Weekly Scrap #327 - Paul Watlington. Engine Company Operations, Leadership, Fireground Tactics.

Speaker 1: I'll go one Corley: I get asked all the time, what is a vigilante? What does it mean to be a vigilante? And so to explain that, I'm just gonna kind of explain where the vigilantes came from. When I started the group, I honestly thought there was gonna be like 10 or 20 people who really liked the scrap. That would want to be a part of the behind the scenes, helping pick out the guests and make the questions and things. And I never dreamed that the vigilantes would grow into what it has grown into. Over 700 like-minded souls. If you're a vigilante, you are never alone. We have members from across the country. We have members from across the globe. And it's just amazing what it's become. If you're in there, then you get to be in the Discord, and the Discord is where we do all of our dis Discussions and people go live and they talk and they ask questions and we have a channel for bitching and moaning for presenting classes. It's just it's amazing the fellowship that is involved in being a vigilante. And it's not just that, there's so many other benefits You get access to the Vigilante only swag shop. You get the 15% discount on all merch from Firehouse Vigilance. You get the after parties. You get the Vigilante get togethers when we're all at the same place and we get together and we raise a glass and do a toast and have the vigilante creed. You get the vigilante coin when you hit your one year anniversary with your number. The fireaways, the forums, the archives, all those quarterly projects that are coming that that you get to be a part of and get to be behind the scenes on, it's grown into something bigger than I ever imagined And I want people to know about I want people to be a part of if you're not a vigilante, why not? I don't know, I don't know how how big it could be. I don't know. I mean the vigilantes are are where the work is at. They're the ones who are getting stuff done and it's phenomenal to be a part of it. I wanted to get on here and explain where it started, how it how it came to be, and ask you if you're not a vigilante, why not?

Corley: It go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. That's where you sign up. It is five dollars a month. I mean it's You can't even get a cup of coffee for that anymore. Five bucks a month and you get to be a part of this unbelievable group. Go to patreon. com, sign up, become a vigilante, and I will see you on the Discord. Speaker 1: I'm Greg Temple. I'm the fire chief of the Spring Hill Fire Department in Spring Hill, Tennessee. The Spring Hill Fire Department is a fully career fire department consisting of 93 staff members. We cover a little over 27 square miles about 30 minutes south of Nashville along I-65. The Spring Hill Fire Department's Training Center was was very small when I got there three years ago. We essentially had one burn box, one connex facility that led us to consider affordable drill towers So the Bar Tower really stood out to us as being the most ideal model for our city. We have currently three and four story hotels in the city. This is gonna give us the ability to train now on you know up to five and six stories. So the Bart Tower comes with six movable windows and allows us to be able to practice on multiple different levels, multiple different floors for VEIS, for ladder truck pickoffs. The openness of the tower as well allows us as instructors to be able to look in and watch what's going on or watch from the ground. The ability to practice confined space and being able to take the floor treads out was was definitely an advantage. The roof prop gives us the ability to practice both on commercial flat roofs as well as ventilated peak roofs. The ability to have dual staircases. Firefighters are competitive. They want to run against each other on our physical agility testing. This is going to give us the opportunity to do that. The affordable drill tower is just such a versatile piece of equipment for your drill ground. You have removable floors, the windows, the stand pipes. There is no comparison with what you get with an affordable drill tower versus other towers that may be one and a half to three million dollars. the affordable drill tower gives you all the functionality of those same buildings for a fraction of the cost. And it definitely made my city administrator and my finance director very happy when I presented them with the bid for an affordable drill tower compared to the other products that we considered.

Speaker 1: And your imagination is the only thing that limits you by using one of these towers. So it's that's been a great investment and it's really helped our department a lot. Working with affordable drill towers was amazing. I initially sent an email Dennis was very prompt to respond back. We had several conversations. So it's been a great process from start to finish with affordable drill towers. Corley: Let's do this. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 327 Paul Watlington, 25 years fire service experience, and the owner of Impact Fire Training. Currently, Assistant Chief of the Burlington Fire Department in North Carolina, overseeing training, safety, and logistics Paul has also served 25 years with the Yanceyville Volunteer Fire Department in North Carolina. He holds the designation of Chief of Training Officer with the Center for Public Safety Excellence. He's been a fire service instructor since 05, taught for multiple college systems, fire departments, and conferences throughout the United States. He's also a forever student of the fire service with interest in training and development leadership and the engineer's role in engine company operations. Paul is unapologetic about his faith, the love for his family, and his passion for the American Fire Service. And I'm excited for the conversation. We we got here, Paul. It's only taking a bit. But we got here. Welcome my brother to episode number 327

Paul Watlington: Thank you, Corley. Appreciate you having me, man. And let me start by saying happy Veterans Day to all of the veterans serving and those that have served, specifically my pops. 1968-69 Vietnam 101st Airborne Division Screaming Eagles. Happy Veterans Day those things. Corley: Right on, my brother. Absolutely. anything I missed in the intro? Anything you want to add? Besides that, yeah, but but yeah. Paul Watlington: No, I I'm looking for the guy that you just introduced. I don't know who that guy is, but not. Corley: He sounds he sounds amazing. I will be honest with you. Paul Watlington: Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Corley: No, absolutely, my brother. Okay, well there you go. Audiences piped primed and ready. They've been the front row crew, the front row gang has been here checked in and talking. And so they're excited. Polly putting B Town on the map with like 14 Ps. Let's go with like 14 O's from Matt Hauser. Mauch has the let's go coming. Yeah, absolutely. First live show. Let's go. Welcome, Nikos, to the first live show. And then there's a lot of LFGs, Veterans Days, yeah, Larkin Fire. Man, yeah, lots of hype. Here we go. Let's do the sponsor so we can get to the scraps so the hype is worth it.

Paul Watlington: Right on. Corley: When it comes to building your perfect attack package, you can't just slap any nozzle on any hose and hope for the best. That's a recipe for failure. At Snap Tight Hose, they are not just trying to sell you hose. They are there to make sure you get the right hose paired with the right nozzle for your crew and condition. Their team of experienced reps knows the stuff inside and out and they're ready to help. No ego, no judgment, because knowledge is power. And at Snaptight Hose, they bring both. Visit SnapTightHose. com to connect with the rep and start building your ideal hose and nozzle package today. Affordable Drill Towers on a mission to bring you cost-effective and versatile training props like the Affordable Bellout Prop. Which allows you to practice window bailouts, ladder bailouts, and ladder high point rescues. Of course they also make the affordable standpipe prop, which you can roll into the classroom for standpipe theory, and then roll it into the parking lot and pump realistic flows and pressures. And their mainstay, the affordable drill tower. It comes in several configurations. Standard with a standpipe system. Choose one or two sets of stairs. Integrate it into your existing connex boxes. or freestanding on a slab. All models, NFPA 1402 compliant, and gain you ISO credit. The only thing that you can't do on an affordable drill tower is live fire training. Call Steve, 844-55 Tower, or drop an email to info at affordable drilltowers. com. Fire safety and accountability starts with being able to quickly find and identify individual firefighters operating on the fire ground. Identifier Safety combines the best in photoluminescent materials for durable firefighter identification solutions that can glow for up to 20 hours. No switches, no batteries, which means being able to rapidly identify firefighters by name, unit, or assignment, even under hot fire conditions All specifically designed for the rigors of the job. Be seen, on scene, identifiersafety. com. And of course, you guys know I love Flame Decon. Get the nasty stuff off you. Use flame in the shower. Shower within the hour. Get it on. Okay. All that being said, it's time to scrap. And the and the audience is going. Okay. And for those of you that don't know, Sam is the all-powerful Oz, and he absolutely pulled off an ultimate swap with like two minutes to go to get this scrap live.

