Weekly Scrap #213 - Frank Leeb, Cornerstones of Leadership

Corley: My guest tonight is Lieutenant Brian Richards. He loves the fire service and he has a passion for understanding what makes people tick. I have enjoyed my conversation with him every time that we have been able to meet and cuss and discuss, and I look forward to our conversation this evening. My brother, Brian Richards, it is my honor to have you on the scrap for episode two one two. Welcome, my brother. Brian Richards: Thank you. It's an absolute honor to be here. There's so many incredible instructors that have come before me, mentors, people that I've traveled all over the country to see, and to be able to sit on that same stage is It's incredible. So thank you. Corley: And right out the gate, man, we were talking a little bit before off camera, so I'm gonna lead off with it. Actually, how we first met. Um Uh I still remember it to this day was the uh social we had at the conference we had in Oklahoma where you came down from Wisconsin and it was like uh yeah go ahead. Brian Richards: So I remember being down there and you were this just big like huge dude to me. Like he's the one running this training company. He set all this up. He brings all these people in, all these instructors that I look up to, I'm reading their books, I'm watching their videos, I'm taking every iota information I can get from them. Like he's right here, like he's over there. And I thought, you know, if there's gonna be anything I can do I gotta be able to say that I bought him a Modello. I come up to you and I give you a Medello. I said, hey Chief, thank you for everything. I just wanted to be able to say that I bought you Modello I hand it to you and I turn around I go walk away and you're like hey man like oh sit stick around like where are you from who are you what like what's your deal And I just remember this moment of just awe, like, holy cow, this huge instructor, this great guy. And he just wants to talk to some just random fireman from Wisconsin. And we ended up having a great conversation, as you said, talked about a lot of different things, had a couple different beers But it was so profound to me, and I alluded to this before we started this that really taught me something about the fire service that I didn't really already know.

Brian Richards: And it was, we're all just firemen. Yeah. And you can never let your head get too big and think, you know, I'm better than someone else. Absolutely not. Like everybody's got their own experiences, everybody comes from a different cut, and everybody's got a different opportunity. And it really made me realize that when I go to these conferences, you know, put yourself out there Have a conversation. You never know who you're gonna talk to. You never know what you're gonna learn. Corley: The teamwork aspect. Because you touched on the hard work, you touched on the respect. I want to hear the teamwork aspect, which is all tied together, I know, and I realize, but Brian Richards: Yeah, and so we kind of touched on it. I think part of helping them understand teamwork is you gotta be able to communicate and you gotta be able to bond. And I think one of the ways that you kind of do that is You remind them that you're not everything. So we just had a training recently, and the first thing I did when I got to the training house is I looked at which mannequins we were using. I'm like, nope, I'm changing the curriculum right now because I'm not doing another training with a 15 pound mannequin and one of them that's rigid and heavy, but it doesn't move like a human. So the next thing I did is I threw myself, um, someone else who'd been through the training previously. down and it completely changed how our training day went. And it made people realize that, oh hey, I can't pick up the adult hose mannequin that weighs 50 pounds and just toss them out the front door like I'm used to, it takes a team. And it doesn't just take a team, it takes that coordination. Recently I was able to be at Red Underfire, IFSI And one of the evolutions we were doing was the Nance drill. And it was a pretty big instructor. So I had two guys down in the hole, the instructor, six guys at the top of the hole, and we're doing ready, ready go with them There's no time for you to be special, for you to be unique in that. We are all the exact same thing. Um you're a meat piston at that point, which is probably gonna be the defining quote of this entire scrap that I just said meat piston.

Brian Richards: Um I can already feel the memes being made in my firehouse of that one. Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number two, one, three. My guest tonight needs no introduction He is the deputy assistant chief, the chief of safety for the FDNY. His previous staff positions include Chief of Training, Chief of the Fire Academy He has degrees. He's got bachelor's, masters, post-naval, naval postgraduate school. Frank has been a member of the FDNY since 1992. He's also been a member of the East Farmingdale Fire Department since 1983. He has served as an advisory panel member for UL, FSRI, and is a principal on the NFBA technical committees 420, 1585, 1710. Sitting here and listing this man's accomplishments. And a big reason we are talking today is because besides all of his past uh accolades and everything else. He decided to add another uh let's just call it best-selling author to the to the stack. And so uh there we go. It's my absolute pleasure to have you on as the guest of Weekly Scrap 213. Welcome my friend Chief Frank Leib. Frank Lieb: My brother, thank you for having me on. Um it's a pleasure to be with you and talk with you. Any anytime I get to talk with Callie Moore is a good time

Corley: Awesome, brother. Is there anything I missed? Anything you would like to add to the introduction? Frank Lieb: No, let's get going, man. But I Just you said uh, you know, author and uh it's on Amazon, it's um the best seller in I think four currently four different categories. I mean it's just in leadership and training and firefighting. It's just in new releases. It's just humbling, just humbling. And that's just people that are supporting me and my message. That's not even that's a leap of faith that it's you know, there's hardly any reviews. There's only two reviews on the book so far. And um so that's humbling, right? That uh that people have faith in that what I'm writing is is worth buying and and supporting and I never ever take take that lightly that people are spending their hard earned money to to read what we have to to you know to to what you or what I have to say. And I know I know you feel the same because we've had that conversation Corley: Oh, absolutely, brother. And I will say the testament to uh the lifetime of work, you know, the lifetime of relationships and the network and and uh everything that you've invested into the job. Uh it's it's well deserved. The accolades and the the best-selling title, man. Well deserved. Well, thank you. Audience, get your questions primed and ready for Frank and myself. We're gonna have some fun this evening. Uh quick announcements. First and foremost, we are giving away three copies of Cornerstones of Leadership during the scrap tonight. Three copies given away during the scrap tonight, and then two more copies in the vigilante after party The scrap after party. So if you want to be in on the drawing, it's real simple. Here's how you do it. In the chat, wherever you're watching, all you have to do is type in Sam, I want Frank's book. If you type Sam, I want Frank's book, then Sam will add you to the drawing, which we'll be doing at the end of the show for all three books. So type it in there, Sam. I want Frank's book. And you are automatically entered into the wheel of wheel of luck to see if you get a copy of Frank Leib's book from the scrap here. You'll have to find him to get him to sign it and say this is one of the scrap copies.

Corley: So that's how you get in, and I'll announce it throughout the show. Sam, I want Frank's book. Type it in the chat. Sam will add you to the drawing. Uh, and there's three copies going to be given away at the end, and then two in the scrap after party. So that takes care of that. So let's do the sponsors. So that we can get on with the scrap. And of course, the original sponsor, the OG sponsor of the scrap, Keyhoes, you can check them out online at Keyhose. com and follow them on Facebook. Affordable drill towers. Home of the affordable drill tower and the affordable standpipe prop. It is firefighter owned and operated. You can pump and roll using the affordable standpipe prop. The affordable standpipe pop fits through most standpipe theory and then you can roll it into the parking lot and pump. It comes with six standpipe valves that can be upgraded to PRVs or customized to what you have in your jurisdiction. Call Steve 844-55TOR or drop an email to info at affordable drilltower. com. Firefighter safety and accountability starts. with being able to quickly find and identify individual firefighters operating on the fire ground. Identifier safety combines the best in photoluminescent materials for durable firefighter identification solutions that can glow for up to 20 hours with no switches or batteries Which means being able to rapidly identify firefighters by name, unit, or assignment, even under hot conditions. Firefighter created, owned, and operated, identifier safety is is the home for all of your on-scene identification needs. Identifiersafety. com and finally blue collar fireman For the firemen who quit the citizens first, find them at bluecollarfiremen. com and on all social media at blue collar firemen. And with that, we're officially through the sponsors. We're officially into scrap number 213 with Frank Lee. And I'm ready and excited to get it kicked off. I'm reading some. Let's get it going. I got Frank's book, but how did he come up with the idea for becoming an author? That's the first question coming at you from Joe Driver. I'm not even getting to all uh questions yet. I'm just I'm trying to read it.

Frank Lieb: I don't I can't see the comments, by the way So you'll have to you'll have to feed them all to me because I can't see any of them. But thanks, Joe. I appreciate the uh the softball. And by the way, all the copies that you have are already signed So that's awesome. Corley: I didn't even open I only I only read mine. I didn't even open those others. So that's perfect. That's perfect. Frank Lieb: Yeah, sign them all. That way, you know, um when You give them out, it's uh they they got it. And of but of course they see me at a show somewhere, I want them to come up and say hello, right? Um for sure. But um so How did I get the idea for for the book? Was that his question? That was the question. Also, um I got a phone call from Pete Matthews the editor-in-chief of Firehouse magazine. And he told me I'd like you to be the keynote for Firehouse Expo. And he says, I'd like you to speak about training, teamwork. And uh mentorship. I said, you know, all right. He said the rest is up to you. I'm thinking, do we really need that in the fire service? And And um, you know, I you know, I go around, I teach, and uh, and I see in the FDNY, so in the FDNY, right, I mean leadership is ingrained in our DNA. I'm surrounded by so many great bosses and we we mentor and and train. It's just it's just something that's natural. We don't we rarely have terrible bosses. Um but what I've quickly realized the more I talk to people is that um that's not the way it is every place, right? There's plenty of places that are that um uh that people tell me that they don't work for good bosses. And that, you know, this is that this is a needed topic. And to be honest with you, it was after I wrote the keynote, which was, you know, based on my experience and my beliefs. It was so many people that came up to me that they said you the message resonated with with me. And I sent it to my chief. And then well they, you know, I've I've emailed it to my chief every day for the past week, hoping he'll watch it and learn.

