Weekly Scrap #271 - Mike Lombardo, Let's talk fire!

Corley: Corley Moore coming at you. Wanted to talk very briefly before the scrap starts tonight. And if if you know me, you know that I love the vigilantes. I love the like-minded souls and I'm always looking for ways that we can have more interaction. One of the things that every vigilante says when they join is they're looking to connect with those like-minded souls. They're looking to connect with other vigilantes and people who feel the way they feel. And so I'm constantly looking for ways to make that happen. So far, I love Patreon. I love Patreon for bringing us together, but it hasn't created that the the ability to share information and things the way I wanted. But one thing we did discover was that Discord is integrated into Patreon. So we've been working for the last couple weeks to launch a Discord server where the vigilantes can get together and hang out. Now I'll be the first person to say I am not a tech guru. I'm much better at forcing doors and and hooking ceiling. I'm better at destroying stuff than I am at using technology. But that being said, Discord has so many options that look like they could be phenomenal for the vigilantes and and for our growth and for the fellowship and the camaraderie that we want to share. It's got chatrooms that you can post in. separated by category where we can have great discussions. It's got voice channels you can jump in and have voice discussions with people at the drop of a hat without any without need to start a zoom call or anything you just drop in and drop out you can share screens we have plans people have plans to share classes that they've built so they can get feedback before they go and teach those classes I mean, there's so much that could be used for this Discord server, and we're just scratching the surface. So get in, come be a part of it, man. It looks to be an incredible platform, and if you want to be a part of it. Head over to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a part, man. If you're not a vigilante, why not? five bucks a month. You I it you can't even afford a fancy coffee nowadays for five bucks. So five bucks a month, you're you're a member of the like like-minded souls.

Corley: So come be a part. Looking forward to seeing and talking to you in the Discord. Stay safe. Speaker 2: In the demanding world of firefighting, training against real-world scenarios is crucial. Yet traditional training facilities often fall short in providing realistic, versatile, and cost-effective training solutions. Affordable drill towers presents a groundbreaking solution by positioning an affordable drill tower alongside your existing ComXbox's burn buildings, a realm of realistic, multi-level training scenarios is unlocked. This integration has been adopted successfully by various fire departments, enhancing their training capabilities exponentially. Delve into the heart of live fire training scenarios within the Connex box. Now amplified by the ADT's multi-floor access, providing an unparalleled training ground. Speaker 3: We started looking at connex boxes about probably 10 years ago. To me, you can't be them especially for the price. The affordable drill tower was the same way. We've got six floors, we've got standpipes in every floor, we've got more anchor points than you can count. We've got removable floors, removable stairs. We can go into the second and third floor off the drill tower. So whether you want us it as an external stairwell or a high rise, we can do all that and mimic just about any type of situation that the members of the fire department might encounter

Speaker 2: Experience cost-effectiveness, enhanced realistic training, versatile operations, easy multi-floor access, and innovative solutions to age-old training challenges Take your fire department's training to the next level with affordable drill towers. Reach out to affordable drill towers To elevate. Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 271. My guest tonight is Chief Mike Lombardo. He is a 47-year veteran of the fire service. He was the commissioner slash chief of the Department of Buffalo. Fire Department from January 2006 to 2010. Mike was a member of the development team for the New York State Firefighter Survival and Rapid Intervention Programs. He is a two-time Firehouse Magazine Heroism Award recipient. and the recipient of the FDIC 1999 Tom Brennan Training Achievement Award. He has the degrees from the universities. You can find him on the 2015 National Fallen Firefighter Foundation. Giving Courage, L O D D Chiefs Speak Documentary. He is a member of the board of directors of the Fire Department Training Network, where he represents and developed the Fire Command Program. He currently operates with the Christiana Fire Department in Delaware and the East Amherst Fire Department in New York. Man, there is that that that's just a small taste of everything, but that's small taste. It's my absolute pleasure to welcome him back to the scrap. I'm excited to have you here for episode 271. Welcome, Chief. Thank you very much, Corley. I appreciate being here. I'm excited. Is there anything I missed? I mean, there's a ton I missed, I know, but is there anything you'd like to add?

Chief Mike Lombardo: I was they played dodgeball in fifth grade. Corley: Were you any good? Chief Mike Lombardo: But otherwise I think you got it all. Corley: I love it. Audience, get ready. It's going to be a fun one. Get your questions in. Sam is watching. the chat. So if you get your questions in, he will throw them at Mike and get them in here and throw them at him. And with that being said, I will get the sponsors done so we can get to scrapping. So here we go. Let's talk about those beautiful sponsors com. Firefighter safety and accountability starts with being able to quickly find and identify individual firefighters operating on the fire ground. Identifier Safety combines the best in photoluminescent materials for durable firefighter identification solutions that can glow for up to 20 hours. No switches, no batteries, which means being able to rapidly identify firefighters by name, unit, or assignment, even under hot fire conditions. All designed and tested for the rigors of the job. Be seen on scene. com. And then one of my favorite people on the planet, Andy Starnes. Insight Fire Training Thermography Certified Fire Service Professionals. Insight Fire Training specializes in training individuals across the globe in the tactical use of thermal imaging cameras and emergency services. Insight Fire Trading developed the world's first thermography-based collegiate firefighter certification and trains firefighters, manufacturers, and industrial professionals across the globe. All right, there it is. Sponsors are done. We are ready to scrap. And Chief, last time we had good plans. We really did. And then of course we got to like a tenth of what we wanted to talk about. So today we're leading it off with line of duty desks. That's where we're going to start. It's a somber discussion, but that's where we're going to start. So I'll let you kick it off.