Corley: So anyway, hat hands hats off. Paul, let's talk. Driver operators Engineers, engine company operations. Man, let's get into your wheelhouse. Let's start in your wheelhouse. This is what I first learned about you talking about and things like that. But let's talk about engineer operations and What we're doing right in the fire service and what we're getting wrong and where you see the most room for improvement. Paul Watlington: What we're doing right and wrong, man, that's I think it's that's relative to we I mean we can talk about that later, but you know I will say that the the engineer position that that chauffeur, that driver doesn't get their day in court, right? you know, it's what I've noticed in the past, just you know, growing as a firefighter, growing in the positions that I've been in is there's not there there's a lot beyond certification for many of the aspects or many of the positions on the fire ground, right? beyond certification. But, you know, when you look at that driver engineer position, a lot of times it's you know, it's in-house training you know what you might get out of certification, what you might get out of just trials and tribulations as you go through at the pump panel. But when you go to conferences, you know when you go to you know, seek any outside education. it's just not a lot out there for those those fire those engineers that are looking to actually use that as a destination position and or view that as a destination position. So you know, when I noticed that, I really looked at that as an opportunity to to to hit the streets hard, man. And you know, I I know what I went through and I knew what wasn't available to me. you know, I learned the hard way on quite a few things and I just wanted to make sure that I did my part to make sure that nobody else had to you know experience some of the the mistakes that I made, right? And you know, I mean you go to you go to these conferences, it's conferences all over the world, man, all over the country, especially here in the U. S. you know, from from Florida to to the northern part of the U. S. all the way to the west coast, east coast.

Paul Watlington: And it's a, you know, you you you can flip a coin and go to any s any of the the search classes and the fire attack classes and truck classes but you know it's just a handful that are that are designed and built around mastering that position at that pump panel and mastering that position of the overhaul driver operator. So you know what are we doing right and wrong? I mean man that's we could talk all night long just about that one particular topic. You know, but what what I did learn was there's so much more beyond what you're going to learn in in a certification class that gets you into that position and once you're there is kind of like You learn the hard way. And, you know, I hate to say it, but learning the hard way sometimes could could you know mean life and death to a victim, right? and and You know, a lot of people don't even look at the driver position as a it there's a lot of myths, I guess is what I could say You know, it's not rewarding, it's not exciting. you know, it's a stepping stone to get to the officer role, right? Right. you know, is it doesn't make as much of an impact. on the fire ground. You want to know how much of an impact you make as a driver on the fire ground? Miss a route. Miss a route. That's 10 to 15 more breaths that a victim is taking of harsh in harsh environments, right? you're delaying getting that search crew there You know, not understanding your apparatus and the limitations of the apparatus, not understanding you know, the troubleshooting aspects of being a pump operator. You're really the only person other than the ship commander that's on the scene that's operating by herself. You don't have anybody there to bounce ideas off of. You got to take that into consideration. It's it's you, it's John Wayne time, right? So And be able to work your way through it. But I mean of course there's so much more to it than that. But

Corley: Why do you think the reason is that there is so little out there? Like like when like you say, you go you can throw a rock and hit a conference almost any weekend of the of the we were in the conference Probably past the golden age and in the conferences. You know, there's just tons of them is what I'm saying. And like you said, you can sign up for the search class, the hose advancement class, the even throwing ladders class, the force wheel class, but there is not a lot out there for that pump panel And moving that water or or just like you one of the guys in the chat actually said Mount said, anyone can push buttons and pull levers. True engineers are artists. But there's there's not a lot of our art you know how to be an artist classes out there. Is it just and this is what I'm trying to ask, is is it just because it's so unglorified and it is a stepping stone or is it just so jurisdictionally based It's just not glamorous. Like what in your opinion, what's the what's the the reason? Paul Watlington: I think I think because it's one of the earlier stages, and I and I say that being Using, I guess, the historical stance to it, it's one of the earlier stages of your fire service career and especially a lot of career departments. You know, a lot of a lot of folks look at that position as being just Hey, I'm gonna do my year, my two, my three, four years as a driver, and then I'm gonna hurry up and move on to the to the officer role, right? you know, you don't feel, you know, a lot of people have come to me and said, man, I just I don't feel like I'm making an impact. What I do is kind of You know, nobody sees what I do. Nobody pays any attention to what I do. Because like 80% of the time, 80 to 90% of the time, everything's going to work perfectly fine for you at the pump panel. So it's almost like it it doesn't encompass the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from it, but it does because that 10 to 20% of the time that things don't go right It can like largely delay the incident.

Paul Watlington: It could delay time to victims. It could delay time to extinguishment. Going all the way back to the firehouse, I mean, where does your preparation as an engineer start? yeah, it starts in the firehouse. It starts in studying routes, it starts in You know, understanding the limitations of your rig. You know, you you're you are the technical specialist of every piece of equipment on that apparatus. I mean I I I use the I guess the comparison to to NASCAR drivers, if you think about it. Like, you know, those NASCAR drivers, their job is to drive the car, right? You know, you got all these other guys that You know, they're set aside to work on it. Your job is to drive it. But how can you tell them what to work on if you don't know what is wrong with it? You know, you hear those guys calling in on the radios and saying, hey man, I I I feel like I got a vibration You know, I feel like I got this. In order to know that you got something wrong, you got to know what right feels like first, right? So you have to know that apparatus. You have to be able to use all of your senses. you know, understanding the mechanics of that that apparatus. When I bec when I decided I wanted to become a pump operator, I actually put in a request for transfer to get to a specific station where I knew where the top driver instructor was at our fire station And it just so happened it was real close to the training facility in our in our fire department. And it it was just everything was lining up perfectly. So when I got out there, I was like, man, I've been, you know, I've got my driver operator certification. I feel is, you know, math is actually interesting to me now because I hated math in high school. You know, I didn't give a crap. So you know when I got out there he says hey you know so I understand you want to be you want to be a pump operator, you want to be a driver operator, you want to You want to be my right-hand guy, you know, in the truck. Yeah, okay. Well, guess what? We're not going to start with the fun stuff first.

Paul Watlington: I'm like, wow, okay. we're gonna start at the very beginning. I want you to know this rig from the front to the back, top to bottom. I want you to know what you're doing. Corley: So you start inventory? Yeah. Paul Watlington: I mean I mean everything. I want you to know everything it is to know about everything on this truck. And and how it operates, because I'm not going to be here beside you when something goes wrong. I'm going to be interior or I'm going to be on the roof or I'm going to be over here doing this, you know. So, you know, he wanted me to know everything. I got lucky because my driver, my engineer, driver, operator, chauffeur, instructor was actually a mechanic. So you know, he was able to break things down even more in detail. But he wanted me to know my water supplies. He wanted me to know secondary routes, you know, he wanted me to know everything it was to know about that. And then we got into the actual pump operations. Which was a completely different beast at that point, which I thought at the time that's all it was, right? Right, right. You know, when we got into all of the other aspects, I was like, wow Now I'm seeing what kind of an impact that a true engineer, true chauffeur, driver, whatever you refer to it at your department, what that really means and how much of an impact that you could make on the operations on the scene.

Corley: Right on. No, how long ago was this? Like time frame wise in your career? Paul Watlington: Oh my God. Okay, y'all. Let me see. How much hair I got left? That was a long time ago. Two thousand five, I think. Corley: Quite a ways back. What do you like and this just made me think of it because you know All none of us are getting younger. But when we started, you know, you still run in two stage was it volume and pressure back then still or actually Paul Watlington: No, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Keep going. Corley: No, no. No, no. I was just gonna go, you know, go to the the the whole one bump, one you know, electronic, one button push preset mentality that that it's become and the artistry being taken away from it. But go ahead and go wherever you want to go with it. Paul Watlington: No, no, no, no. I'm glad you said that because like I I'm a firm believer and and I'm gonna probably get crucified for this because most people like technology and where we're going with it. But and I and I'm a fan of technology. But I will say that for for quite a few people technology has taken away the concept of thinking