Frank Lieb: And then I had people that were telling me that I got to turn the keynote into a book. And, you know, people like Sarah Jenki was pretty early on telling me I gotta turn it into a book. And she's, you know, the research that she does, you know, I become good friends with her and uh, you know, people like Jeff Burgess. And then I talked to Chris Stewart out of Phoenix, you know, and um he's a good friend of mine and he's like man you gotta make that into a into a book and he he sends me the make your bed speech from admiral m admiral uh uh mcgraven And I listened to it. It's like 23 minutes long. I'm like, this is really good. And then he follows that up by sending me a couple of podcasts. He sends me the um a link to the book. I read the book. I listen to these podcasts. I'm like, man, all right, now I see what he's I saw a pathway forward to writing a book on it. And um And that was really where where it came from. And it and it quickly became a labor of love and telling the stories and um What I love most about the book is that it's fire stories that tell you leadership lessons, but it's really not the It's it's really the soft skills. It's not the hard skills. I'm not teaching you how to force a door. Um I'm not teaching you how to stretch a hose line in this, but it's all those soft skills. Because think about how many times in in in your career and and certainly I've had this plenty of times in my career where you say that officer is the complete package if they only knew how to deliver the message if they only knew how to communicate with people if they only had people skills Um and that's what this book is about. It's about those skills. It's about how to deal with people that you know you don't always have to be a hammer. Absolutely. Showing empathy and inclusion and just so many of the different things. And you know, um, and I've had so many great people that I've learned from. Um, I'm a learning sponge. To this day, I'm constantly trying to learn and listen.

Frank Lieb: And and you know, one of the early advices that I got from, you know, one of my captains, Captain Gene McGowan, was, you know, uh read something fire-related every day, every tour. And nowadays with you know with your scrap and and and other podcasts that are out there and uh audiobooks and books there's so much and youtube there's so much information It's so easy to stay current and to learn, right? And you know what? I'll use a quote that's from another awesome book, The Nine L's. Where it talks about, you know, if you read something one hour a day, that you'll quickly become one of the leaders in your field. And when I remember when I'm reading, I was reading that book and I'm thinking, I've been doing that for 31 years. I have, with the exception of a couple of months after September 11th I read or listen to something fire related every single day. So you said it takes a couple of years to be um at the top of your game. Well, I've been doing it for a very long time, and I know you do it for a very long time. You know, the I I I've seen how fast you go through books. I mean you devour them. But, you know, I say any good any good leader really is engaged to the point where you recognize that you don't have all the answers, your organization doesn't have all the answers. And reading from other books, other leadership books, others outside your profession, my goodness, the amount that you could learn from other people instead of reinventing the wheel. And this is, you know My version of that would uh with a lot of fire stories, right? McRaven uses a lot of military stories. That's that's what he knows. And and I got I got tons of fire stories and and and experiences based on that. Some good, some bad, some sad, some happy. You know, the book really runs the gamut of all those topics.

Corley: Brother, no, and it's it's phenomenal, man. I I want I don't want to get it wrong. 27 chapters, correct? Or 27 basic stories with 127 takeaways If I'm getting my numbers right. And I'm glad I know I'm close, at least. Uh no, it's phenomenal. The stories are phenomenal. The stories carry it. And me and you have had many conversations about the power of stories. So going back to I'm gonna catch you up with the comments because there are a ton A, there's a ton of comments that say Sam, I want Frank's book over and over and over. So there's there's hundreds of those already. Frank Lieb: Uh standing. Corley: Sam, I want Frank's book. That seems to be the overall theme here. I mean, I would like Frank's book, please. I'm gonna try and get you to turn it down one more time, Chief, if as long as you can still hear me, because we're getting an echo. Try to get as low as you can as low as you can, but still hear me. All right All right, let's try that. I'm checking. I'm checking. I'm checking. Can you hear me? Frank Lieb: I hear you. Corley: Okay. That the echo's good. So we'll we'll roll with that All right, I'm getting into this because Joe took my first question. Uh and remember when you got to break my shoes about one million, right? One million. You got to break my shoes and it was fun. I get to break your shoes about best selling, man. It's awesome It's one of the greatest things in the world when you get to uh do that to a friend, man. It is a great feeling. It's payback. That's why I say it. Your favorite Go ahead.

Frank Lieb: Success by itself isn't success, right? Success with your friends and and others. I mean, and you know, um you um, you know, for the viewers that don't know, and I'm I'm sure they don't uh No, at this point, but um Cauley was one of the um one of the early editors of the book and had um a lot of insightful suggestions that really strengthened the book and I'm super appreciative um of that he's uh he has an amazing way with words which I know you all know that um and on several chapters uh he really made them worthy of of keeping them or putting them in the book. So um and I know you keep telling me, right? This isn't this isn't about you, it's about the guest, but you know what? Yeah, it is about you as well, right? And you also uh you also are um an author of one-third of one of the chapters Corley: as well which we'll talk about that later but absolutely a humble thank you thank no and i i was humbled and very proud to be allowed to see the book before everybody else first of all that was my ulterior motive was to get to read it before everyone else And then I got to give suggestions, which some of them you took and some of them you threw out. And that's great. And I really loved uh I'm telling you this. Uh you have a gift, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, where I can Uh there's a lot of people I couldn't say the things I said about their book because they don't have the humility to hear it. Does that make sense?

Frank Lieb: And and you It does, but and and again, that's the value right of um of driver Joe. That's the value of other people that I intentionally surround myself. One of the later editors of the book um was Chris Belavita. He was my thesis advisor. Nice. And he there were times I thought he took pleasure in telling me I that my writing sucks. Some of my first assignments that he would edit when I was going for my master's was I was starting to question if I belonged in the program. But you know that's what makes you that's what makes you better, right? So yeah, um the high achievers, the people that strive to be better, they need and want a high bar Um, I want a high bar. I don't want to no one if if you're listening to the scrap, you're you don't want a bar so low you're tripping on it. You want a high bar so you can could excel make me better at my profession whatever that profession is you could be a volunteer firefighter and you're and you have a day job the idea is do something to make me better whether it's as a firefighter or in my career And if you're a firefighter and that's your career, it's an officer that you show you care for your people by setting a bar for your for your people. Because even the even the underachievers, even the slugs want some type of bar. Right, even even they, you know, plus we gotta we gotta hold those folks um accountable. But it's all about making sure that we are giving enough opportunity for growth for our high achievement For all people that want to be that want to be better. And that doesn't mean they want to promote. It just means they want to be the best at their position, whatever their position is. Because we don't need everybody to promote. We need fantastic firefighters. We need fantastic nozzle firefighters. whatever the position is um but it's all about owning owning your space whatever space that is that you that you're most comfortable in and if you promote that's great

Corley: Beautiful. It could not be said better, man. I'm writing down timestamps already. It's so good, man. Uh Got mine today already halfway through it great read that comes from Scotty Harris. I'm trying to catch you up on, but there's so many people uh all right another question coming from the audience. This one's off the book, but uh I'm going to throw it at you and we can go with it. We can just roll with them. And we'll get back to the book. Chief, what have you found works best to get poor performers to hold the standard besides progressive discipline? Frank Lieb: So a hot stove um burns everybody the same, right? So if the if the pot is red hot, if the stove is glowing, well that's gonna burn and it doesn't matter who you are, it's gonna burn. So you must treat all of your people when it comes to discipline, you must treat your people equally. But in in my career I have gotten more success by reasoning with the people and telling them and explaining to them that we are only as strong as our weakest link. And fire does not discriminate. And um you don't have to look far to see that when the A weak link on the fire ground has an oversized impact and can injure or kill firefighters. And we see we see well-trained firefighters, right? After a line of duty death, so often we hear that, oh my God, that firefighter was was into the job.

Corley: Right. Frank Lieb: Right? But and when you read the fatal fire reports Oftentimes the contribu the most the most heaviest contributing factors were not related to that firefighter. It was related to another action that was taken somewhere else on the fire ground. So we owe it, we owe it to our high achievers to hold everybody accountable for a minimum standard. And the higher that minimum standard, the better that is, the safer that is for everybody, both firefighters and the occupants that we're sworn to protect. So protect your high achievers by making sure that your un your underachievers step up their game and contribute the way they need to contribute. It's that simple. And you know there's the there's ways that you can um motivate people uh without without being without having to be a disciplinary because I've never been one to um to have to discipline um all that much. I've been able to get the slugs to to at least perform to a minimal level. And I haven't had that many slugs either, which is helpful Corley: Right. No, I and uh and and a lot of that is a testament to the leadership. Uh uh, you know, no bad teams only bad leaders, and that goes the other way too. No good teams just good leaders. And um I want to say I feel like a bobblehead whenever you're talking. So I'm like, yeah, this is I feel I'm just like, yes. I was looking at it going, oh, but I love it, man. I love what you're saying, man. And so does the audience As they say, uh Joe Driver says, I don't raise the bar, I am the bar, but he has a lot of emojis with it. Uh yeah, well, I mean, listen, he he is.

Frank Lieb: So the chapter that talks about Joe um was initially only about Joe. And and I sent it to him and he's like, um, so he was serious, right? So he called me Chief. Chief. You gotta change the chapter. You can't have a chapter just about me. There's so many good people that are doing similar things. There's so many other drivers. There's so many other people. And um, but that's that's Joe's character, right? Right? If you know Joe is to absolutely love Joe I mean when you meet Joe, you connect with him immediat immediately. You feel like he's been your best friend forever. Corley: Oh, there's no doubt. Frank Lieb: I mean, that's just how you are, right? I I saw um Steve Robinson in in Columbus this past week and he's like we are we are like the same person and uh we connected right away and like I get that right because I'm I'm fortunate um to work to work with Joe um every day, right? And um and he just gets it, right? I mean, um and it's funny today on our ride to and from work We spoke for about 10 minutes and then I was working. And, you know, he just takes care of everything. Throughout the day, we gotta, Chief, we gotta be somewhere. Well, this is whatever it is, right? He's just um Yeah, listen, he's just um he's just that guy.