Chief Mike Lombardo: So I'll talk about two. Just to go back for a second, the Buffalo Fire Department's roughly 700 plus 750. members. And in their history, they were a fully paid department in 1880. And in their history, we've lost 116 firefighters. It's a pretty bloody past. It certainly certainly drove me in my career. And just my own time, I was During my career, we had 21 members killed in landing duty. And of those 10 of them, I was on the scene for in one capacity. or another one rank or another. So it's a very, very difficult thing. I hope if you've never had one good it stays that way. And if you had, you'd never have another one. The reality of that is probably not real. I mean, no matter what we do in this business, there's an element of danger that nothing could look out for no matter how hard we try. whether it's you know you see some of the most bizarre acts in the world explosions where something lands on somebody, you know, hundreds of feet away and shootings at fire scenes. I mean these aren't things that we can get ready for and say, oh, if I do this, it'll be okay. But having said that, we can do a lot to try and get things to be better. So the two I'll talk about is one was the last one we had, March 1st, 2023. I don't have a ton of material on it, but Jason Arno, a firefighter at Engine 2, responded to a fire in a three-story craft and theatrical supply store and they carried everything from clothing dresses and uniforms and this, that, and the other thing, to pretty large substantial styrofoam props and all different stuff like that One of the things that they had wasn't like they have clothes racks, but the clothes racks, a lot of them were galvanized pipe. Okay. And they so they'd be stronger, right? They could hold more, so on and so forth. And they had galvanized pipes. and as I said that sort of had a played a little role later on. The incident came in in the early morning, about 8. 30 in the morning. Crews responded They didn't have a lot on the side they were approaching from, but on the number two or Bravo side of the building, there was quite a bit of fire.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Crews started in with lines. And there was a number of events at the fire. And Sam, if you didn't mind, if you could play that first one, the shorter one. So if you watch that, you'll see a very, very, very, very big push of fire coming out the front of the building. Pretty explosively, and the fire engulfs that floor pretty quickly. There were four different events at that fire That one, it was at about 08 at the time frame, and then 017, nine minutes later, there was another one. And there were two others. The first one occurred and moved firefighter Arno quite a distance and he was off the hose line. He had been on the hose line. He was literally blown off of it. Oh wow. Crews started trying to find him. Guys from the rescue company. had hands on him, got to him, had hands on him, were trying to get him disentangled and he was wrapped up in some of these galvanized pipe wardrobes for the lack of a better term. And they had their hands on them. They were working to get them going, get them out. And the second event or a event, because I'm not sure 100% if it was the second or by then the third. But another event occurred and guys from the rescue Nikki Katanzaro, Kevin Kevin Lynch were in the building along with Chris Fuse and they were again this occurred this second event or further event occurred and they couldn't find Jason again. They were blown all over the place. And they were having a a lot of difficulty themselves figuring their way out. And Chris Fuse said, you know, I got an exit here, they couldn't find Jason. They went out, got squared away, regrouped, then re-entered, and they were able to eventually get Jason out unfortunately succumbed to it. injuries. So if you play that second one, on the second one, you'll see sort of in the middle of the picture or to the right of the middle, you'll see just a little puff of brown. smoke that's both the only indication of something different and then the second explosion occurs and you just see a little puff of blood and if you want to play dancing that second one Okay, and what I might have you do too is then play it again, okay?

Chief Mike Lombardo: That's what the song comes. Play it again, Sam. But if you play the Sure. Just you can take a look for that puff of darker brown smoke you'll see. And as I said it that a pretty good exposure occurs here. Two guys get taken right off their feet, completely backed over, operating two am instantly at the battery They get up pretty quickly and go right back to working out line. So they you know the guys certainly worked there tirelessly their best and do what they could, but unfortunately it was not meant to be. That report isn't even out yet. the diash report. ATF came and did a lot of Simulation work for that, so it'll be interesting. I I Have my things with NIASH reports. I think that everyone should study them. I think there's a couple things involved with them. So the first thing I would say is that Sometimes you got to be a little wary of the recommendations. Some of the recommendations, for instance, we had firefighter Chip John Croom and Lieutenant Chip McCarthy killed in 2009. And one of the things that they talked about in the recommendations was, you know, there should be clear and concise procedures for operating in vacant buildings. And we got a guy out of the second floor apartment. You know what I'm getting at is like you miss that. We got a guy on the second floor that wasn't a vacant building. Whether it was or not, it almost doesn't matter. But my point is is that I think a lot of times the recommendations are based off NFPA standards. And if there's not a standard for something, then nothing. There's no recommendation. I've seen fires where you're reading the narrative and it talks about 800 feet of inch and a half hose And it's like I always kid, what comes out of that dust?

Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Chief Mike Lombardo: That's pretty amazing. And but there's no standard in NFPA that says your pre-connect shouldn't be more than X, Y, or Z. So consequently no recommendation. But it almost seems like there's always the ICS communications, you know, so on and so forth. one and I'm sure they're all an issue don't get me wrong but I'd like to know really what happened you know what I mean I'd like to really know what happened And and unfortunately it's tough. And I'm not even saying necessarily it's always NIST or anything's fault. but like one of the things that'll happen is I like I did work, I told you, trying to figure out stuff about basement fires. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: That's an impossible thing to truly I mean almost everything I have is anecdotal. I go teach a class, they go, oh we the guy in 1997 fell into a basement and died. But if you go to the US fire administration or anything like that to try and get information, they'll say, oh, the guy died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Well, I'm sure medically that's what happened. Not that I don't care about that. But I'm trying to find out what happened.

Corley: What happened? What what did the circumstances? Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, right. There is no what happened. There's what killed them. And to sometimes that is important. But for our edification moving forward, it's important for us also to know what they're doing. And they have tried to get better, and I'm sure it's one of the hardest things in the world to do very well. well you know but that's the only thing i would just say as far as the narrative always read the narrative and really tear it apart see what really happened because it can be very helpful. But all I'm getting at is sometimes the recommendations don't really drive or match up with the narrative completely. Corley: And do you think it's just the hindsight mixed with the I don't want to say agenda, but trying to make the in it trying to make the standards match the the narrative? Chief Mike Lombardo: Or the You know, I don't know. I I would hope not, but I don't know. Okay. And and it it would be scary to think that that is possibly some of the factor of what's going on during that because it does seem to be that kind of thing. Like there's a predetermined, we think this goes wrong and all flyers right and it doesn't necessarily and then the only other thing I would say and and I don't want to pick on any generation because I think that they're probably is generations. You know, I'm sure when I came out people said these young kids they don't know a fucking thing of what they're doing and they blah, blah, blah, blah. So I don't think that's anything new. I think it just transfers, you know what I mean, to a next group of general group of people. But what I would bring up is the other thing I see is with NAS reports, and it's not about the NAS report. It's around them is I see guys, oh, what did this guy do wrong? And it's like, well, you know, first of all, let's do the absolute. Maybe the guy really did do something wrong. Well you know what he paid for that with his life right? Yeah, maybe they did something wrong, but they died doing it You know, have some respect. Now, having said that, a lot of people might think, well, that's young people, blah, blah, blah.

Chief Mike Lombardo: So I'll tell you about some young people the other way, I think. Just remarkable. and now it's a while ago now, but still it was pretty new. In August of tw 2009, we lost two guys, firefighter John Croom and Lieutenant Chip. McCarthy. fire in a delicate test and basement collapse. Two guys went or one guy went into it, the other guy was on the rapid intervention or fat we call it a fast team, firefighter assistance and search team and he ran into the building he hurt him he ran into the building ended up in the same hole that the lieutenant was in and they both died the Washington DC First of all, we didn't have a band at that time, a bagpipe band. And we talked to Washington, they came up and they did the whole funerals and they were just spectacular. I can never say enough. But the rookie class that was in rookie school in the Washington, D. C. Fire Department that week went to their instructors and said, listen, we'll come in on a Saturday. to make up the day and we will we've rented a bus and we want to go to the funeral in Buffalo for these two guys and I said I knew guys that wouldn't buy a hamburger in the list of the bus right when I came on and a lot of people like oh these young kids didn't Well these young kids, which I know they're not young now, they have 15, 14 years on, right? 15 years on. But then they were brand new recruit firefighters. And I couldn't, and they were standing out there and all Zay had his pants and a dress shirt. They of course didn't have dress uniforms yet

Speaker 2: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Standing at attention. And I nothing impressed me more. It ended up, I ended up going to their graduation and delivering the keynote address for there. class great group of people but i'm just saying that there's certainly hope there's some real good people still up there. Corley: yeah. And there's absolutely, absolutely differences in in values and and sense of humor. Sense of humor is what gets me the most as I get older. A lot of my jokes Just they don't get they don't get my jokes. Chief Mike Lombardo: Absolutely. Because it isn't on the f on fucking Instagram. Right. No, you're a hundred percent right. I you know what I like is They're we're we're diverging again, but right there's schools near me now, middle schools and high schools. You walk in the door, the kids, they have this big lockbox, you put your phone in it for the day Can't have your phone the whole day. Speaker 2: Hey. Chief Mike Lombardo: There's some parents like, oh, what if there's emergency? They'll get a call to you. They fucking survive for years without phone to their own. You know, they'll get a call to you But I think you need it at the firehouse. You know, I like coming to the kitchen, it's all quiet because there's eight people sitting around the table with their head and their phone And I'm like, what are you guys talking to each other? You know?