Corley: Right. Understanding even how what's going on. Paul Watlington: I was taught the why before I was taught the how, right? So, and I think that's very important with with anything in fire training, right? If you're taught the why first, you get the most out of the how So when it comes to the technology part, what it brings to the table, I mean, we're relying on buttons, man. We're relying on technology and Hey, if it don't do what it's supposed to do, then I can blame it on the, you know, the system, right? You know, I don't have to worry about taking that on me. But you know, what when it comes down to it breaking it breaking it all down and understanding the the the way technology has kind of taken on, we still I mean we Back in the day when I first started pumping trucks, man, we did, we had a kind of a varied fleet. We had two stage pumps. We had two old max, old 70, so 70, I think it was like 78, 79 Mac. Nice. Yeah, and I didn't know how to drive it because you had to double clutch it. And that particular that particular instructor I'm talking about, he was my captain at the time. I had it in reverse one day and didn't know it because the truck was so loud you couldn't hear the reverse buster and you know I I'm a country boy I grew up in North Carolina on the farms and you know driving straight gear vehicles you know five speed And when I pull up to an intersection, you know, I was just moving the gear shifter around, right? So I slam it in in in first gear to get ready to take off and and I'm actually in reverse the whole time and I didn't know it. And And when I dropped the clutch, you know, bam, I'm driving backwards. And he immediately said, Get out of the truck, come over here. You're not driving anymore, right So you know, just that little change you know, moving over to automatic transmissions. And then you got two stage pumps, one you know, single stage pumps. Now we're strictly single stage pumps now, but

Corley: Oh no, no. I was wondering because we went to single stage. That's all we have anymore And and so I wondered if they were just phased out like dying breed or if if that if that was an old I'm not versed. I'm I'm just showing my ignorance. I wonder if people still order two stage pumps with volume and pressure. Paul Watlington: You can still get 'em. And you know, in my volley house in in my volunteer department here in Yanceyville, you know, we we we've got a few trucks that still have you know two stage pumps in them, but You know, some of the listeners may be able to relate to this. Most of the two stage pumps at at some of the stations, you know, they're stuck in pressure mode. You know, the the transfer valves won't even move anymore because that's one of the valves that hardly ever gets used on a on a pump, you know, but you know, those little tran those little transitions and then, you know, now we got pressure governors and you know, I thought the pressure governor system, the total pressure governor system in the in the the fire service was a huge transition, but now we got you know computerized pump panels, drag and drop. You know, you you actually got engineers that are the first time they ever see a pump panel is a computer screen And they actually just drag, you know, pre-connect one over to the little picture of a pump, you know, and and That's where it all starts. But you know, and that's that's good. I mean, I understand that. I understand that you know, we have to change with the the current environment that we're in But you know, it it still needs the the why still needs to be taught. The the background still needs to be taught. you know And you can take that even further and look at pump charts. I mean most departments now are or or or most departments that I've interacted with are creating pump charts. You know, that's great. That's awesome. It's a quick reference sheet for you to be able to move forward with into your you know your pump operations. But I think it's still important to know where that came from, right? where those numbers came from. And that all goes back to testing, which is the absolute best way to determine what you need to do is test.

Paul Watlington: Don't rely on industry standard. Corley: Right. Paul Watlington: yeah, because everything's so different. Corley: No, I haven't been corrected. The chat's wildly correcting me saying, Wessels let me know they still run two stages in Atlanta. Blake Kantack says all the apparatus in Jacksonville are two stage pumps. So there you go. So there you go. Paul Watlington: I'm gonna tell you, man, especially with the cost of apparatus now and the wear and tear that it does run at high RPMs on some of those single stage pumps. you know, I remember those old Macs. You know, some people used to joke and say that You know, a you might not be able to get it to the scene, but if you do, it will pump better than any other apparatus that you're gonna find. It just hums, man. I mean it hums. It know-how RPMs and and It's just the longevity of the pump, you know, from from my experiences with those particular apparatus was a lot longer. Corley: No, it makes sense. And and and and Chris Wessels made a good point. If you're gonna pump a high-rise, you really need a two-stage. And that's a valid very I didn't even think about that aspect.

Paul Watlington: Yeah, you're pumping higher pressures to overcome that loss, man. You you you need that extra help. Corley: No, that makes complete sense. Are you ready, Paul, for your first questions coming at you from the Scrappers? Paul Watlington: I'm ready, man. Let's let it rip Corley: Kyle Piverall checking in says how can I help others and myself develop in the driver engineer role when my department does not have a promoted position? Either the senior guy drives or the person that chooses to drive that day. Paul Watlington: So the first thing is what we've already talked about, and that's just understanding the impact that you can actually make on an incident as a driver operator. you know, we take pride in all of the aspects of the service. We take pride in all of the positions that we I mean, Coley, you were a battalion chief, you know, before you retired, and I'm sure you were very proud of what you you know, the impact of what you brought to the table. I I I'm not quite sure why, but there's a lot of engineers that kind of feel, you know, like You know, I I'm I'm not gonna say embarrassed, but like, hey, you know, it must be nice to be, you know, in turnout gear over here doing a search or doing a fire attack or standing in command post. I'm gonna just be over here pulling levers, you know. But That that is just a myth, right? I mean that's that's just a a mindset. If you've got that mindset, then that's all you're gonna ever get out of. But when you really break that position down and realize I I looked at I'm kind of a geek about the fire triangle, right? The fire triangle and the three main tactical priorities are the reason that we're on this show right now.

Corley: That's it. Paul Watlington: Yeah, I mean it is. I mean if you take those two things away from your fire service, right? Well none of us have a job, right? So I I relate everything to a triangle. I got a leadership triangle. I got the the the the the incident triangle. So you can have all of the ship commanders that you want, all of the scene commanders that you want. You can have all of the nozzle operators, all of the The you know, vent guys, the truck guys on on the scene. But if you take that pump operator away, you take that that engineer away You have a massive, massive impact. And the gentleman that that mentioned something in the the chat a few minutes ago about, you know, like there's a difference between lever pullers and and pump operators. Corley: Right. Paul Watlington: yeah, I could teach my twenty year old son that's never been inside of a fire truck. I could teach him to make water come out of a nozzle in fifteen, twenty minutes. That's just Hey, do this, do that. but understanding what you're doing, you got hose nozzle packages that you have to take into consideration. You got losses that you have to take into consideration You know, you got specific crews that you got to take into consideration. you know, desired flows is so many other aspects to that job. And hey, but when you are in that position, Be proud of that. Yes. And understand that. And and and like strive to be the best driver that has or the best driver operator that has ever come through that department. You need to be the person That is so good that nothing surprises you. I think about Brett Fall. I I'm a big football geek, right? I'm a I'm a I'm a football fan. so I think about Brett Forbes. He was actually doing an interview years ago in it was a true story. I think it's actually on TikTok. But Brett Farr, if you're a football fan, you know who he is. Super Bowl winning quarterback for the Green Bay Packers. And obviously he came over to the lighter side, the great side, which the Minnesota Vikings, but Brett said that all of the years that he was a quarterback, he never knew what a nickel defense was. He never knew what a nickel defense was So he's in his second year at Green Bay, and he looks at his backup quarterback and he says, hey man, like this is kind of embarrassing, so I got to ask you a question.

Paul Watlington: What's a nickel defense? And they were like, really? You you serious? Like you you're like an NFL quarterback? Yeah, what's a nickel defense? well that's when they take out a linebacker and they add in a defensive back. And he says, oh that that's it? Yeah. He said, who gives a shit? He was so good. That nothing surprised him. He was so prepared at his job that nothing, no matter what the enemy threw at him, he was he was able to handle it, right? So, you know, that's the approach that you need to take on pretty much every aspect of what you're doing on the fire ground. But that driver operator position, no man, I'm You know, a lot of people pick on me and like, hey man, you're an assistant fire chief and you're teaching driver operator stuff. Why ain't you teaching like leadership and management and all of this other stuff? stuff because I have worked with I I I have had like but you know in in in in my fire service career and hearing other people's testimonies I have had you know or or heard of bad drivers, bad pump operators, and good drivers, good pump operators And it makes a tremendous difference. And Corley, you were an officer on a truck. You can vouch for this. There's nothing more comfortable than getting in that right seat and looking over and seeing that veteran engineer. that you you don't you you can rely on as your right hand person it takes a weight off your shoulders.