Corley: So yeah, he is the bar. I agree. Oh, and it's a great chapter. It talks about all of the driver joes You know, and like he said. And I and I think his his his his call where he said, Chief, you gotta change it. Again, you had the humility to listen to him, but it was great advice from a great person because it turned it into one of my favorite chapters and leads me to one of my questions for you. Which is and I know this is like a loaded question, but your favorite chapter in the book and why? You know Oh man. I know. Frank Lieb: So that so that's like asking me what's my favorite company, right? Or what's my favorite child? Corley: Child or kid. Yeah, that's where I was going. Frank Lieb: There's so many I like, you know, and um uh Dina Alley was texting with me earlier um some of the comments she's getting because I have a chapter that I mentioned her and and her um her book that'll be released next year, um Light in the Darkness and it's it references the name of the book in the chapter and talks about it. And um I really like that chapter a lot. The um the chapter where I talk about um inclusivity. Uh I really like that one a lot. I really like um I really like the one uh where I talk about how I felt after the the plane crash in the in the Rockaways. Um and I really like that because that's deeply emotional still to this day to me. Um I really like the chapter where I talk about the actions of the brothers and sisters at the Twin Pox fire because I'm immensely proud of of what they did. Um I I I love the chapter about Hurricane Harvey because I I I met um Um, I met Gabe uh and and the story and what he's become in his career. Um And I love the chapter where I was the mascot hot dog just because it's a fun chapter. And, you know, I could go on, I could name every chapter and why I love them, right? Um I love the early chapters about the the lifelong mentors that that I had in the volunteer fire service and what the and what the volunteer fire service still means to me today.

Frank Lieb: My goodness, I guess I could go No, no, I could I can name a reason why I love every chapter. Corley: I knew it was a loaded question when I loaded it in there, but Yeah. Frank Lieb: And so there were three chapters that that, as you know, right? Because uh one of the chapters that didn't make the final cut. You said it doesn't belong. Um and it's no longer in the book. Or um you know and several people said well that's okay especially my uh um uh uh my publisher and editor um has told me that'll be for the book you know for the next book the next book you know it's not wasted and you've said that as well so I don't know about that um I will say it's a it's a lot of work because you want the book to be right. Right. So um, but I am I am proud of it. I'm proud of the final result. Oh brother. Corley: I got it. You sent it to me and uh the fire when it was done, you know, you were you were heading to firehouse, but you sent me a copy and it came in early and I was on duty and I called you. Because I was so I mean here it is right here so Next to me. But yeah. And of course I got my personalized message from the chief. But uh I was like, man, dude, this turned out so good looking. Like your your editor, your your publisher is top-notch. Making you look good.

Frank Lieb: Yeah, he he does. And like everything, um, it's surrounding yourself with with good people that you know that that that get the job done, right? And um uh and I tell you what, um I loved I loved it when so your wife Amanda um uh texted uh myself and my wife the pitches of you when she's like, the book came in the mail, I got in the car, and I immediately took it down to the station. Brian Richards: She took it down to the station. Yeah. Frank Lieb: Like, that's freaking awesome. You know, we were both together when we got that um when we got that text And it's just you guys are freaking awesome. And the excitement that that that she showed and then and then you did and seeing the the pictures and then after she left the firehouse you you immediately called me up like that's why I say sharing in in these moments and the success they They're not to be done by yourself, right? It's having a sub it's having friends and a support network around you that, you know, um That celebrating with everybody is is is certainly better than celebrating alone. And nobody achieves these these things by themselves, right? It doesn't matter on the fire ground or whether you're writing a book. It's just this wasn't I I didn't do this alone, my goodness. I had so many people um that that helped me out.

Corley: Now you did the lion share, you did that that that the hard work, but I get w I I know what you're saying exactly. Andrew Faskins has a follow-up, which is writ right in line with the favorite. It was what was the chapter, what chapter was the hardest and or longest for you to write Frank Lieb: The hardest chapter to write was where I talk about my friend Chris. And um Chris um Chris took his life. And um that was hard because um really because it was determining how much I wanted to say or or not say about that honestly right is how um you know and I wound up being very open about it right because um I I do think that it's very important that um that leaders in our profession and even outside of our profession, it doesn't matter what you do, I think it's important for people to um to to speak about that and really show show a sense of vulnerability, right? And um I'm human. I put my pants on the the the same exact way every other human does. The way every I put my bunker gear on the same way every other firefighter puts their bunker gear on You know, um, we are truly all in this um together. And if if it can help one person, if it can help two people, and Um, you know, and again, I I reached out to people about that to to make sure that I was that I was getting it right. Right. And um You know, and I I was mostly there, I was mostly correct, but there were certain uh sentences that I needed to put or not put, or but um Yeah, but I'm I'm very happy. That's a great follow-up question. I'll tell you what, the last time the questions that the um that the audience had were were really top notch and uh I knew they wouldn't disappoint this time. Either.

Corley: I tell you the the the scrappers are the best to throw in good. I mean I haven't even got to the outside the book questions yet. They're still they're stacking up. Uh there are some good questions coming at you But I want to focus on the book, especially at the first half as we talk. And you mentioned it. No one does this alone. Uh you mentioned that. You know what I'm saying? And which makes me segue right into Metal Day. Cause that was uh One of it probably is my favorite chapter in the book for reasons of of being able to go there and be there with you this year with my son and your son and Chief Ike and Chief Ike's son. You know, just that I don't know if there'll ever be another experience like that for me in a fire service setting to be able to go and experience uh what I got to experience and be a part of. Thanks to you. uh and the invitation and then to do to be able to share that with my son who is who's two years on the job uh was just at but like you said the overall theme of that day for me was yeah, this is the person winning the award. And then we're honoring them, but they didn't do it alone. You know, and it's all about uh they're the teamwork, the esprit de cours, the tradition, the camaraderie. Yeah, yeah.

Frank Lieb: And you were there, right? So you you lived metal day, right? So um Um and um you know we had a long day, right? Because we weren't satisfied with just going, you know, we went to Metal Day, then we went to the Queen's correlation, the party afterwards, right? But that wasn't enough. Then we had to head up to the Bronx because it matters. Because um for me in my position It matters. It matters greatly to me because I always cared when when you see when you see staff chiefs or or higher level chiefs come and they show up and they're engaged and they're celebrating just as hard with you That matters. And I always loved seeing that. And I've had great mentors that have always showed up at um at all the events. And that's half Half of the battle is just showing up. I tell people you don't even have to stay all night long. Just show up. And so we celebrate the accomplishment of the individual But boy, do we celebrate it as a team because the FDY procedures and firefighting procedures anywhere really, they are written because they fundamentally value teamwork with the individual responsible to execute the assignment, right? As part of that team. Again, if one rogue firefighter does something wrong on a fire ground That can have an impact on that team. So we're a team, and it's that team that enables that individual to perform at an exceptionally high level. And even if he's off duty, even if he or she is off duty and they come across a burning structure, Somebody taught him what to do. There is always a team standing behind a firefighter. It doesn't matter. And that's the same when you're writing a book. And that the Metal Day celebration, we started in Queens. My good friend Joe Greco from Ladder 117. There's a picture of him in the book. He got a medal at Metal Day. He's also in my volunteer fire department. I knew many people that were getting medals in Queens. And then we had to get up to the Bronx because we knew that 48 engine and 56 six truck um and rescue three the the first special unit the first engine and the first truck at the twin parks fire they had gotten company medals we knew that they were there celebrating And we needed to go there.

Frank Lieb: And we needed to make sure that we were celebrating with them. Another picture that's in the book is is a picture with Dave Werda, who was the. um the officer of engine 48 uh at the twin parks fire and and as a picture him uh with me in that book as well it's It's being there for your people and celebrating. And, you know, Dave, yesterday, he shot me a text and it was a picture of the book saying he can't he can't wait to read it. Right. You know, I didn't even have a chance to to even get up to the Bronx or tell him, you know, at at that point when he sent me that text, I don't know if he even opened the cover of the book yet, if he even knows that I speak about him in the book, or if he even knows that there's a photo of him. in the book but it's a it's valuing and always appreciating your people and your team but surround yourself with those people because guess what underperformer slugs they don't want to transfer to my companies Right, you see those officers that you're like, you know, you see who there's a line of people who want to go to their company and they're high achievers. Right. Right. And that's why that that keeps that training lineage that that uh that company operating at that high level, regardless of whether they're going to a lot, a lot of fires or not. Because It's nice, right? It helps. It helps if you're going to fires to hone your skills and and and that's the test, right? But um whether you go to fires or not is certainly not the only um indicator of a good company. And it's not even the biggest indicator of a good company. Having good quality firefighters, having good quality leadership, firefighters that that hang out and do things outside the firehouse that build up that that team that team that you have that unbreakable bond um that we have and again that's not something that's unique to the to the fire service. Tomorrow night, my my daughter at her job, they play, they have a softball league that it's all intramurals within it. And I'm going to go watch her play tomorrow night And it's all people that that are playing.