Corley: So they're snapping each other. Chief Mike Lombardo: And you know, like we have were no, I guess I didn't realize how out of touch we are but we even have newer fires firehouses with a big bunk room we don't have room do you have a room well you're a chief if you do it I do. But does everybody have a room? Corley: Well they that they have partitions, but they have one big room, but everybody has a has a little partitioned off area. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh that's okay. That's okay. The other thing too, my daughter spent 20 years in the Buffalo Fighter department. I always told people, you know, for all the, oh, it's for safety of women, the only time there's ever been sexual assault in firehouses is when the woman has her own room Oh wow. I think that's an interesting statistic. No doubt. No doubt. Big bunk room, those problems don't happen. You know, it's just fart noises and stinky stuff. Corley: Well yeah. That's called night the bonding. The bonding bunk room bonding. Chief Mike Lombardo: So it it's just interesting, it really is. But I do agree with you a hundred percent. That's a great point about the sense of humor thing. You know, it's just different, you know. but so the other fire I'll talk about is the incident was December 29th, 1996. And there was a fire on Inner Park Avenue. on the side. Crews responded, they had a three-story wood frame, mansard roof, balloon construction, 120 year old house heavy fire on the second floor extending into the attic so crews go up they start to knock down the fire engine 33's crew moves to the third floor Firefighter Dan Betting's right at the top of the stairs feeding line. Firefighter Donnie Herbert has the line and is over by the number four or Delta Wall. And two guys from my place. Mike Siegwin and Billy Sanford from Truck 11. Truck 11. You don't have to bow From truck 11 are operating on the roof. And a collapse occurs. When a collapse occurs, billion might fall into the attic and they're banged up, but okay.

Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: Now I have to step back again, I apologize, but banged up, I'm guilty of that too. We don't give ourselves enough credit What I mean by that is I've even gone on the news as a fire chief and said, you know, we had firefighters injured, but they're they're in good shape. They're going to be out. And at that fire, one guy sprained his wrist and the other guy got some burns. and from the fallen through the roof and fell, you know, nine feet or ten feet to the attic floor. and we brushed it off like it's nothing Think of anywhere else in the world in the workplace that that would be like, yeah, we're alright. Corley: Yeah, yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Imagine the insurance company executive in the high-rise in downtown Moore or Oklahoma City. and he gets his sprains his wrist and gets burned. Every party for the rest of his life is going, yeah, let me tell you this time, I went to fucking work. I got hurt. I got fucking I fell through a floor. I got burned. I almost broke my wrist. It was horrible. And we're like, yeah, that's called Tuesday. We're we're tough. We and it God bless us, we're tough. And God bless guys, they want to get back in the fight. everything else. But in the bigger scheme of things, we don't cry enough to the public. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So This collapse occurs. Mike McCarthy, Lieutenant of Rescue One, is in the right off the stairs. So the collapse occurs. Dan Benning and the staircase he's on. collapses into the second floor. So now there's no stairs up to the third floor. Danny has a fractured neck, but they get him out real quick and he ends up okay down the road. I mean the long remote recovery but low recovery recovery lieutenant mcarthy i i don't know if you know a mansard it's two hinge like this and hinge like this it's like a hip all the way around And the two hinge sides went in. And when it did, the only thing that hit Lieutenant McCarthy, Mike McCarthy, was snowflakes And he was fine. He didn't get touched. It was amazing. Wow. Billy and Mike, I told you, came through the roof and very sadly a year and a half later, Mike burned to death on the 4th of July at a different from fire a couple blocks away.

Chief Mike Lombardo: But over in the corner, Don Herbert, firefighter from Rescue One, was basically okay, but being crushed down by the roof and was being mechanically asphyxiated. So crews are working. A guy named Joe Victor, who just retired as a battalion chief, but he was a firefighter at the time. He got Donnie's head exposed and he was able to do mouth to mouth while he was still trapped. They got him going real quick. They got him to the front window. Guy from my crew, Tommy Jackson, big monster, strong guy. went up a 35 to the third floor window, put Donnie under his arm and climbed down the 35 foot ladder. I mean Tommy's a monster. Big strong guy. They got him down to the ground. They're starting CPR or continuing CPR. They get him to a trauma center, which happens to be right around the corner a couple blocks. So that was very helpful. They get him to the trauma center and in a very short period of time, very short, Donnie is spontaneous respirations and a decent heartbeat. So it's like, oh, this is good, right? Yeah. But he's unconscious, but not out of ventilator, but unconscious. Well, he stays that way for quite a while He stays unconscious like that for nine and a half years. Oh wow. So for nine and a half years, he's in this comatose state. And sometimes you'd come, they took him everywhere. He went to Chicago, he went I think it's a Syracuse, he went to EPA, and all these places said we can fix them. We know how to get them to wake up. We can do it. We can do this. We can do that. They tried and tried and tried and nothing. That was probably for the first year and a half. Then he ended up at a facility just south of where he lived, Father Baker facility And you know, his family and firefighters family would go and visit him and take him. The rescue used to pick him up and bring him to the firehouse every once in a while. and go to birthday parties and so on and so forth but he was just out of it and he like i said stayed that a long way so In April of 2005, Donnie is, you know, every day they'd dress him, put him in his wheelchair, bring him out to the nurses station where he usually hung out.