Corley: Oh it really really does man. Yep as the company officer without a doubt without a doubt Paul Watlington: Hey, long answer there. I'm sorry about that. Long answer. Corley: No, that's what the scrap's about, man. It's about going down rabbit trails, rabbit holes, wherever we want to go. Matthew Hauser coming at you. He says, tell us how important knowing your streets are. And I'm go into this right here. I'll be right back in two seconds, but go ahead and talk because it's right here. Paul Watlington: Yeah, no, knowing your streets is very important. And you know, historically like in our department, you know, we have a street test. in and our street test you know we we've heard a lot of opinion about it from other departments from our department you know from people that are in our department you know like man guy here comes a street test you gotta pass the street test But a lot of people wonder why the street tests are still needed when you got MCTs on the truck. You got, you know, GPS, right? You know, I was on the way home from me and Lori were on the way back from Gatlinburg, Tennessee. I was teaching at the Tennessee State Conference, and I typed in the GPS, you know, my house. So I end up like turning down somebody's driveway and I'm like in the backwoods, man. I don't know where I'm at. I'm on a gravel driveway, but my GPS told me to get there, right? So, you know, that's just an a another example of technology is not always the end-all fix-all, right? Right. So you know, MCTs, you know, your your computers on the trucks, you know, we got all of this technology that we can rely on with silent dispatch, you know, telling us where we're supposed to go But what happens if that doesn't work, right? Also, what happens if there's street closures? Thankfully, we're ahead of the game where we work and we get street closure notifications first thing in the morning, every morning as an alert. in in the in the dispatch center. They let us know of any street closures because we might have to make different routes. You know, we also have specific routes with low overpasses to where our ladder trucks may not be able to go the same route as the engine, right?

Paul Watlington: So they might have to come in from a different location. So know where no streets and routes are important. And and I'm gonna relate back to the the comment that I made a few minutes ago about We can go to conferences, we can watch YouTube videos, we can do we can rely on internal knowledge that we have in our stations and our departments to help us shape seconds. We shave seconds off of a search with specific tips and tactics. We can shave seconds off of extinguishment. By listening to this and you know, hearing this person's point of view. Man, put that in in play, man. That's awesome. We gained another few seconds. None of that matters when you take a wrong route. None of it matters, right? You want to know how much of an impact, again, that you make as a driver operator. Expand your your mindset beyond the pump panel and think about how much of an impact you're making on a life or death. scenario with a patient, with a with a victim, you know, in a house fire, when you have to go an extra two blocks down to make a U-turn to come back to, you know, the the incident location. So yeah, huge impact. That's how important the streets, street knowledge is for your district

Corley: Larkin Fire coming at you with one and he says, how many times do you see the DO not want to train? But then on scene, the problem is always with the truck, not with them. Paul Watlington: Technology, apparatus, working parts. It's easy to blame things on, right? You know, it's easy to say. Because I mean, hey, how are you gonna prove that it wasn't, right? So I mean That's actually a really good question because it brings me into the training aspect. It brings me into the scenario-based training. I'm a scenario-based training person I'm all about hitting off of the disease first, right? I'm all about, you know, get your mechanics right first, but then apply that in scenario-based training you know, just to see, you know, how everything's working out and to be able to get a good evaluation. But when you do that scenario-based training, when you do your company drills, Evaluate the driver operator. Who's actually evaluating them, right? When you get done with your your company drill and you're doing you know a critique or a hot wash You know, hey guys, what did you do better? What can you do better? What did you do bad? Okay, hey chief, what decisions could you have made better in the command post? But what you what you rarely see is then they turn and look at the pump operator and say, hey, did you experience anything in that drill that you could have done better? what did you ignore? You know, again, 80 to 90 percent of the time everything's gonna go fine, but that 10 to 20 percent of the time that it doesn't affects everything on the down on the fire ground, period

Corley: No, and I can't think of lots of scenarios I run where they're they just the person on the pump operator isn't even involved in it. They just have someone has to do it, you know, but the the the funds over here or that's the mindset And so, hey, let me get my turn. And yeah, no, absolutely. It is a mindset Todd Birdsall says, what's your opinion on rotating drivers versus having steady driver position? Paul Watlington: I almost got a follow-up kind of a clarification need on that. Like rotating drivers. Corley: Go ahead, Nath. I think it means different person drives every shift. Or promoted position. Paul Watlington: So I'm going to answer the question in the respect of rotating per shift. I'm all about people getting, you know, getting that experience in in those, you know, specific positions, especially and I'm an advocate for write-up programs, right? I'm an advocate for you know, people getting that seat time yeah, there's no better example. Corley: He clarified. He clarified on UTB said rotating monthly. And that's what he clarified as far as the the details of his question, but answer it in whatever direction you want to take it. Paul Watlington: Okay. So rotating monthly on apparatus. You know, you got a couple of different routes you could take wouldn't when answering that. One would be hopefully the engine, all of the hopefully your engine are kind of comparable to each other to where if you get in one, you know, it's set up kind of like the other, like in Burlington, for example. you know, when you get out of the driver's side of the truck, the very first compartment is the engineer's compartment. That's where your appliances are. That's where your you know, your your things that you're going to access the most. So any of our drivers, if they have to you know, move stations or if they have to you know work a trade shift or something like that, they're They're going to end up, you know, pretty close to what they're used to. As far as like moving from an engine to a truck, you know, that's That's a hot topic right now. You know, especially around here where staffing sometimes does not allow you to have dedicated engine company and truck companies. You know, it's a completely different beast, you know, you know, chauffeur and a a ladder truck versus an engine company, right?

Paul Watlington: a lot of things that well I mean I'm not even gonna talk about the differences just because they're so they're so vast right they're so so I guess You know, the the the mechanics of a ladder truck, the overall operation of a ladder truck, completely different beast. It's it's almost like it's two different, completely different jobs Corley: Right. Paul Watlington: specializing in a position, being able to get the most out of it, being able to to master that position, I think is important. So if you're an engineer on an engine, You know, I I'm really not a fan of really not a fan of that that individual mastering that position. I'm a fan more of a fan of that particular individual mastering that position before they move over to another because I feel like if you rotate back and forth it kind of throws you off a little bit. Corley: No, that does make sense. That does make sense. no, I love the question so far. You guys are killing it. Keep them coming at Paul. And Paul, you're killing it with the answers. So what did you Rob Lyle wants to know what was your favorite truck to drive and operate? I like this question.

Paul Watlington: I really do. Oh man. All right. So I'm going to probably get laughed at with this one. Corley: Okay. Paul Watlington: I like it already. It's a 97 model KME. Short wheelbase. Allison Transmission. it's actually I I advocated for keeping it around and keeping it as our training truck. so that that's what we actually had when I was the training chief. We we still got it. you know, it's at our training facility now. But You know, manual throttle. I came up on manual throttles and relief valves and you know that's they're hard to come by now. I mean you don't see them, you know, a lot, but that was my favorite truck. The 97 model KME. I think my second one was probably the what what our engine seven is in Burlington. It's an old 2000 model Ferrora. it's also a manual throttle. It's it's it's had some maintenance done to it, but it's probably one of the fastest trucks we got in the city, and I I love driving the truck. I hated the max simply because I feel like I got my attitude every time I dribbled. Corley: Probably some story there. We'll get to the story in the after party for sure. No, I like it. The KME uses a short wheelbase, like a Pierce Arrow type short, short wheelbase type deal. Just turn turn on the dime or what?

Paul Watlington: Oh my god, that thing turned on the dime. That that is that truck is the one that everybody you know reaches for in when we're doing our EVD driving pad course. Gotcha. You know, everybody wants to drive that particular truck. Yep. Corley: Kyle Piverall once says, I understand and have seen the importance of a great driver engineer. How can I balance the love of being in the back seat with the department need of stepping up to the front left seat? Paul Watlington: That's tough. Corley: That is tough, man. Paul Watlington: I'm an engine guy. When I say I'm an engine guy, man, like I I enjoyed driving. That was probably some of the Well, I'm gonna say it's some of the most fun because every position has its different types of fun, but I felt like I was firing on all cylinders the most when I was a driver But man, it's nothing like that nozzle in your hand. That's nothing like, you know, making entry into a fire, man. It's it's it's it I get cold chills now thinking about it just because I've been off the truck so long, right? But You know, I tell all of my folks now, like, if I respond to a call, I mean I'm a white shirt. Yeah, I get picked on, but you know, if I respond to a call, I'm still a firefighter. So, you know, I I'm not in the response. So if I do show up and I'm if I and if I got my gear on, like don't lay a nozzle down beside me, man. it is tough. It's tough, but you you know you really have to to base your feelings on that around what your needs are at your department. You know, if your department's in need of dedicated driver operators, people that are really willing to put that much emphasis and that much detail and dedication into that position. then you just gotta be the guy, right? You gotta be that guy or that girl or whoever's doing that.