Frank Lieb: That is an internal league. The purpose of that is to build that, right? Is to build that team, that culture that you want within your organization. And again, that trans that transcends the fire service. Corley: Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautifully stated, ma'am. And and uh and you said it best, uh none of us are as good as all of us, and it's just so strong. And the chapter on Metal Day really captures it. And I remember sitting in the stands and having this conversation with you saying, how do you capture this and take it back to suburbia? You know, and um and even My my short third of a chapter, which we'll talk about at some point, uh that's my point of it. Because I love the back of your book. And it's it's the theme of the front of the book. And it's that I love it, brother. This book will be about the an insert the way. How do you get that back there? Frank Lieb: Yeah, so for me, it is the FDNY way, right? But it's also the EFFD, the East Farmandale Fire Department way. It's the Frank Lieb way. Right. Right? Because there's personal accountability. And it's whatever else you want it to be Right? It's your squad 270 way. It's my engine 76 way. It's my Elmhurst Eagle way. There's so many different ways because we We simply just we we can't just only blame poor leadership, right? We have to have a personal responsibility and accountability to yourself And then organically, people that are like-minded will gravitate to you, right? You know, we hit it off immediately when we met. We were like-minded, right? Um, and the same, you know, with Chief Ike and with so many other people you meet them and immediately you get it because you're you're you're cut from the same cloth, right? And then you start surrounding yourself with similar people to the degree that you can. Smaller organizations, it's a little bit harder, I understand. that right sure um uh so you look outside your organization a little bit for that but it's about making sure that you know accountability starts with you and then we could organically grow it and hopefully Leadership will get that. And again, for me, it was, hey, we need those soft skills that torpedo so many So many great leaders or so many good leaders would be exceptional leaders, right?

Frank Lieb: They'd be on the pedestal type leaders if they only knew how to handle the people they work with. You know, and it's really it's the same skills. I treat my son, especially when they were younger, I I treat my son differently than I treat my daughter Corley: Right. Frank Lieb: I mean the the when I'm when I'm disciplining them or explaining stuff to them, that's just the way it is. Um and likewise you you every firefighter should not or every employee um should not be treated um you know, there's different there's different ways to to deal with different people. And that's based on their personalities. I mean, um there's all different personality traits and we have uh when we go to FOMI, our fire officers management institute, a partnership directly with Columbia University um and General Electric. One of the things they do is you do a personality trait to determine what kind of person you are. Corley: Right. Frank Lieb: So are you a are you Are you amicable? Are you a driver? You know, all these different, these four different quadrants and see who, what, what are the best combinations of it. So you just you rate how you feel you are and you have to send it to 15 coworkers and they rate how you are. And you see the people in the class, like you know who the people are that know how where they what type of person they are. And then you see the other people that they're clueless. Like they have no idea that they don't have people Right? Yes. It's interesting to see that. So self-reflection and and self-awareness is so important for a leader that And I think, you know, being able to take criticism when it's, you know, criticism or um or or friendly advice or, you know, Like like you did with the book, right? Where you say, hey, what do you think of of this? Like I need you to tell me. I need you to be truthful. Right. That's how that's how we get better. That's what makes the book better. I would never say like because you kept at first I I I know I want to make sure you take this the right way. I'm like, if you say that one more time, I said what you're telling me isn't pissing me off. You keep telling me that is what's pissing me off

Corley: No, you had to you had to have that conversation with me about four times before it finally sunk in that I could just be brutally candid and honest with you That's what you were asking. No, absolutely. Frank Lieb: No. Hey, I gotta do a quick shout out. Um my wife is um is video Visiting her family um in Denver, Colorado. Okay. Um and I absolutely love her family. And she just sent me a a picture of them watching it on the TV. So they are tuned into the scrap tonight watching it. So Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's freaking awesome. Corley: That's beautiful. I love it, man. I absolutely love it. Representing Colorado. Uh okay, I'm gonna get to some and and any more any I I I actually need to pull up my own notes before I get just to audience questions here, although they're throwing some great questions. Um What are some yeah I gotta copy I gotta copy the the questions hold on john and if you if you I if I if you make sure you don't be afraid to post your question more than once so I can make sure and see it as we go through Um okay. Got my notes. I kind of got my notes here. Uh what was surprised I do want to ask you this. What has surprised you most? Because this book's been out for I don't know the exact date it released, but what has surprised you most? Since you released the book? Like what's what's the thing that's uh you weren't expecting the overwhelming positive versus

Frank Lieb: response the just uh you know y you never you don't you don't know if anybody's gonna support you you know what you're doing right I mean there's plenty of people in the fire service that that put out books and Um and they're worthy of they're worthy of selling five million copies and they don't, right? So you really don't know. And especially early on, you're relying on your reputation or or other people putting putting something out. And um I'm just humbled by that. And now what's really in the last two days is um you know people are uh tagging cornerstones of leadership and and and me in the book um and they're they're saying different parts that they that they love about the book or that they you know uh Andy Starnes you know he's he he posted he's halfway through the book and he loves it. I mean it's just um You know, so many other comments like that that it's just uh it's just been it's a humbling experience, right? And and and you know that, right? Because um I I love what I do. I love the fire service. I love the people in the fire service. Um I love the people I work with. Um and you know it's It matters, right? So to have so to have a book like this, a labor of love, which is um a lot of a lot of stories, like I mentioned earlier, a lot of difficult stories to to talk about but then necessary stories. That's how we push the fire service forward, right? We keep keep pushing forward, right? And so many of these things are important messages. Uh at at Firehouse Expo where I was doing book signings. I mean it was it was humbling. People are people coming up and and and telling you that I've been, you know, I've been reading about you and reading your um what you put out. I've watched your podcasts and you're a mentor, you've been a mentor of me for the, you know For the past 10 years or the past five years, and I'm I'm like, uh, you know, and I start reflecting back and I think about the people inside and outside my organization that I never even knew. And I I understand I understand that. I just never I guess I never connected the dots that I too have all of those people.

Frank Lieb: Um, you know, I'm just used to having so many people inside my organization because I'm such a large organization that I've had some incredible leaders in my career that I've worked for and and um And under and and occasionally I've gotten to a point where I've been a higher rank and I've been fortunate to bring him into my team. I mean think about that. Someone that is legendary in your organization that you've always looked up to And they decided that they weren't going to promote anymore. And now they're you bring them in as part of your team. Right. There's almost nothing better than that. Corley: Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. Frank Lieb: I mean, it's just um the gratitude I have for those people. And I'm like, and I tell them, and I I spoke to, you know, one of those guys, Brian Fink. um who retired from my my job. I spoke to him earlier, like the impact that he's had, right? And he's a guy, he's not even mentioned in the book. And he's had such an impact in in my career. He's in one of the photos of the of the 2022 Bureau of Training photos. Um, because he usually tells me I'll kill you if you make me interview. Because we would have I'd want him to do videos and different things and he would never ever want to be the center of attention. I'd be like, hey Brian, I want you to go do this interview view for me and the next thing you know he'd be leaving he'd leave early you take a half a day so he wouldn't so he wouldn't have to do that but the impact that that someone like that has had on my career um and you simply There's not enough chapters in the book to talk about all of the people within my own organization. that that I I can write a leadership lesson on so many of them. Brian Fink is certainly one of them that's that's that's not in the book. I could have wrote an entire chapter on on Jim Yearsley, you know, my buddy who just retired. But him and Mark Feran, amazing individuals. They're the the last two takeaways are dedicated to them. Right. So there's five takeaways per chapter, which comes out to 125. So we say there's 125. And then spoiler alert, right, on the last page, we say we're giving you two extra dedicated to these two guys.

Corley: Nice. Frank Lieb: Right. So when when I showed Jim Yasley when I gave him the uh the book a couple of days ago, I opened up to that page Because I wanted to make sure I saw his reaction because I wanted him to know how much I care about him and how much he's had an impact in me. Right. And and I didn't talk about him um in other parts of the book. But I I I could write a book about him. You know? Corley: Yeah. No, it's powerful. Frank Lieb: And in the book it says that, right? That I'm blessed to have so many different and people that have impacted me. Um and that's because of the other, you know, learn something from everybody you meet. The other piece of advice I got from Gene McGowan. Sometimes it's what not to do. But boy, I learned so much of what to do from so many from so many great people. Brian Fink being one of them, Jim Yearsley being one of them. Talked about Mark Ferrari and so there's so many others um that you could talk about just within my organization. And then there's plenty of them outside my organization. Ray McCormick, another guy, you know, um what he's done, you know, he helped us with our engine document while he was going out the door into retirement, right? A legacy project. And I don't I don't mention writing the book at all. Um, but he's another, you know, he's another guy that, yeah, man, you've had a great impact and he continues to impact the the fire service. I mean it's um and these are guys that I worked with right at the end of his career worked for me at the Bureau of Training. Wow. Mike Chambo worked for me, works for me at the works for me at the Bureau of Training. I mean, I get to see these guys and interact with them every single day. Any clep, you know, like um where you say, you know, I remember the engine committee when we sat down and we were when we were evaluating the engine. document and I basically we formed the committee of the five or six people and I sat down with them and we're having a conversation. I'm like, man, this is like the murderous row of engine ops Right. And no doubt.

Frank Lieb: No doubt. I'm like, guys, I got stuff I gotta do. You know, I got people waiting in meetings, and I was just blowing off all my meetings because we're sitting there and we're talking engine tactics You know, and they're just dropping nugget after nugget after nugget. And I'm like, this is it, man. Like, I don't want to get up with this thing. Doesn't get any better than this. I sat there until lunchtime. Until I think it was Driver Joe that came and he's like, hey Chief, like, you know, it's not all fun and games, bro. Brian Richards: It's beautiful. Frank Lieb: I said yes it is when you're with these guys, but it's it's the it's part of the FDNYW, right? Our people want to give back. We wanna, you know, Timmy Clett, Ray McCormick These guys make they leave the job better than they found it. Brian Fink, Tom Richardson, Rich Bladys. I mean these guys leave the organization better. If you they bleed after the NY Red It's just, you know, you never you never leave the FDNY. You retire, but you are always, you are always part of the FDNY family. I mean it's just um and these guys I'll talk to them uh you know they'll call up and they want hey what did you hear about this or what do you think of this Uh that's just common. I mean and it's thank God that that that we have a culture like that where everybody that you really you could retire and go on to do whatever or do nothing, but you're still part you're still part of uh of what we're doing with the D and why.