Chief Mike Lombardo: And someone might come visit him. Someone might you know depending and he this one day they bring him out there and he's there and he raises his head up and pretty clearly says where's my wife I want Linda to come here. And the nurse is, you know, flabbergasted because this man hasn't spoken since she's worked there. And he's talking to her and he goes, where's my wife? I want Linda to come here. So the nurse, you know, does the whole you know people, you know the paramedics know like you know where so she asked him where are you and he said I'm at my mother's house which he wasn't and she goes well where's your mother live and he goes 223 Melrose which was correct And and so she goes, we'll get your family. So long story short, everybody starts coming and family and he had four sons. One was in China on a school trip. He was studying abroad. And the US State Department, US Air Force had him home in like 23 hours. Oh wow. Yeah, they got him home real fast So people were coming in and as people came in, they wouldn't have you say your name, they'd just have you talk Talk. And like my wife and I walked in. He goes, hi Mike, hi Sandy. I mean, he recognized our voices, talking, couldn't see. but you know, talking up a mile a minute. And Talking and talking and talking and he's talking to his son Nick. So Nick's 14 now, right? And he says to him, You're not Nick. Nick's a little boy. Well the kid was four when it happened. Right. So he was a little boy. And he's like, no, Dad, it's me, it's me, it's me you know and they all were doing the same thing and it was very very emotional and so his uncle who was a police lieutenant at the time said how long do you think you've been out he goes all a long time he goes What's a long time? He goes, three, four months. And he goes, no, it's been 10 years, pal. Very sad. Then he goes, what happened? He goes, we were at that fire on Interpark, the wolf came in. He knew exactly what happened. It was remarkable. So he talked, he talked, he talked. solely but surely he talked less Well, excuse me, slowly but surely talked less and then eventually just didn't talk anymore.

Chief Mike Lombardo: And about it was about 40 hours He had fallen, a lot of stuff happened. There's actually a book, the day Donny Herbert woke up, about it, written by his cousin. But he didn't speak again and then in February of 2006 Donnie passed away from pneumonia. So we of course considered duty death. I know it was 10 years later, but we still considered it absent line of duty death well why I always tell that story is that's a little extreme, I understand, but guys should always remember when they're reading that NIASH report, it represents moms and dads, husbands and wives, kids, other relatives, their firefighter family, you know, and there's a lot of people that love that person. And this is the most devastating loss in the world. So when you're reading that, you know, have that in your mind too, that this one could be any of us at any time. But two could be how important that is to everybody else. It's not just about the technical side of that incident that happened. That's certainly a big part of it. Anything we can learn from it is absolutely a good thing but understand that there's a human soul involved in every one of those Daesh reports. It's a real good deal

Corley: And and it's easy to lose sight of when you're just sitting there reading the the text, the black and white text on a piece of paper. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's so technical, right? Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. No, absolutely. It is. It's so technical. It really, really, really is a big deal. So I talk about those two. There's others. We had a one December 27th, 1983, where we had five guys killed that's in frank leave and really goldfetter's book it's the in the thirty fighters you must know that's in there. And we and others. Lieutenant Jerry was killed by a wall collapse that we were at. Captain Dylan was overcome. on Seneca Street. Captain Duggan was overcome in an attic on Delovan Avenue or right off Delovan Avenue. So unfortunately too many. Yeah But so it goes why I talk about those is they've been a big part of my life as far as pushing me to try and And you know, make it the last one, which I know it's never going to be the last one, but you certainly strive to make it the last one. And some of that involves some of the training we've done and it brings me to a big thing. I just did a thing, I put it out on Facebook just under my name. the NFPA has a committee right now going and it's on the NFPA 14 series.

Corley: See the whole series, yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, so what they're gonna do is do 1400 will be 1401, 1402, and 1403 and I think some stuff from others, but I know that much. so to go back a little bit, long time ago, way b NFP 1403, I think came out in 19. 87 something 86 or 87. We were doing live burns way before that. We wrote some things way before that. and we started out doing acquired structures in the western New York area and doing fires in those. And you know, like anything, we started out not knowing a lot, you know, having been going to fires, but that's still not the same thing. But slowly but surely coming up with some procedures and and assignments and things that made quite a bit a lot of sense. And we started doing a lot of them. We did a lot around western New York. we had a band the brothers here doing it. And slowly but surely we did I ended up on the running the live burn team at FDIC for I think it was six years, five or six years. And we did it both in Indy and the West, which was out in Sacramento for a couple years almost. So so in Live Burns probably did about 300, 350 fire scenarios in live