Corley: you know sometimes it's just not about you. Paul Watlington: It's just a lot of people Yeah I mean you you just got you gotta make those sacrifices man because I mean You know, good pump operators, good driver operators, they're they're hard to come by. I mean, you know, they just and it's not because they're not capable, it's just most of them are not just not willing, right Corley: Love it. Chris Wessels coming at you from Georgia. Worst trend and best trend you see in pumper design. Paul Watlington: Worst trend and best trend. that's tough. That's tough because we're we're just kind of like Adaptive, right? We just take what we get. Corley: No, I'll tell you right now the worst trend is the build times and the right. Paul Watlington: Oh no, when you go on that route, yeah, I hundred percent agree. Corley: No, no, I that's the easy soft toss. That that yeah, build times and and the what would I call I would say the raping of the American fire service by the manufacturers collusion, but that's what I call it. But you know, we'll see we'll see if they actually call it that for real so no great question and i'll get i'll make sure and get you in contact with him to talk about it yeah i'll be happy to talk john bailey wants to know what are what were some of your best maintenance rituals to keep your engine ready for action and looking sharp.

Paul Watlington: Oh man, that was man, I'm I'm parade ready all the time, right? you know my captain You know, when I was driving, he every Saturday was like a big maintenance day. Like every day we we did maintenance, right? But every Saturday was more detailed. So you know, he he he took things a little well at the time I thought they were overboard, but then I realized the importance of it. And it was a pride thing, man, you know, like Hey, take pride in your rig. This is your rig. You know, Alan Brunersini said that they're, you know, fire trucks are like godlike vehicles, right? They're they're It's something that that needs to be taken care of. And not to mention the fact that the citizens are paying for it. It's theirs. Your job is to take care of it, right? But one of the things that he he told me to do is like every Saturday, I want every compartment on this truck rinsed out and washed out So I would take everything out of one compartment, just kind of rinse it out. And you know, if it didn't have like drain holes in it, and I'm gonna probably get in trouble for saying this, but if it didn't have drain holes in it we we created drain holes in it you know but we washed all firefighters firefighters always adapt oh yeah yeah yeah So you know solvers. That's exactly right. So we washed out the compartments and we we we cleaned all of the equipment on the truck, you know, any road grum, a lot of the lot of the little things. he may he he wanted me to clean the frame of the truck. He was like, how are you gonna see a crack in the frame or how are you gonna see rust around a hole? that it used to be a bolt if you can't if you can't see the frame from all of the dirt and road ground. So I popped a cab, I I cleaned the the frame, You know, clean the inside of the truck. and he looked at me one day. I'll never forget this. I kind of got a little slack on my cleaning on the inside of the apparatus one day. And he said, Wattlington, come here real quick, man. I want I want you to see something So we he's he walks me over to my truck, my personal vehicle, and he says, I want you to look at your dashboard and the floorboard in your in your vehicle.

Paul Watlington: You and your wife, you and Laura, you ride around, you know, you go out to eat, everything's nice and clean. And I said, yes, sir. He says, why don't you do that to that fire truck? That's yours too. You need to take care of that fire truck just like you do your personal vehicle. The dashboard in that truck needs to look like that. The floorboard needs to be clean. If you take pride in those little things like that, then I know you're going to take pride in everything else that you do. You know, it and of course that's just pride in general. But you know, taking care of that rig, man, that that that's one less thing that you gotta worry about when it comes to are things working the way they're supposed to. Corley: Right on. Right on. All right, I'm gonna pivot. I'm gonna pivot. We got a lot. I like this one. Before I pivot it, we'll stay on engineers for a minute. minute longer because Luke Stevenson asks you from the future from Australia. He's asking you, what are your thoughts about whether engineers should still be expected to maintain fitness skills, fitness slash skills? To get actively involved as a firefighter. I've seen unfit members hide as engineers.

Paul Watlington: Go ahead. Oh, that's perfect. I'm so glad that question was asked because one of the number one aspects or one of the number one characteristics of a good pump operator, good driver operator in general, a good engineer is being physically agile. Again, I I relate back to that You know, you're working by yourself. You you you you know especially some of the low staff departments, you know, we're we're we we have three-person engine companies, right? you you got a crew interior and they need a a a vent van. They need they need another line pool. They need you know you're you're establishing your own water supply with a five inch or you know you might have a drafting operation going on if you're in a a rural area. You're doing all that in some cases by yourself. It's a heavy lift, literally, you know, for you know, some of the pump operators. So being physically agile There's a funny video that Jason Patton did on driver operators on YouTube. Looked that up. But You know, it's very being physically agile and being physically able to do the job is very important. It's not just about standing at the pump panel. When people say that hey, you're only busy for like the first five minutes of the incident, if that's the case, you're not doing your job. you you're moving, right? you're moving around, you're watching gauges, you're you know, you're moving handlines, you're You know, you you're getting slacked closer to the door rather than being piled up at the truck. you know, so it's it's it's a heavy lift. So being physical heads out very, very important

Corley: Great questions. Man, audience always brings the great questions. Now I'm gonna pivot because we've already we've talked about it a lot and I love the topic. And I like you said we would probably talk about it for two or three hours and you'd still have plenty more to give. But let's pivot to leadership because I I know it's a passion of yours Yeah. Like the leadership triangle. Let's let's hear Paul Watlington's thoughts on leadership in the fire service, whichever direction you want to go, and then we'll take questions from the audience. Paul Watlington: Oh man, so you know I probably I I'm probably not the person you would consider a leadership consultant, right? But you know, I I've made I've made the mistakes and I've had the successes and I have worked for some great leaders and I've worked for some terrible leaders. And what that has done for me is kind of mold me into what I wanted to be as a leader, right? It taught me what leadership was to work, and I learned probably more from the bad leaders than I did the good ones. You know, what I have found is that inspirational piece of leadership is the most important. I feel like leadership in general, it is what it is, and it hadn't changed. you know, you'll hear different spins to it, you'll hear different terms being used in leadership, but I broke it down So when I was in a training center, well when I was at the training facility, they they ran a lot of B L E T classes, basic law enforcement classes out of the training facility.

Corley: Okay. Paul Watlington: And so I was exposed a lot of times to more police officers than I was firefighters. you know, of course we had our firefighters coming to the training facility and we ran our academies, but Because I was exposed to those law enforcement officers the most, I polled them a lot. And I got a chance to speak to them and And I I challenged all of them for like two or three BLET classes. And I think it ended up being like 250 people total that I ended up polling. And I told them, you know, give me what you think are your three top characteristics of a leader. Just give me your top three. And of course they would give me a bunch, you know, but I put them all on a spreadsheet and then I sorted them and I looked at what was what was their the top three that were mentioned. Now you got to keep in mind too, this was in the last five, six, seven years. The three that I got the more the two of the three that I got were trustworthiness and competency. And and I was a little kind of taken back. You know, I was I was excited to see those things because obviously I think they're important, but I was expecting things like empathy, you know, I need I want that person to care, you know, I want that person to inspire me and you know listen to me and listen to me things like that. So But I heard some of the the traditional things, like, you know, I want that trustworthiness. I want my leader to be competent. I want them to know their job, you know? So I added another one to it because I do obviously think that those two are very important and I added decisiveness. And the reason that I added that is because I think all three of them go hand in hand and and I put those again in the fire train