Corley: Right on, dude. I love it, man. I love it. Okay. I got I got lots of questions. We're already we're already pushing on an hour, and I got lots of questions. No, it's awesome. Well, we're not going to midnight tonight. No, okay. Frank Lieb: Okay. I stayed on to the very end when you know for scrap 200 with uh with Chief Ike and I'm like I was wiped out by the time my head hurt And then by the next the next morning now I'm going to work and I'm like, I'm exhausted. I called him up. I'm like, bro, that's ridiculous. Corley: No, yeah. No, I won't I won't subject you to that. That's a special uh But I have questions coming at you from the audience. Are you ready? Brian Richards: I'm ready. Corley: Todd Edwards says, how does the FDNY keep their traditions alive in today's society challenges? Frank Lieb: Well, so that's a really good question. Um, well, so um culture in a fire department is critically important, right? And that culture has to be a good culture. Um necessary modifying some of the stuff that you look back and you say you know what that probably really wasn't part of the culture Um and um you'll never hear me say that the culture in the FDNY um is bad or or you know that that's that's not it. Does it need modification at times? Yes. Um because That's necessary. It's like weed in the garden. We have to make sure that we are cultivating, fertilizing, and taking care of our culture. So it's it's the same with our procedures If we don't monitor our procedures and we and we just continue to allow um uh us our firefighters or or members to do things that are not in our procedures, we then have a normalization deviant Well, we can have a normalization, a deviance in our culture. And we have to be aware of that and make sure that we are doing everything that we can, understanding that 2023 is different than 1970. Right? And societal norms have changed in many, many ways. And the culture just has to has to keep pace with that. But it's it's weeding the garden and getting out and making sure that the the the poor aspects of the culture are replaced with positive aspects of the culture um and i think i think we are uh uh a a stronger a leaner um a more inclusive and better fight apartment when we maintain culture because There's some departments that that I've seen and especially heard about that have toxic cultures because then no one even wants to work for your organization.

Frank Lieb: Right Right? And we don't have that problem. People want to work for the FDNY. And we we continue to evolve, and that's a good thing. Corley: No, it's beautiful. Man, it's a great answer. I love this. Normalization of deviant culture. That's the note I wrote now. Normalization of deviant culture. Play on those words. It's beautiful. That's gonna be an article. Yeah, it's either an article you write it, I'll write it. It's great. Great question from Todd Edwards. I like to call him Robert because of his Tag at FDIC. Brian Schwab wants to know, chief, and I love this question, that's why I'm throwing it at you. I've asked you this question before, and I know it's a it's another loaded question. It's almost a this might be worse than the favorite chapter. What has been your favorite rank company? Rank slash company with the FDNY. Frank Lieb: Oh, so that's a loaded question too, right? No doubt. No doubt. Is anybody asking who Who you know, do I like my son or my daughter better? I mean, come on. Um so uh you know what? Um so here's what I'll say Um and I and I know there's great debate with this, right? With um whether you'd rather be the engine firefighter or whatever, right? But um there is nothing better than having the nozzle. I don't care what anybody says, there's nothing better than having a nozzle Being a new officer is great because you're learning. Being a captain, having your own company, forming everything is great. But The truth is I missed being a battalion chief the most. I think I I was I had amazing firefighters I've had amazing firefighters work for me everywhere. But um I had a a whole big family, Battalion 4. 6 and the surrounding units that that we ran in with in Battalion 49 and 5. 2 like um especially though those battalions and I don't want to leave out the rest of the I mean I can name them all because because we're so blessed to have so many great companies and firefighters in the FDNY but I know that I can walk into a company in any of those three battalions, and I will have a great drill. I will have a great conversation. I will enjoy a nice hot cup of coffee and a great conversation. And at my rank now, if I go to any of those areas And I call up and I let them know and I tell the chief that I'm coming.

Frank Lieb: The chiefs in those battalions are great, that they will join me, that they'll come, even though I don't have to. I'll just tell them, hey, just want to let you know I'm visiting one of your units And the next thing you know, they show up because they're just as into the job, right? And they care. And they they always visit there units because that's what it that's what it's about so I would say I um my favorite position is is definitely there's nothing better than the nozzle um and in the fear of sliding my other companies because they're all great I enjoyed being a battalion chief because I thought I had I was able to have impact uh far beyond my my initial my immediate firefighters Beautiful. Corley: I love the answer. And it was a good and it was a loaded question. There's no, I mean it is a loaded question. And it came from Brian Schwab. I don't know if I actually uh announced the person Uh Zach Swainson wants to know how do you make those you work with better if they don't want to be better and want to maintain the status quo of mediocrity At best. I know you've heard this question many times. We try to hold the line, set examples, and influence those that we can, but what about those that think there's no need to be better? Can we change their mindset?

Frank Lieb: Yeah, so I I think that you can change the you could change the mindset to a certain degree, right? But um for me I just I just keep training with them Right? So if I'm working with a group of firefighters and everybody wants to train but one, like it it wouldn't be allowable for someone to just not join in on the training, right? Right. So you're either gonna you're you're gonna participate and I'm gonna know that you have the talent level or or you're gonna you know you're gonna avoid me or or transfer out of the company but I haven't had If I tell a firefighter I need them to do something, they always do it. Like they're not going to tell me, as an officer, they're not going to tell me no Right? That would be that would be a problem. Now there's a difference between a senior firefighter, right? So if we're doing a basic skill drill, I'm not gonna abuse the senior firefighter. I I know I know his skill Right? So that's a little bit different. But if we're just talking about the firefighter that wants to ride the couch, well, that's not an option Right. So it's just this is what we're doing. And you know, um it's a privilege to be in this company. Um and I would say all offices, the best company that that on the job is the company that you're working in And I don't care what company you're in, if you're if you're an officer, you're a firefighter, that needs to be your mindset. Wherever I was was the best company on the job. And wherever it was, whether I was there for the day, a week, a month, or several years, that was the best company on the job. And I always approached it with that mindset because it wasn't about, it wasn't about the fire duty. And I learned that from early mentors. When people came in and they took me under their wing and they took us, they cared about us and they were there for just a short period of time. But the impact that you could have just being there for a day or or a week is is really It is lifelong the impact that you can have. And I'm telling you because I've had people that have impacted me from early on from maybe short interactions

Corley: No, and you and you articulate that very well in the early chapters of the book. Uh man, it it's so it is very, very powerful when you talk about it So what a great answer for Zach's question. Thank you for the question, Zach. Keep them coming. I'm trying to keep up with them. Frank Lieb: So I'm gonna answer I'm gonna answer a question because somebody sent me a text saying, hey, you gotta answer this question because like I said I don't see the I don't see the text so I guess I don't see the met um the comments so um so I'll So now they're they're going around you, they're texting me. Corley: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Way to let me know. Frank Lieb: From Jackson Abney, who's asking, how does a fire chief translate to fatherhood? Um and I love that question. Oh awesome. I love that question because it's there's a lot of parallels to to that, right? So and I think I mentioned it earlier about um You know, you don't treat, you know, your children the same, right? Um there's times where you have to reason a little bit differently. Uh you can't always be the hammer. You have to have sympathy, compassion, and understanding with your children. You gotta have patience. And let me tell you, especially as a young parent, boy, that's harder. That's harder. to do right it's easy to say hard to hard to implement sometimes especially you're tired um and this times i'm even at work i'm tired or i'm frustrated that Um it's this the firefighter that's trying to get over because what does he do? I'm there for today. Uh and I say no. So he goes and asks the next chief. Right? That's like going and asking mommy after that he said no. Right. So um that's certainly a pretty good parallel to it. But I think it's really just when we talk about those soft skills, the soft skills of parenting. are directly they're they're symbiotic from the fire service from a company officer or chief to parenting um mother or father, right? And I also would say the the other parallel would be that if you're a company officer in in the FDNY, there'll be three lieutenants and a captain And they have to be on the same page, just like the parents have to be on the same page.

Frank Lieb: Right? If there's no candy before before bedtime, well, then there's no candy before bedtime for both parents If right, there's no candy before bedtime for for the three lieutenants and the captain. So having having that um I think that's a pretty good parallel to there's a couple of good parallels to fatherhood. Oh absolutely. Corley: I think and even their parenthood. I don't think anything prepares someone to be a uh company officer, especially better or leader. I could say just generally leader in life, probably it applies, than than children. Like Because parenthood teaches you patience because all of a sudden you're you're responsible for another human being, and uh you realize the limits you have when you're dealing with another human being, you know. Frank Lieb: And I've seen and I've seen that right. I've I've felt like I'm a parent at work and in my volunteer department um where it's just like man is uh am I the only adult here? Right. So that's that's another that's another parallel is that um sometimes you have to be the boss. Corley: Right. Frank Lieb: Sometimes you have to be the adult in the room. And if you're as a parent, you are always You are always the parent first. Here's another good parallel, right? Firefighters need bosses. They need bosses with rules and regulations and standards. So do children. Children don't need their parent to be their best friend. They need you to be their parent. Firefighters don't need the officer to be their best friend. They need them to be a boss. Friendship will come with being a parent. Friendship will come with being a company officer with your firefighters.