Corley: Quite a few reps. Now, real quick, was this before 1403 or after? Chief Mike Lombardo: So 1403 came about while we were doing the FDIC. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: I tried to get on the committee and I don't know how you do that. I tried and tried. I wrote letters and stuff like that, but whatever. But we did a lot of them. And We came up with a lot of things that made a lot of sense. Some of the stuff didn't, you know, we learned stuff through doing it also. Some of the things that were a little counterintuitive made a lot of sense after a while. So for instance, our our fuel package was generally in an acquired structure was generally two pallets a bala hay and a cushion And some people said like, so first of all, we looked at the first NFP 1403 said that if you if known burning characteristics. Well I know exactly what a cushion will do, so I think it's fine. and that's up to interpretation whether that's okay. Now it's not. The latest edition you can't said well supposedly but one of the things we found we used to so again let's think about we're in a acquired structure right we're in a Two and a half story frame, private dwelling, right? And I'm in the bedroom in the back, and I want to get this bedroom going. I'd like to get it to flash over That's what we strove for. Get the cruise to come in, attack the fire, overhaul it, you know, do the whole thing, right? but I didn't want to burn the building down, right? Until I wanted to burn it.

Speaker 2: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: So one of the things we found if we did the two bales of or the bale of hay and the two pallets, pallets don't ignite like that. So to get the fire to the ceiling to mushroom out and then come down and flash took a while. So what was happening? Think about it. What was happening? Upstairs was getting heated and heated and heated and heated. So by being safe, you can't use a cushion, you couldn't use a couch, you couldn't use a chair or bed. That's what people thought, were more dangerous because we're threatening the floor above, we're threatening the integrity of the room. The cushion brought the fire to the ceiling instant well not instantly but pretty damn close to instantly. Corley: Yeah compared to the pallets. Chief Mike Lombardo: Compared to the pallets got the pallets going And we had a nice flashover and we could go back in that room and do it again in 10 minutes. I mean it was just remarkably better, but it's just little stuff that you don't get from anything but doing. So We did this fixed facilities, you know, whether it's containers to live burn buildings that they build today for a million bucks or whatever the concrete ones, whatever it was, gas fired, the whole thing thing i've probably done over 1500 1600 fires in those i mean just a dramatic amount all in the united states other countries but There's so many things that I see. So a lot of the built ones. So what's wrong? The stairs are monstrously wide. Right? If you look at 14, the stairs are ridiculously wide. There's not stairs that size in any house in America.

Corley: Yeah, unless you get unless it's a commercial structure, you're not seeing them. Chief Mike Lombardo: the windows are abnormally high, so a guy has a hard time doing VES because the floor is way further down than you would want normally be than a normal house. The window again is very wide. So getting a victim out of a window is something that is not being really taught because it's not the window that they would deal with at that fire they pull up to tomorrow Right? So we j we literally we've done training at you know the military used FDTN a lot. We've been to Japan and Okinawa in a lot of places but all over the United States and we'll literally put up boards on their burn building windows for a couple of days so that we can make them roughly the size of a window. Just to shrink them down. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That stuff's important. And I, for the life of me, can't understand why people can't understand that we need to train like we're going to. You know, it'd be the equivalent of you're in the army and you fire an M16 rifle, but that's what you carry into battle. But you know what, for training, we're gonna give you an M14

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: I'm never gonna carry this again. No, I know, but it'll be like that. Not really the same, but like that It'll have a barrel and a trigger, but you know, and the M14 is a much heavier weapon, but that's okay. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. Right. It just doesn't make sense. So then there's other things. Oh go ahead. I'm sorry. Corley: No, no, I just want to say do you think that's like what's the root cause of it? Is it just the the people who sign the checks have no though they don't have the 1600 burns under their belt. Chief Mike Lombardo: I think you know I I don't care. I I mean I'll get in trouble again. I think part of the issue With the NFPA system, and they come up with some very good standards on a lot of stuff. I gotta be honest with you, I'd much rather they concentrate on fire building stuff than they do on the Mural Goma Fire Department response. Because nobody's paying attention to all of them anyway. You know, I get fire chiefs all the time telling me You know, oh you use a I mean I remember being out in California, we were gonna burn a commercial building. And it was a huge place that was not old. It was 20 years old. I mean it was like holy Christ, they're gonna burn this, you know. But we had two pallets, some hay, and a couple of cushions, and the fire chief's fire chief of the department is there He goes, oh, chief, is it okay to use cushions? I go, well, it's a known burning characteristic. We're comfortable with it. We don't have a problem. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that. I go, why is that? He goes, well NFP 1403. I don't know. if that's really the interpretation that I'd use. I go, do you follow all the NFP's standards? They go, oh, Chief's like, absolutely, we do two. Toolfall we try to Oh, good for you. I go, how many guys are on the engine? He goes, three. I go, what's two? I go, so those ones are fucking other ones don't fucking matter at all, right, Chief I'm gonna have to go back to my office now. And they usually leave, right? But I I do think part of it, and this is where I'll get in trouble, is simply that it's a committee I mean, you know, you're talking to a megalomaniac narcissist, so it's hard for me.

Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, but it's a committee. You know, what how'd it go? A camel is a horse designed by the horse design. Corley: Yeah, built by a committee, right Chief Mike Lombardo: so I think that what happens is it's not so much even in experience level, it's that Corley went to these fires and did a great job and he found, you know, this, this, this, and this And Mike went here and found this, this, this, and this important. And Sam went to these and found this, this, this important. And so on down the line. And instead of saying, you know, one of the things I always told our truck committees when I was the fire chief, we had truck committees for engine, for truck, whatever. In conjunction with the union, we had a pretty decent operation going But one of the things I told the committee is I go, you know, when things conflict, someone has to make a decision and then it'll probably be me. But what I'm getting at is that, you know, everybody always looks, so Corey, do you have a ladder trucking more? Corley: Well we have quints and we call it a truck, but it's a quint.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Well you have you have a quint or more than one. Yes, we have quint. You have a new one. coming or not even coming yet, but you're gonna put a two a committee together, right? Okay. And you're on it and as the chief and the head of the committee And then you have like pick a number seven guys. I don't know. So, but the thing is, everybody has this idea that Bill has an idea. That's a good idea. Tom has an idea. And I can't think of one right now, but like at the end of the aerial device. We're gonna have a light here or whatever. And I'm like, but you know what I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah. What I think happens is I think a lot of guys think, well, one of them is stupid So it's an easy decision. No, everybody forgets that sometimes both of them are excellent ideas. They just can't exist together. Speaker 3: Together. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's impossible. So someone has to finally go, we're gonna do this. Right? Corley: Yes, the decision. Chief Mike Lombardo: Someone's got to make a decision. And I think the problem I see, and I could be all wrong, I've never been on one, with the NFPA committees, is that Instead of getting rid of anything, they bring in everything.

Corley: All the considerations go in. Consideration, consideration, consideration. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. Right. But the other thing is, so the other thing I'll go into is I do get upset. I do get upset. you can still see me, right, Sam? Corley: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: Okay. I do get upset because We don't have there are things in the standard, and I just want to make sure I have it right. There's things in the standard that are just Contradictory to anything. So I will give you some of the things we did. We did a lot of different stuff. So you know, everything from prepping the building, we looked for You know, different dangers, like what kind of what kind of siding is on the place, what's obvious where there are their exposures, so on and so forth. But we also did who are who do we have coming tomorrow? Right? We're getting ready tonight. Who do we have coming tomorrow? Do we have brand new guys? Do we have crews coming? You know, built-up crews of regular engine companies? Do we have people nobody's ever known you know what i'm getting all these no no app the the the the level of experience the level of compet competency yeah and have they worked together and so sure Right? But there's other things too. So when we had a reasonable amount, like at the FTIC, we had 24 students. And it was engine, truck, first new engine, first new truck, second new engine, second due truck, or engine tack backup right search and roof and then there was a writ team and then there was a team rotating out not do you know what I mean they were taking for a break yeah take a bro take a blow So those guys, those guys rotated in there and we did six fires every morning and six fires every afternoon. Wow. So the reason I bring all that up is we did certain things that may seem anal actually. a little but we did things like we said the same words so we're getting ready to light a fire we have to have light sets set up right Two pallets, bale of hay and a cushion, ready to go, we call. Engine one okay or attack okay. And we did that on what those departments use Attack okay. Okay, backup okay. Okay. first truck, inside truck okay, outside truck okay Red team okay, right?

Chief Mike Lombardo: And we got that back. So that team had four firefighters, or an officer and three, and one of us So when someone dropped the line going into the fire is the nozzle, our guy picked up the nozzle. Corley: Gotcha. Chief Mike Lombardo: And I gotta tell you, over 30 years, that didn't happen just once. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: We had some of the craziest, funniest things And I will step back for a second. We did a lot of live burns. And in all those years, we had a guy with a twisted ankle. And we had a guy who had a piece of drywall fall and hurt his back. back nothing bad you know gouged into his back a little bit that was it thousands and thousands of firefighters later we did pretty well and We had so we did that, right? We did, you know, engine okay, truck okay, so on and so forth. Then our next thing, and every one of those had an instructor. Then our next thing was we're all set. We're lighting, we're lighting, we're lighting. Now we had some crazy things. And this is what I'm getting at about, you know, doing this training. You have to be ready for that. little bit. You have to be ready for the things that go wrong with that. I had a guy actually tell me when we lit the fire He starts in with the nozzle. It's black to the floor. He's going down the hallway. All of a sudden our instructor goes, hey, hey, hey, Corley. It wasn't Corley, but hey, Tom, Tom, where are you? Tom, where are you? Guy left And he literally, so our instructor picked up the line, put the fire out, and our the instructor came back out and he goes, what happened? And he goes, well, when you said it'd be like a real fire, I didn't know you meant it'd be like a real fire.