Corley: Right on. Paul Watlington: With the same concept of if you take one away, you're pretty much screwed. you can be trustworthy and decisive, but if you're not confident, you're done. They see that. Corley: Make a lot of quick dumb decisions. Paul Watlington: But if you're not decisive and you're confident and you're trustworthy, but you can't make a decision, you're screwed. So and again, if if you know And for the third leg, if you're if you're decisive and competent, but you have given them a reason to not trust you, you're screwed. So you know, and of course those all three of those aspects or legs of the the you know the leadership triangle to me, all they're broken down into even more categories, obviously. but I I told you a few minutes ago, just in in the the pre-discussion before we went live, these two helmets, these two helmets on the wall mean a lot to me. me and hardly anybody knows what the what they mean to me you know because they they just see two fire helmets right one black one white But in between those two helmets right there is a lot of mistakes. A lot of mistakes when it comes to leadership, a lot of growth when it comes to leadership and that's for me. And the reason I don't have my other helmets in between them is because of where it started and where I am now. And I think about that. And you know What got me to that was the people that I surrounded myself with that were inspirational. So I turned that fire triangle into a tetrahedron. And I put that inspirational leg to it, right? I think inspiration is going to lead to confidence. Inspiration is going to lead to motivation. I think it's probably one of the most important aspects, if not in the past, especially now. when it comes to leadership. The the the newer generation, the people that me and you, some of the the, I guess, I hate to get into these terms because I'm not really a fan of them, but the Gen X's, you know, us Gen X's, the people that we're leading, they want to be motivated. They want to be They want feedback. They need that feedback. And as if you can provide that feedback in an inspirational way, To inspire them to keep, even if you have to correct them, even if you have to you know, discipline, if it's inspirational, man, it takes them to the next level.

Paul Watlington: And I've seen that effect directly That's one of the biggest things about being an academy instructor that I really enjoyed was being inspirational. My trophy at the end of the day was seeing someone else succeed Man, if I was to be able to see that that that recruit, that rookie, that probie that I taught in the academy, when they make captain, when they make lieutenant, when they make engine boss or truck boss or when they make battalion chief. They don't know this, but to me, man, God, I take that personal, man, because I remember being part of that particular person's growth. And inspiring them and leading them in the right direction. I might have been a small part of that leadership. Corley: Sure. Paul Watlington: But God, man, that inspirational leg of leadership I just I think it's probably one of the most important. I can sit here and tell you how, I can show you the way, but you know, if if you don't follow me How good of a leader am I, right? Corley: No doubt. Paul Watlington: I can walk the walk. I can walk the walk. I can be confident. I could be decisive. I could be trustworthy. But if I don't take all three of those things and put them together and inspire you with that fourth aspect. To follow me. You're not gonna follow me. And man, I I I've heard it a gentleman in a roundtable discussion with me from Saudi Arabia said it I think I'm gonna paraphrase it. If you're a leader with no followers, you're just taking a walk.

Corley: Taking a walk. Paul Watlington: Yeah Corley: No doubt about it. Just out for a walk. Out for a stroll. Yeah, out for a stroll. I love it. Kyle Piverall coming at you with the leadership question. He says, how can less senior members of the department Gain knowledge when the officer is disgruntled and checked out, possibly too far gone. He's a good guy, but no passion, lack of competency. Yeah. Paul Watlington: Wow. Okay. No no no. It's actually not tough. It's it's You can't stop. And believe it or not, you can make a positive effect on that individual the I guess the the best way to describe that is the the tail can waggle the dog, right? and what I mean by that I guess is you you still know what's important to you. You know what you need. You know, I don't don't don't take the request for transfer and move stations or quit or something like that as the easy way out. You know, kudos to you, by the way, whoever you are. I forgot the name already, but kudos to you for knowing that you you want to be where you want to be. You know, you got a destination And you feel like that that's an obstacle. You gotta you you gotta continue to push. You gotta look for educational opportunities. And I I'll tell you like I told my baseball team back in the day when I was coaching travel baseball You're not going to be good coming to practice two or three days a week. You got to do your part too, right? You got to do your part on your own time and you got to continue to push and continue. Because I'm going to tell you, man, the the day that you stop, we're all screwed. Those passionate people like you in the fire service, the day that you stop pushing, even when you see those what Anthony Castro calls them recliner snipers,

Corley: Sniper. Paul Watlington: I love it. Recliner snipers. Yeah. Corner mutts. Yeah. So you you're gonna have those people, man. You're gonna have those people. You're gonna have those people that have are relying on complacency to get by every day. Right? They just they they want to come in, they want to just ride the time, fence riders. but the day that people like you give up All of us are are suffering from it, man, because it's but but those leeches, those those leeches, those people that that just latch on and suck all of the positive out of you And maybe not literally, maybe, maybe not directly. Maybe they just create an environment that you're in that is just not a learning environment You can still at the learner level of that make an impact. Simon Sinek, he he's actually he's actually big on maintaining that maintaining that that need, that desire to lead, even at a lower level, because firefighters can lead, right? You know, back step firefighters are leaders just as much as your chief officers. And you can make an impact on those chief officers as leaders. You can make an impact on your company officer as a leader. All you got to do is just keep pushing, man. And what you're going to do is you're going to end up surrounding yourself or you're going to end up communicating or interacting with like-minded people and that's going to be contagious at some point.

Corley: Beautiful. No, it's a great answer, man. Great answer. I like this one on training here. We're going to kick around to the side. Can I can I stop you just for a second? Always. Paul Watlington: All right. I want to piggyback off of what I just said by saying, let me elaborate on going outside. For your education. yeah, I was watching the Truth from the Ducks with with Kurt Isaacson And you know, he he made a point to to say that, you know, you can't come to work every day and rely on your company officer to make you the best you can be. There is so many learning opportunities out there for all ranks. Okay. And I think this individual that asked the question were they're a firefighter. Corley: Okay. Or or This like it from the from the boarding of the question, yes. Paul Watlington: No, that's fine. That's fine. and it really doesn't matter. That's irrelevant when it comes to you know getting better. you know, man, I I got 25 years total in the service, 23 career total, and and I try to strive to be new at something every day. But I'm not gonna rely on somebody else to fix me, right? you know, sp one specific person. Man, on my 25-year anniversary, me and Lori's just a few weeks ago, we were down in Curacao. And Lori's over here reading her, you know, her love stories in her books, you know, and I'm over here l reading my love story, which is a fire engineer magazine. Right? So you know, that I seek opportunities outside as much as you know as much as I can because I mean if you rely solely on your internal resources to make you the best you can be, eventually you're going to plateau. Right? You eventually you're gonna everybody's gonna just know everything that everybody else knows and nobody's gonna get better. so you know I'm an advocate for outside education, I'm an advocate for bringing in subject matter experts There are subject matter experts out there for every aspect of the service, from every position on the fire ground. Take advantage of that. And I mean, you know, especially some of your state conferences, you know, if if you feel like you're in a learning environment that's stagnant and, you know, you're not getting what you feel like you need You know, look into state conferences.

Paul Watlington: I mean most of them in the United States are $100, $150. Man, that's like 10 trips to Wendy's, right? That's true. Corley: Good point. Paul Watlington: Don't make the excuses, you know, take advantage of those things man. So you know, just don't rely on just solely that. If you if you feel like you're being held back, you know, seek other opportunities. Love it. Corley: Absolutely love it. Great questions, man. Great follow-ups. as always, they kill it. Trying to see here. I like Nico's question here because he's asking, how do you encourage or implement tactical changes when your department doesn't see much fire duty? Especially when you got senior members who are Paul Watlington: kind of entrenched and say hey we don't go to fires we don't go to fires we don't go to fires anymore yes you do you know if you go to one you you you you're you're That's enough to to I keep I I hate to keep relating to or or relating back to sayings or somebody else's you know, quotes, but you know, Dennis Legier had a podcast years ago and I I took a snippet out of it and it's how how how we measure success And normalizing deviant behavior. If we don't look at tactical changes, if we don't look at deviation from you know historical tactics, best practices today, we're never gonna get better, right? I don't care how many fires you go to. if you if you relox solely on the tactics that you're used to and you're not out here looking for better ways to do things. You're missing out, man. And you're behind the eight bar and again, I don't care if you're in a a small department where you, you know, like a volunteer department, you might run one, two, three, four house fires a year, building fires. You may be like, you know, Fairfax County, FDNY, you know, they're they're running multiple a day. it doesn't matter when it comes to your preparation and and tactic or your tactical preparation. And and going back to the normalizing deviant behavior, how do we measure our success? You hear I I've heard this before. The fire went out, nobody got hurt. That's the biggest bullshit. That's the biggest bullshit measurement of success on a fire ground that I've ever heard in my life