Corley: That's powerful. Frank Lieb: That was a good question. I'm glad that question was sent directly to me because that was really good. Corley: I don't even have it in my notes. Yeah, no, absolutely. If they got another one, send them around. Send it around the horn. Alex Valbuena says, Chief, and the first part of this question, but I like the second part especially. First part, Chief, how do you sell change or training to a superior? Right? But he goes on to say, or how would you want change to be presented to you? And what are some factors that help you buy into the new idea? I like the second half of that question a lot because it gets, yeah. Frank Lieb: Yeah. Corley: So what was the second part of the question again? How would you want change to be presented to you in a leadership position? Like how do you want them to bring it to you and what what what plays into that? Frank Lieb: That's a fantastic question. Um I want I want to know The why, right? And everybody wants to know the why, right? So present the problem, give me a solution. So, as a battalion chief or a deputy chief, the rescue and squad officers are very well trained in this, right Chief, I think you need a line to the second floor of the exposure. My guys can stretch a line. They already have a hose line. They already they already have an engine. They can stretch off of engine 287. They're on the corner. They only have one line off of them They identified the problem and they gave me a solution and they explained the why. Condition, action, need, solution, perfect. And I think that's how that's how I like it to be. presented because otherwise what you don't want to be you don't want to be the individual that is always just whining about a problem and never has a solution Right. So um I never go to my superior. Um and I would say this has been the case since I've been a captain, right? Where because as a captain is where I I I thought at that rank and above I really had uh an ability to um to impact where where chief officers would listen to me. As a lieutenant that was true. And as a firefighter, because I worked in firehouses that had deputies Chiefs.

Frank Lieb: So I saw the nuances for that. But as a captain, I thought it would it would really change that where I was able to influence up the organization perhaps better than uh any other point in my career. Um and it was always worth an explanation of this is the problem, this is what you know the why behind it. And and then give the solution and and it's got to be well thought out because if if you but if your reputation becomes known that you're the you're the individual that has solutions I'm gonna I got your back. I I I'm gonna um I got your blind side and I'm gonna come to you with a problem, but I'm gonna also come to you with a solution Then leadership will always listen to you because you're not the complainer, you're the solver. And that's important. So have solutions for the problems. And sometimes that means discussing it with other people because I never have all the answers. Right? Do you ever have all the answers? Corley: Negative. Frank Lieb: So, but um the wisdom of the crowd usually has the best solution. And when I talk at Education Day with our firefighters, I'll say, hey, this is a wicked problem. What do you what do you think we should do? Right? No, it's beautiful. The expertise is held by the members of the organization The again, and we said this, right? The sum of the of all of the individual pieces is way more than the individual pieces by themselves Well, you know, one plus one plus one plus one equals four, right? But not really. One plus one plus one plus one really equals ten. when you when you talk about the force multiplier in what we're able to accomplish. And the wisdom of the crowds and crowdsourcing, right? It's just a version of that that we do within our own organization and sometimes outside of our organization. I call people all the time that are outside my organization. How do you do this? What would you do? What do you think of this scenario?

Corley: And and the crazy part is is the more you cultivate that uh network and those relationships, how how powerful it can be. Uh next question coming at you from John, Eric Johnson. What are some foundational tips or advice you would give to build the winning mindset to a large company or battalion and the importance of the whole team approach? I mean you did write a lot of things. Frank Lieb: I just yeah. So I think um yeah several several so um I don't want to be a spoiler, but several of those will be in some of the chapter takeaways. But um It's again it's a it's that culture, it's that winning mindset, right? In the FDNY, we play to win on every run of every tour, every time out the door. Losing's not an option, failure's not an option um and and and just having success and and then that thirst to be better our tips from training and safety are well received because our people want to be better On whatever it is, they want to be better the next time out the door. Anybody that reads those, they're reading them because they want to be better. And whatever organization that you're in, whatever that is, that ability to communicate on how to be better, offering classes to be better, right? Whatever, again, if you're not the fire service, and you're you're you're offering these um career enlargement um opportunities where you could promote up the organization. Before I was a firefighter, I worked for Estee Lauder. Estee Lauder promoted from within The majority of the employees promoted from within to senior even to senior leadership and management, they would pay for your college education, even if it was unrelated to what you were doing. So you think about all those different cultures. They say, um, you know, train your people in whatever they want to learn, right? Because they're going to be better. They're going to be more um you know, they're gonna be more into they're buying into your organization or your department. And that's important. And you hear, well, if I train them, they'll leave. Well what if you don't and they stay

Corley: Yeah, it's beautiful, man. I love it. Frank Lieb: I love that question. Be the organization that trains. And, you know, um And if you know smaller organizations are oftentimes feeders for bigger organizations, I understand that. Take pride in that Right. Take pride in the fact that 30% of whatever department is people that work for your department because you that because you produce good people. So that's okay Right? Just just know that that you know um they all have roots there and that's a good thing, you know, because you you're you always identify by where you started. Who actually broke you in and started you and people always ask that a new officer in the fdn y the uh the chauffeur immediately wants to know the officer's pedigree hey boss where'd you work And as soon as they say the numbers, you know right up right off the bat, you just evaluated whether this guy's uh girl knows what they're doing or they don't. And and that's sometimes not fair But you want to wherever you work, you want to make sure that you make that culture what it is for that shift, for that company, for that department, and embrace, embrace it and be the be the best version of yourself. It's beautiful, man.

Corley: I can sit there and just be the bobblehead for your answers all day long. It's beautiful, man. I love it. Um uh uh what Jake Deal says, and you've you've touched on this, so you can you can you can you know reference things, but he says, how does the FDNY do it? How do they appear to have the strongest brotherhood of all the fire service? Frank Lieb: We don't appear to have the strongest brotherhood. We have the strongest brotherhood. And it's um It's it's passed down. It's truly passed down. Um and in every single thing we do. And it's just saying, hey, we have a memorial service today. we we're all going. We have we're doing a a barbecue and everybody should go there and the families could go. It's just it's so ingrained in our DNA. And and that starts in proby school when we have, you know, um you know um my good friend Gary, he comes and he's he's like he's an honorary battalion chief and he He's a historian. He used to work for the fire museum in the city. He knows all the history of the fire department. Our probies get a class from him on their history. You got to know the history of our job and where we've come and the blood, sweat, and tears to where we've how we've gotten here. Know the procedures that are written in blood of other firefighters. know the history that we have with the military. Know that 47 members of our job have been killed serving our country. Know that 60 something members of our uh graduating academy, this one that just graduated were veterans know the struggles that we've had and how we got to where we are today. And I think it's again, you never leave the FDNY family. And um I hear that from and I see the retired guys from our job and girls from our job all the time and Um, you know, our Fire Chiefs Association, uh, you know, if you're a fire chief on a job, doesn't matter if you're a fire chief for one day or you're retired and you're, you know, 95 years old. We have events that everybody shows up to You know, we we just had an event out in Montauk where we had 300 people. We probably had 5,000 years of experience.

Frank Lieb: um there in between active and retired members. I mean uh several former chiefs of department several former fire commissioners You know, I went to the FDNY Foundation dinner and um Sal Cassano, our retired chief from our job and retired commissioner, he now does a lot of the work with the tunnels for towers. Like I could call him up. Um I could call him up and ask him a question. He was such an such an amazing leader, even though when he was when he was leading our department, I was at a lower level in our department. And I didn't really have a lot of interaction. I have more interaction now with him because he wants to help mentor me and make me better. Because it's the FDNY way. And it could be the same with with Chief Ed Kilduff, who retired as Chief of Department. Tom Richardson, who retired as chief of department. These guys, um Jimmy Hodgins, who retired, uh Jimmy Esposito, all these people that have retired that that that they just want to give back, they they are always there for me. They're they're always a phone call away. And when I When I got there, when I became the chief of the fire academy, when I became the chief of training, when I became the chief of safety, other members of our organization that served in those positions immediately reached out to offer their help.

Corley: Hmm. Dude, it's possible. Frank Lieb: People that I looked up to. People I didn't even know that got my phone number from because it's the training lineage. It's and that's one of the chapters in the book all about that. That what do we how do we do that? What does that mean? What does that mean in practice? Corley: Right. Frank Lieb: And how do we get there? Because it size of the organization, big or small, doesn't matter. It's not a it should never be an excuse to not do something or not start have the culture that you want. And honestly Corey, you you articulate that so well in uh in the chapter that that that you contributed to. Because it really does. It's how do we bottle that up? I I'll I'll never forget that when you said that we're sitting there at Metal Day and we're looking out over the crowd of people, just absolutely celebrating. And you said to me, how do I bottle this up and bring this back to more for my department? Right. And I'm just thinking to myself, this guy totally gets it. And I I because uh and and I take it for granted what we have, right? Some sometimes I know I take that for granted. But hearing that just resonated with me. And when I was writing that chapter, I just kept thinking about that. How do we bottle this up and bring it somewhere else? How do I articulate this to make it where you can understand it, where you can experience it, feel it without having been there, like you had And then I gave you very basic parameters for what I wanted you to write. And you knocked it out of the park. And And really, you didn't even follow the parameters all that well.

Corley: Right, I didn't. Oh, you're right. Sorry. Frank Lieb: Like hardly at all. But um but it was absolutely perfect, right? Corley: I'm glad. Frank Lieb: Yeah So hey, hey, hey, can I uh I gotta do a um a quick shout out to my buddy Ray Holdsworth. Um Ray is a um retired member of the NYPD. Ray is also a life member of the East Farmandale Fire Department. He's listening from Florida tonight on the scrap. And on September 11th of 2001 I'm there for a couple of hours and he was the first person that I saw from home. And Ray is a big guy. He's a tall guy. He's a he's uh he's a large person um and when he saw me uh we were about a half a block away and we we ran to each other like like like two lovers would right right um He gave me the biggest bear hug that I had ever had in my life. Um, I still think I feel it. I I thought he was gonna break my ribs, but um He he's a I he's uh he's one of my brothers for he's forever my brother no matter where he lives. And uh him and his family, uh I I you know I love those guys. And uh um, you know, he's texting me tonight that he's in the Uh you know that he's watching. He's doing the end around. Uh right, right off, right on.

Corley: But thank you for watching, Ray. And here's the deal, Chief. You never have to say, hey, can I do a shout-out or can I ask this question? I'm never gonna say no to you Like it's basically your show. So just so you know. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Frank Lieb: My buddy Joe Lees, I always I seem he's always watching another big fan um you know young firefighter in Fairfax County but I know he's got to go to bed he's gonna probably listen to this uh the rest of it tomorrow if he if he's even still on but uh you know on the east it's kind of it gets late quick it gets late it does I know I do. But uh yeah, good stuff. Corley: Perfect. It's perfect time to transition to uh besides cornerstones of leadership. I always like to ask people, what book or books do you think firefighters should be reading? Frank Lieb: Oh boy. Uh so the nine L's, um the cornerstones of leadership. Yeah, Ryan Grant, yes. Is uh I mean that's just an amazing book. Um all the pass it-on books. I think are are fantastic. My goodness, there's so many um there's so many uh I always like the you know the buildings uh why why buildings fall down? Mario, I forgot the guy's last name is a great book. Why We Sleep is a great book. Oh yeah. You're going to dynamic here. Yeah. Yeah. Gina Alley's when it comes out next April, uh, when when uh Penwell publishes that um will will be a necessary read as well. Um They saved New York. I wrote the forward for that book. It's a fantastic uh fantastic book. I also wrote the forward for Dina Alley's uh book. Um and so I get asked to do forwards um uh every every now and again, fairly frequently. Um and I I watch I look I I see the um I ha I don't just write it. I gotta see the I gotta see the manuscript first. Sure. Uh and then determine I'll I'll peruse it first and say, okay, I'll do this. Or if I have the time. Sometimes I don't have the time. But Um I I don't take that lightly. I don't write a forward for a book I don't think is worthy. Um and those are two that I think are tremendously worthy.

Frank Lieb: And um You know, I'm looking forward to when when the second of those uh comes out. I think Mike Champo's book on Tower Ladders is a must-read My goodness, the fear of missing, I'm missing some. There's so there's so many. Corley: No doubt. No doubt. Frank Lieb: Keep reading. Stay learnable. You know, there's so much You know, I've told you this before. There's so many people doing good things. We need fire engineering. We need firehouse. We need these podcasts. We need young firefighters to write articles. We need firefighters to continue to do podcasts. Um, they're not your competition. We're all in this together, pushing in the right direction, man. And I know you get that, right? So absolutely. And that's and that's important. Um, you know, and uh But I love going on your show. I go on getting salty. I go, you know, um, because these are these are good podcasts, they're good people doing good things for the uh for the fire service. As long as you're not saying dumb stuff or stuff that's going to get firefighters injured or killed, then you are doing the right thing for the fire service in my opinion. opinion.

Corley: Beautiful. Uh Dean Ali said grateful for his forward. Couldn't believe he made time to read mine and while the for and write the forward while finishing his own book, Chief Leib is literally the best. Frank Lieb: So well it's a it's a power it's a powerful book. Her book is a powerful uh is a powerful book and um you know it's it it's i i at one point i told her i'm like stop stop writing stop writing you're you know she has so much information i'm like just make it like five different books Right. But there's so much information that she wants to get out there and share, which is which is so beautiful, right? That's the that is the beauty of it, is that there's so much there's so much good information out there. Hey, let's get it out there, and and that's a good thing. Corley: Man, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm telling you, I wanted to tell people this earlier. My favorite part of the book. Obviously, Metal Day is my favorite chapter. It's just such a such a personal story for me. But the my favorite part of the book is the takeaways. The 125 plus two. Man, I'm I'm serious when I say this. You can flip to those because they're all synopsis in the back of the book. They're all listed And you can flip to them and literally it can be your like a little devotional for the day. I don't care which one you pick out, you can just read it. And like I could just go and say, uh, technology is not a substitute for putting work in, uh, putting in the work to succeed. Even the greatest generation face criticism and challenges from their predecessors. That's randomly picking out two. You could just do that 127 times, man. uh one once per shift and they give you something to think about for the day and set your mindset right. The takeaways are brilliant.

Frank Lieb: And so and I put them all at the end because right so I love chapter takeaway right because even if I didn't if I didn't fully understand the the chapter for whatever reason um I'd go back and read it so I'm very similar to how I break down a book the way you do right so i'd go back and read it but now it's telling me what i should have learned right right and then what i would do is i always take notes or i'll take a picture of the book I take pictures of parts of books to post all the time, but I write notes and the next thing you know, I'm like, where was that note? So Um, because I'm not as organized as you are. So I said I gotta have all of them in one spot for exactly that reason. Because maybe you just want to send a motivational tip out to your company every day day or use it for for at roll call every morning pick one whatever it is that's kind of what I want it to be a uh a useful uh tool to be a reference manual if you want to use it for that with the tips Um, you know, but also the stories that relate to the different things. That's it's the stories is what I love in your book. It's what I love in Collapse of Burning Buildings by by by Dunn, by Vinny Dunn. um is that I remember the lessons because of the story. Right. It's easier to implement and put them and make them and make those train transfer those experiences to me. So now I can be better Because I learned that lesson because that building collapsed or because this story or whatever it is that the story is that we're portraying on why we took that that tip and made it and made it our own, right? And own it. And that's that was why we have them at the end. When we talk about the book, everything else in the book, my Um we was researched the size of the book, six by nine, same size as your book, the the length, how long it takes to read, um, even the the the paper color, the paper weight, the the size of the text, which is a little bit larger than you may usually see, but it's smaller than large, large.

Frank Lieb: than large print. Those are all intentionally done because we want, you know, I wanted the book to be easy to read for everybody. And that's and I I think Uh you you this book will take you between four and five hours to read cover to cover, um, which is the sweet spot, which is what we wanted because It's difficult sometimes when you have a book that you know you go on audio and it's 25 hours and you're like, oh my goodness, this is this is good this is like a part-time job Um so you know so you read a chapter, it takes 10-15 minutes. So you have 10-15 minutes, stop, boom, read the takeaways, great. You have 10-15 minutes. At night, boom, another chapter done. And you know, you could you could get through it, feel like you're making some progress. And with a little bit of luck, hopefully you're you know you'll like the book and you'll you'll like the takeaways of it and and realize these I don't use the word soft skill um all that often if at all. I don't even think I use the word. Um but that's what this this is about. It's about those other skills. Again, um, you want to learn about tower ladders? Champo's book, right? Right. You know, it's it's a different, you know, it's it's not that type of book. It's more of a leadership in these lessons, but they're lessons that are applicable for the firefighter up to the chief or any organization that you represent and as we've you know uh learned tonight even for a new parent

Corley: Right on. Right on. I love it, man. All right. Which takes us to one of my favorite parts of the show, which is you've got to experience this not long ago But the five questions for firefighters, but you haven't heard these five questions. Well, you might have heard them, but you have never got to answer them. It's the next five questions for firefighters version 3. 2 So there is no right or wrong answer. They are just your opinions, but the points are arbitrary. They're assigned by me with the help of the live audience. So my question to you, Chief Frank Leib, is are you ready for the next five questions for firefighters version 3. 2? Frank Lieb: I am ready. Corley: I'm as ready as I'm gonna be, my brother. Okay, give me a second. I'm gonna let my deaf boxer out Frank Lieb: So while he's letting the boxer out, I'm gonna say that um I have tonight I happen to be wearing um um one of my 9-11 memorial shirts. This shirt is it's probably 20 years old. And it's um Brian Sweeney, who um was a firefighter in squad 288. We went to uh he went to squad 288, I went to 270 at the same time, got to know him just a tremendous brother. Uh he uh he had transferred to to rescue one. Um he was killed on September 11th. Um later later on, several years later I would wind up being uh part season ticket holders for the new york Mets with uh with a group and one of the people in the group was his was his dad. I I wear this shirt once a year. I typically wear it um On September 10th, 11th to 12th, this year on the 11th, I was I was exhausted. By the time I got home, it was late. I had a full day of memorials and I didn't get a chance to wear it. So um just thinking about uh him and all of all the brothers that uh that died on September eleventh and and the members that are continue to be um to be fighting that uh you know nobody fights alone and certainly our brothers and sisters is uh aren't fighting alone, but just uh shout out to uh just to to to this brother particularly so thank you very honored you would choose to wear it uh uh tonight as the surrogate uh honestly that's all

Corley: Awesome, man. That really is powerful. So max points for that already out the gate. All right, here we go. Number one. What is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Frank Lieb: Stay humble, stay learnable. Have a thirst for the wife. And be loyal. You have to have competency, but without loyalty, you're not doing anything. You have to competency is is a given. You have to be competent, right? But loyalty is is tremendous. Corley: All right, I'm confused. Learnable. Thirst for the why. Competent. Loyal. So which one carried you through? If you had a gun to your head, which one is it? Um that's a great answer by the way. Great answer by the way. I'm I'm breaking your shoes. Frank Lieb: You gotta stay you you gotta be hungry for knowledge. You gotta stay, you gotta st you You gotta you gotta stay hungry for knowledge. You gotta stay learnable. Corley: No, everybody's already given you max points. It doesn't even matter what I said. They gave you so many points. Frank Lieb: And I can't even see it. Last time I was able to see what they were saying. Corley: There's a great answer. Frank Lieb: I'm waiting for you to tell me. I'm like, come on guys and girls, am I getting max points or what?