Corley: Yes. Paul Watlington: and pardon my French, but you know, w there's if if you don't If a fire went out, but I think I'm gonna paraphrase this by the by the way Dennis says if the fire goes out, but it could have it, you you could have done it better, you could have been safer, you could have been more efficient on the fire ground, you could have gotten to the fire quicker. but you don't know you could have, or you could have gotten to the victim quicker, but you don't know you could have, because you haven't taken the time or the initiative to look and stay in tune with today's best practices, then you're normalizing deviant B You're normalizing it. You're making it the norm in your department. And it is irrelevant to your call voice. Because things are changing, man. You got people out here doing the work for you. You got people out here that are studying these tactics. You got people out here that are running these these scenario tests to see what works and what doesn't. You know, you stay in tune with that. And my God, man, when I say stay in tune with that, that's from the top to the bottom. I absolutely cannot stand seeing firefighters being held back because supervisors are not aware of what they're learning you know in in the service and and and they're being held back because You're on two different playing fields. When I say stay in tune with tactics, there is absolutely nothing wrong with oh I I I'm not even gonna say it like that. I'm gonna just say that it should be. if you're if you're a shift commander, if you're if you're charged with possibly standing in a command post, You should be also in tune with tactics. I know that you're not dictating tactics. If you're a company officer, it's not the chief's job to tell you how to do yours on a fire ground. That's your job That's more of a strategic position, but they still have they still need to be in tune with tactics so that they can understand their personnel But you know when it when it comes to that preparation, it doesn't matter how many house fires you got. It doesn't matter how many responses you have. stay in tune with those tactics and and be an advocate for that.

Paul Watlington: Even if you're the only person advocating for it, be an advocate for it. Corley: Yes, because if you're not and you're the only one, then there's no Paul Watlington: Yep. Corley: I love it, man. Great topics of discussion. Great questions from the audience, but I'm going to move it to book and books because I love talking about books. but I want to hear from you what books you think firefighters should be reading. Paul Watlington: So yeah I got a couple I've actually got one right here that I don't know many I I think Eckert had it. Yeah, Bobby Eckert had it. The manual yeah fire round tax Yeah. All right. So that was a hard one to come by. Corley: Oh no doubt, brother. Paul Watlington: But anyway, and I'm Mike Eckert. I I ended up w wearing the binder off of that one. if you're a fire officer, I highly recommend Frank Viscuso's 35 Things Fire Officer. Let me see. I got it right here actually. 35 Things Fire Officers Must Note. Yeah. Corley: Just came out this year. That one just came out this year, right? Paul Watlington: Just came out this year, yep. Hey, you can't go wrong with Jocko extreme leadership. There you go. Oh excuse me, extreme ownership. This guy, I'm not quite sure if anybody knows who he is. yeah, the nine ales Corley Moore. I actually got to do this. Yep.

Corley: I'll get you your twenty dollars later. Paul Watlington: Dina Ali's got a great one, by the way, Hope Out of the Darkness. I highly recommend that one. Mental Health does not get his day in court. Mental health needs to be even more of a hot topic in today's fire service than it than it ever has. And she has been a huge ambassador for that. So take advantage. Look for that book. Look for that book. If you don't have it, you need to get it fire ground tactics, hey, if it's not a book, or or if anybody that's going to FDIC, over 30,000 people going to FDIC every year. Go to fire engineering books. Look, look at the look at the the huge inventory of books. Yes. the the subject matter experts that that have provided those those learning opportunities there in the form of books. Take advantage of those. But I I I those are my favorites. Those are the ones that I got on my shelf. You know Frank Ritchie Command presence, huge one. Heck yeah. Yes, that's an awesome one. Corley: I gotta contribute a little bit. I gotta contribute a small blurb to that one. That was that was that was an honor.

Paul Watlington: Yeah, that was awesome, man. That's that's a good book Corley: Kick ass, man. No, no. And again, man, everybody you said phenomenal, phenomenal. Minus the 9-L guy. But great, great work. So we do a thing on here after the books. And it's one of my favorite parts. It is the five questions for firefighters. There is no correct answer to these. They are 100% your your opinions, your opinion only. Okay. And the points are arbitrary, passed out by me with the help of the audience. So Paul Watlington, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Paul Watlington: I'm going to win this by a long shot. I'm going to get high points. Corley: Okay. We will kick it off. Number one. You can do anything in the world. Except be a firefighter, what would you choose to be? Paul Watlington: If I could be anything in the world other than a firefighter. Magic wand. You could be anything. Well some of my some of my buddies, you know, Anthony Avilo, Todd Edward, they're gonna be mad if I say this, but probably a truckey. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm gonna go with I've always wanted to be an NFL football coach.

Corley: Okay. Coaching at the highest level of the NFL. Paul Watlington: Coaching at the coaching and and the Minnesota Minnesota Vikings in specific because I'm already aware of what their problem is Corley: are fair enough. No, you so you want to be the head the head coach, not a specific like head coach. Paul Watlington: I would I would that would be a wake up in a morning dream. Yep. Corley: Great I don't think anyone's ever I don't think anyone's ever taken that I I don't know if they've said coach before, but yours is very specific. So hey, I'm I'm ready to have time speeches. Paul Watlington: Have time speeches, man. Corley: Get them fired up. Max points right out the gate. Easy, easy max points off that one. I like that one a lot. That one connects to my soul. Number two, it's job town. It is time. You gotta think of that scene from backdraft. You're in route and responding, and the operatus operator is slapping that cassette into that tape deck, if you remember what those were. And what song are you choosing to play while in route? Ah and listen, there is a there is a Spotify playlist. Your answer will go into the playlist with all the other songs, but go ahead.

Paul Watlington: No problem okay. All right, good. I'm gonna have to go with if that's the case, I'm gonna have to go with something by never my hero. Okay. I'm not gonna elaborate on that, okay? I'm joking. I'm joking. Corley: that can't be found on Spotify, so that's okay. Paul Watlington: I'm gonna go with What? He's still laughing. Okay. I'm gonna go with probably one of my favorite hype up songs by Rage Against the Machine, Bulls on Parade. Corley: rage I guess bulls on parade i love it i love it and bull and rage will get max points each and every time although you had max you had max points with never my hero easy yeah yeah easy max points Points, no doubt about it. But no, max points two for two. Number three, tomorrow you wake up and you are the chief of department. You can do whatever you want. It can be a fictional department. It can be a department you worked at, it can be whatever, but you are the chief. What is the first change you are going to implement? Paul Watlington: Oh well. well considering my chief's probably watching right now, I gotta be careful. No. Corley: Again, it can be a fictional department.

Paul Watlington: It can be a fictional department. Yeah, that that's fine. Corley: yeah, I don't think I'll try to give you that blanket of protection so you can be as honest as possible. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Paul Watlington: That's fine. I mean I I everybody's everybody's different. Everybody's got different visions. But I I think Probably gonna get accused of copping out on this one, but I'm gonna probably have to go with there's not really much change that I'm gonna make day one. I need to sit back and evaluate how things are and I need to really see if the way things are currently the the current environment at that department is it may very well already be in line with my vision so you know and and I will bring my own vision you know and and And you know, I'll like I said, to see if that aligns with it. I need to assess things first. I really need to see what's already going on. Corley: No, it's a phenomenal, phenomenal answer. It really is a great. I mean, that is that is probably like an answer along that line of I'm gonna listen to my people. I'm gonna look and see what's going on. I'm gonna plug in and check it out before I come in there and start start making up a ton of changes. So that's probably the reason why the question's going away because that is like the it has that answer that that question has just too clear cut of a good answer And so again, max points. You crushed it, but I will probably be trying to replace that question. number four, on the clock. You get one minute to respond. Oh, we don't have a clock today, so well we don't have a clock because of the last minute change. but we will absolutely pull up my stopwatch here. Let me set this countdown timer Timer, one minute. Here we go. Okay, I got it. I got it ready to go. I can hit start timer here. You got one minute to answer on the clock. You're riding backwards. You're a backseat firefighter. Four people on the apparatus, including you. So it's a four-man. You can choose engine or truck. But four people, you get to pick one driver, one officer, and one fellow backseat person to run with. Who do you choose?