Corley: Like I'm I gotta keep I gotta keep going thinking that you got about 14 max points there in our while while while I was while I was waiting to break your shoes Frank Lieb: I'll have to check all that later and see. Corley: They're still rolling in. They're still rolling in. They're still giving you hundreds. Be hungry, hundred max points. Okay, number two. It's job town. It's time You're in route and responding. You know the scene from Backdraft where they slap the cassette into the tape deck and it starts playing. Like what song are you playing in route Frank Lieb: Oh, that's easy. ACDC back in black. My walkout song for my keynote. Oh yeah. There you go Corley: Uh easy max points for ACDC's Todd Edwards said max points. Thank you, Todd. And a quick answer. You didn't have to think about it. Didn't even have to think about it. Frank Lieb: No, so it's funny. So So people are like, how'd you pick the walkout song? Well, ten minutes before I went out on stage, they said, hey, what song you want to play? I'm like, uh, I like ACDC. But like, how about black and black and black? I'm like, that's freaking perfect. So the opening of the keynote last year was that. And I'm like It just stoked the crowd too because right that song you it doesn't matter what music you listen to you love that song back in black

Corley: No, the the rift is awesome, man. The rift is awesome. Frank Lieb: So I was talking to my son. So eventually when I get to doing the audiobook, right, I want to have the intro done with that song in the background. But I don't know, it's all the music rights and stuff. I'll write to ACPC. Hey, can I borrow the song? Right. Or how do I get the rights? You know? Corley: No, absolutely. I have no idea how that works. Frank Lieb: Yeah. If that doesn't work out, there'd be fire sirens. Corley: That'll work fire with the cue. I got something going on in my eye. I rubbed it too much. Okay. Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition? Frank Lieb: Yeah, so this this two, right? So my fi my favorite fire service tradition is how we take care of one another. That is my favorite because it matters. But the one I enjoy the most is the way we celebrate our successes on Metal Day We should we should never get rid of both, but we must always take care of our people. We must always take care of our fallen and their families. My volunteer fire department tonight, East Farmandale Fire Department. Those brothers and sisters aren't listening to this tonight because they had a company meeting and they recently participated in a chili cook-off competition And guys like Brian McNulty, Matt Joseph, Chris Melenga, Scott Lewis um mike greco i think these were some of the ones that were the cooks for us at least that's what i heard i missed it we beat the stu leonage team and there was a five thousand dollar donation that was was going to be made to a charity of our choice. And our choice was the Billy Moon Foundation. So tonight at the meeting, his widow was coming to accept the check. the $5,000 check for that. So it's when we take care of our own, that that that translates into out the volunteer fire service as well because Billy Moon was a volunteer firefighter and a city firefighter and he worked in in rescue too. He donated his organs after he passed away. You know his family did that. And she's been a champion of that So that's what that's why my East Farmandale brothers and sisters are not on, you know, the members that would be listening tonight, they're not, because they had that tonight.

Frank Lieb: And that's pretty powerful. Um, and I was I was thinking, can I go there and be there for that part and then get back in time? But I didn't want to, you know, I'm too was I'm too responsible to have taken that chance. Corley: to you know hey callie i'm running 20 minutes late right you know um no no yeah i think that's important no brother again easy max points on taking care of each other man And we and and then of course Metal Day, you know how I feel about that, and letting me be a part of it, the uh or observe a part of it. All right. This people have been talking about this one since before the show started, and it's the uh this one's on the clock. You get one minute to answer Right? Sam Sam sets up the clock. You'll be able to see it there. The audience will be able to see it. And you have one minute to tell uh tell us who are the four people you would put on the Mount Rushmore of the fire service. Your Mount Rushmore. Yeah, my Mount Rushmore. Frank Lieb: So my round my Mount Rushmore would be my brother Bobby, who um He passed away when he was 36, uh, and I was 26. Um, and the book is dedicated to him, and I talk greatly about him. Um and So I and I thought it was so people that you wish you could have a conversation with as well, right? So um so I'm I'm gonna go along with that a little bit because Mount Rushmore Guys like Tom Richardson would be on that, but guys like Oriel Palmer, who was the highest firefighter on September 11th, who I didn't know, but I wish I did. I wish I could talk to him To have another conversation with a guy like Alan Brunicini, to have conversations with some of the legends of our early time in the job. I don't even know how many how many I'm up to right now. So all right, so I'm gonna put my brother. Um uh I'm gonna put my brother, I'm gonna put um I'm Richardson, I'm gonna put Oriel Palmer and um Who else should I met?

Corley: And Alan Brunicini. Brunicini. Frank Lieb: You got it. Corley: I got it under the wire, I think. Bobby Palmer Brunicini Richardson. Very well done. Frank Lieb: And there's so many, right? That's like a loaded question. Oh yeah, no, yeah. Corley: You've got nothing but loaded questions tonight. Frank Lieb: I I've heard that question and I've heard the answer for on on several of your uh um of your previous podcasts and i i love all the answers no they've been great i've i've enjoyed the questions oh yeah that's a good choice you know Yeah, yeah, no. Corley: I love more I it's like all of them. The reason I love the five questions for firefighters, it's really not the answer, it's the reasons why. You know, yeah. And I love it. I really do. I really and you got max points rolling. I'm not I don't have to look anymore. It's like Auto Mac. Final question, which you've already answered earlier, so I'm I'd be surprised if anything's different. It's heavy fire and searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? When you put the fire out, everything gets better. I would be surprised if it was a different answer.

Frank Lieb: Nah, it's oh you know, and and I know I know that um I I know that the popular answer uh um so far since you've been asking this question is the truck. But um so the truth of the matter is when you have a really good fire, the the the guys and girls that are going to be searching is standing behind you with the nozzle. So the searchable space is only searchable because you have a hose line there. When it's a true really really ripping job. So I like to joke around um what's a truck without an engine? It's six more victims. Corley: There you go. And that officially gives you max points. Five for five. Easy max. Tank fired up. Morris showed up and said, let's go. Late to the party. But here from my brother. Here from my brother. Max points Uh someone said knob with all caps. Absolutely. And that makes it the five. Frank Lieb: Listen, there's um It is searching and finding a victim. It is um it is one of the ultimate privileges in our profession. It's a privilege To be able to find and rescue another human from a burning structure. It is a just like it's a privilege when we bring somebody back performing CPR. It is why we do what we do Um so I I totally understand that is and I and the feeling I've had when 'cause I've had the privilege a couple of times uh to pull somebody out of a a burning structure, but I still there's just nothing more self satisfying than than having the uh uh than having the nozzle. I love it.

Corley: I absolutely love it. And there we go. That fakes it. 213 scraps in the books, but we have to give away three copies. Of Cornerstones of Leadership. This is a phenomenal bestseller book that we've got here. Signed copies, scrap editions Uh I don't know what else to say. We gonna Sam's gonna pull up the spinny wheel and everybody that's entered from earlier, he's gonna do the spinny wheel and we're gonna give away, we're gonna spin it three times and the winners, you we we talked about it. Do you have to be present to win? You don't If you if your name comes up, then you win it and we will contact you. Because what if the tones dropped? You know, that's not fair. So uh three three copies right here, and then we're gonna do two copies in the after party for the vigilantes Where Frank gets roasted by the vigilantes for his how how how his performance was here on the scrap. All right, Sam, when you're ready, uh kick the spinny wheel. They covered my face with a spinny wheel. Frank can't see the spinny wheel. Here we go Britta Horn, congratulations on winning Cornerstones of Leadership, Scrap Edition, signed by Frank Leb. Okay, next one.

Frank Lieb: And Britta Horn happens to be an author as well. Britta does I know Brita and she does an awful lot for the fire service herself. So um that's that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool Corley: Christopher, what'd you say? Oh, Chris Fabrizo. I think you say Christopher, but Chris Fabrizo. And we will reach out, even if you're not here, we will reach out and let you know that you won. And the final one. Here comes spinny will. Sam's writing him down before he spins. He's letting me know in my ear. John Valles writing it down myself There you go, three copies. Scrap edition. Thank you for being here. Housekeeping coming up. My brother, Frank Lieb. Thank you for sharing your evening with all the scrappers. It's been an amazing time. If someone wants to get a hold of you, reach out to you in some way, shape, or form, what's the best way to do so? Frank Lieb: Um any of the so any social media. I probably the best right now would be um cornerstones of leadership on Facebook. If you have the book, my link tree is in the back of it. And that's definitely the best because that has links to everything. I'll wind up putting a link to this scrap, link to the previous scrap, articles I've written. There's a ton of information on my link tree. And again, that's in the back of the book as well. Beautiful.

Corley: I love it. Go to firehousevigilance. com. If you haven't already, become a vigilante. Go join. It's five bucks a month. And it's the price of a cup of coffee. You can sign up for monthly, you can sign up for a year. But you get to do cool stuff like this. We just, this is really actually very cool. A bunch of us did the V90. And it's a it's a thing. You can see my book is all beat up, but from going to the the fire station with me and in my bag. But you you you basically make a commitment for 90 days to do this book and it's a fitness slash mental slash social challenge. And it's really cool because you score it. I'll show I'm trying to show you Right here. You score it each day. I'll show you a good a good weeks of scores instead of my bad scores. And and it's really fun. But we today was the 90th day and we actually Finished the uh the V90 commitment today and we're gonna be starting another one. That's the cool kind of stuff we do in there, including stuff like the after party, which is coming up. So go to firehousevigilance. com, become a vigilante if you're not one. Um Yeah, 56 days from today, 56 days in a few hours is the opening of firemanships uh where you can buy uh Yeah, they're gonna it's gonna go on sale. Firemanship is gonna go on sale 56 days from today on Cyber Monday. I'm announcing it every scrap until it gets here. November 27th, Cyber Monday You can get your tickets to firemanship, 56 days in a few hours. My brother, Frank Lieb, thank you for being such a phenomenal guest.

Frank Lieb: Thank you, my brother, and thank you, everybody, for uh for the support that you've shown and for and for being here watching the scrap. Thank you. Corley: Vigilantes, I will post the link to the scrap after party in the group. You can find it there as per usual. Frank has agreed to come on and be roasted And hear the feedback and thoughts about the episode. Audience, scrappers, thank you so much for being here this evening. You are truly what makes the scrap magical with your questions, loaded questions. Soft tosses, uh, max points, all of it, man. You guys truly make the scrap so much fun. Thank you for tuning in live. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burned.