Corley: Go. Paul Watlington: my driver's gotta be Jack McGee Jack McGee from Backdraft. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Jack McGee, the driver from Backdraft, yeah. I'm gonna have to go with my officer, my my captain, my lieutenant, my engine boss, Corley Moore, Captain Corley Moore, with his energy. Corley: Yeah, with his energy key, Corley Moore, okay Paul Watlington: I'm loving this so far. My other nozzle firefighter who I'm gonna probably argue with on who's getting the nozzle or my my other firefighter, I'm gonna have to go with Kyle Romagus on that Corley: Oh damn. Okay. Paul Watlington: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and Kyle Romagus. Yeah. And I'll take that even further, and I'm going to go with Frank Ritchie or John Saka in the command post Corley: Yeah. I like throwing the command in. I can't get it to focus, but you finished with 20 seconds, not including the command post add-on. Easy. What do you call it when when you throw the easy chum the waters for the easy points for throwing Corley Moore in there somewhere? No, absolutely I love Jack McGee because he's the guy who slapped that cassette into that tape deck Paul Watlington: Oh, Jack McEl man. Corley: Job waiting time, boys. You're on your own. And then of course, man, I can't think of a better person to stick in the back with you than than the man, the smooth boy man himself. Dude, I love that. I love that. Cruel intentions. Yes. So again, except for that Corley Moore guy, you did pretty good. But four for four. Four for four max points. Number five, final question. Heavy fire. Searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on window initiated search?

Paul Watlington: I'm gonna have to stay true, man. I'm gonna have to stay true. give me the 7-8s. Give me the 7-8. I'm on the pipe. I'm on the pipe. But here's the deal. We still gonna locate and remove the victim. Corley: I love it. And we all, I mean, everybody said earlier like, oh, if that guy's grabbing your nozzle on the ground, we we know his answer to number five. So there you go. You stayed true. You stayed true, and you absolutely crushed the five questions for firefighters And that is five for five max points. Easy, easy, beautiful max points. And that officially puts 327 scraps in the books. My brother Paul Watlington, first of all, thank you for spending your evening with us. That's the first thing I have to say. Second thing is if someone wants to get a hold of you, reach out to you, find out more, follow up with stuff. What's the best way to do so? Paul Watlington: Probably the best way, Impactfire Training at gmail. com. impactfire training at gmail. com. If you reach out to me there, give me give me at least 24 to 48 hours to reply back to you. I'm busy. I'm I'm all over the place, man. But you know, I think my cell phone number is probably out in the public. It's it's on it's on my email you know signature, 336-504-5078. Hey, knowledge is power when shared freely, man. So I'm not ordining and lording anything. Like like you know, Aaron Fields says, is everything that I got is free to you, but you gotta give me what you've got, right? That's how this whole thing works. So any anybody that's got anything Anybody needs any advice on anything, feel free to reach out to me. I'd be happy to do so. But we sharpen each other, right? Iron sharpens iron. So don't be surprised if I'm asking something from you too.

Corley: I love it. I love it. Okay, new thing we started this year, which is I need a challenge from you to the scrappers. A one-week challenge from Paul Watlington before they watch next week's scrap on Tuesday. Something you want them to try and accomplish. of but it's a challenge to them to try and accomplish before next Tuesday. Paul Watlington: Yeah I got I got I've actually got two real sh real quick real short ones one, we we talk a lot about expectations, right? We talk about what we expect out of our firefighters when we're in officer roles and And then we we talk about what the firefighters expect from us as officers, but we don't talk a whole lot about what we expect from ourselves in our in our development, right? And and where we want to be, where we need to be as firefighters, right? So my challenge, my five expectation challenge is to write down five expectations that you have of yourself. In the next week, write down five expectations that you have for yourself and see where you stand with those and see if you got work to do with them. You know, and they need to be, you know, in in that that that progression, that pride, that passion that you have for your service, they need to be related to, you know, those those main two questions that those victims ask. asked of us when they dial 911, right? You know, are you coming when I call you and do you know what the hell you're doing when you get here? You know, that's the two big ones, man. And You know, set your expectations of yourself around that. Are you doing what you are you being the best version of you that you can be? are you in the right direction you know in in your learning process? your development process. Set those expectations for yourself. Write those five things down and you know see see if you're holding up to those. And the second one, the second one is Stop giving a shit what people think about you and embrace the target on your back.

Corley: Nice. Paul Watlington: If you're passionate about this fire service, man. Hey, don't embrace the target. If anything, thicken your skin so that those darts that get thrown at you don't stick. Embrace that target on your back because the day that you stop, we're all screwed. Forget, remember that. Beautiful. Corley: I love it. Final question for the evening is Someone you think should be on the scrap. I'm always looking to expand my my and there's 327 episodes. There's been a lot of people on, but who do you think should be on the scrap or back on the scrap? In your opinion. Paul Watlington: Ah, so I've actually I mean I've just from previous previously watching the scrap, I was already prepared for this one. I'm actually gonna go with somebody new. Some well, I have you have you had Raymond Dorr? Corley: Yes, sir. Paul Watlington: You have had it? Yes, sir. Yes. Okay. Corley: I was getting rid of the same. It's been a while. It's been a while. It's probably been I'd have to it's been a while, so. But it might not be a Yeah. No, one of my favorite people. I talk about him almost every time I teach a class.

Paul Watlington: One of the most impactful, inspirational people that it did and I'm man, I'm so blessed to call him a friend. We talk, we text back and forth. just super inspirational guy. And again, it just it goes back to just how impactful being inspirational is to development of other people. he's just he's an awesome guy. Corley: No, thank you. No, because again, yeah, Raymond's yes. All right. With that being said We have made it through. We got the scrap. We got the challenges. We got the guests. Housekeeping time. Vigilantes. Go to pay or everybody go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes and become a vigilante because vigilantes is where the cool kids hang out and the discord is up and running. There is so much going on in the discord. In fact, next week Andrew McGinn is the guest. He is a vigilante. He's also the, he won't put it this way, but I'll put it this way. He is the primary mover and shaker on the work of Circle. search which is the follow-up to the book of search. It is the work. I'm sorry McGinn, Johnston. Sorry McGinn, I was seeing your name on on the YouTube. Sorry, Johnston for calling you McGinn. I don't know who's more insulted. You guys have to fight it out and decide. But Andrew Johnston, thank you, Sam. Andrew Johnston has been the mover and shaker on the work of search. Andrew McGinn's been the mover and shaker on trying to keep my brain organized. Totally separate, but they're both Andrews. Okay, long story short, next week, find out all about the work of search and what the vigilantes have been up to for the last couple last month or so and it'll be pretty cool if you're not there you'll miss out. So that's next episode Andrew Johnston and Vigilantes as always the after party Well, I don't know how it affects Sam sending out the invite because we're in Zoom right now, but the after party will be right after here. We'll be we'll be roasting Paul if he's willing to come to the after party And it'll be a fun time. So next week, Andrew Johnson, work of search. Two weeks from tonight, it is Frank Leib. And you better get your notepads ready and bring your questions. All right, enough jabbering from me. After party time, thank you once again Paul Watlington for being phenomenal guest and bringing value to the fire service.

Paul Watlington: Thanks, Corey. Appreciate you having me, man. Corley: It is awesome. Audience, you make the scrap magical. You show up each and every week. And for that, I can never thank you enough. You bring the best questions and throw them at the best guests. And I just get to stand here and try not to get in the way. And it's awesome. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. This job is not safe. So stay smart out there