Corley: Like a real fire. Chief Mike Lombardo: And it was pretty funny, right? It was pretty funny. Corley: Yeah, I can imagine. Chief Mike Lombardo: And and it was crazy. I mean, he was perfectly serious. I didn't know you meant it'd be a real fight Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. And I used to tell people we'd have a little briefing in the morning, I said, the difference between this and any of other fire you go to is we know what time it's gonna start But it can kill you, it can hurt you, it can burn down half the town, whatever. So our next thing was we're lighting, we're lighting, we're lighting. We had already checked with every crew. Are you ready? Yes, we're ready. I'll give you another one. We're in the southwest and we're doing a hospital fire in a hospital oh well I burned an old hot well not that old a hospital but they're getting rid of it And we do that in the first fire, our safety line puts the fire out because their first two engine said, well, when you said, are you guys ready? We didn't know you wanted us to. be ready. Corley: You didn't you didn't mean actually ready.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, you didn't know that. And the truck's coming in, the second engine comes in, they got a piece of the fire, but our safety line put the fire up But it's just, but all I'm getting at is, and in most it was fine, but we did have issues. We had another one. Cruise first fire. We're all ready. We got Attack line, backup line. Backup line's important. You know, if they didn't have enough guys, we still had a backup line. The truck was shorted. Right? We had an engine with a attack line, an engine with the backup line but those were students each with an instructor but a student right backup was part of the operation right the firefighting drill operation backup is part of that attack backup up inside truck outside truck or if you're short of that split the truck whatever split the truck inside outside attack back up inside truck outside truck writ and then if we have enough people someone's rotating through But we do this and the first line comes in, lines ready, guy goes to test the nozzle he opens the line a little s literally a squirt comes out he shuts it down they get to the fire opens it up and he's done no water comes out line's rigid there's No kink, there's no line blown up. So the craziest thing I ever saw.

Corley: Something blocking it or yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well yeah. So they've got new hose last week And it's rolled, right? Okay. Yeah. And in the interior where the male coupling is of the roll They have a piece of sponge, like harder sponge, right inside the hose to protect it from the hard bend and shipment. Corley: Oh, okay. So it doesn't get that permanent kink on the right there. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right. Yeah. So no one looked. Corley: They shoved it right through. Chief Mike Lombardo: They opened the lineup. And that initial spurt was just what got in ahead. That was it. Nothing came out. So anything can happen, but you got to be ready for that. Right. You got to be ready for that doing that. So another time or the safety line. So the other line I will tell you about is, so we don't call it a backup line, we call it a safety line, and we consider it to be a very different thing. Very, very different thing. Safety line is in is staffed by two of our instructors. Okay. And at the FDIC years, the last three years, my daughter came out. She spent 20 years in Buffalo, and she was on the safety. Because I knew I used to tell her, I go, if you get killed, it's better than if anybody else gets killed. But but you know that was an important job Real, real, real important job. At FDTN, every fire we have, there's a safety line. And it's in position that the last thing you as a student go by is the safety line before you go in the fire. The absolute last thing. If we're doing it well, you don't even know we're there. You don't even routinely people come by and I go boo and scare the shit out of them. But they have no idea I'm even there. But the safety line's there with two instructions instructors, safety instructors. And that's a big deal. And that's the biggest beef I have with the NFPA on this. They've never had it before. Oh, that's the backup line. Do you know in 1403 where the backup line can be? No, I'm not on the floor below of a multi-floor building or outside the building

Corley: Oh wow. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well then it's not a safety line. It's a fucking line that you hope you can get back in when guys are dying. And listen, we've had a lot of firefighter deaths. in training fires, right? I mean there's been all over the country different things many people know about them And my argument has always been that I bet you if I had a safety line where we place it No one would die. And you know, none of these were catastrophic collapses that tracked people and killed them. It was almost always Fire envelopes. Corley: Fire events, right? Chief Mike Lombardo: And if I'm sitting across from the bedroom we light on fire in the other bedroom that we brought the line over the front porch because we're on the second floor and we're hiding in that bedroom. the if things go completely wrong, there's a sponge in the hose line, the fire truck takes a shit, whatever. We can apply the 40 or 50 gallons because they take nothing to put out, even flashed over. They take it's a room. They take nothing to put out. We can put that fire out with minimal amount of water very safely and none's the wiser. And we had two at times. I gave you a couple instances. We've had two at times put the f fire up right but all I'm getting at is is that that is critical in that thing I wrote I talk about where is it now yeah, I talked about words matter. Oh, the other thing I wanted to bring up. So one of the things that I see today, we have a proliferation of ticks. And I see it manifest itself at live fire training. I get three guys in a room, all with cameras, all looking at cameras. Right?

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Like go search. Then the other thing, I do it all the time. Now I ask guys how how hot is it in there? And they go, 563 degrees. Do you give a fuck? What I always tell people, oh, you know what it is in there? Hot. Corley: Hot Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh well what is it? Does it matter if it's 563 degrees or 714 degrees? Corley: No. Chief Mike Lombardo: I mean, no. Corley: At that point? No. Chief Mike Lombardo: No. It's hot. And go put the fire out. And I mean like that safety line, like at FDTM, we've perfected it pretty well. We have a live fire training class now. on how to do one, how to set up things, how to do a burn barrel, how to have crews how to identify crews how to keep control of crews you know there's guys two groups of four two groups of three come together they're lost They can't find each other. They are completely befuddled. And as an instructor, you have to be able to keep control of them. that. You know, that's a big, big deal. so we do that. You know, they come up to the me if I have the safety line. If they come up to me with the safety line, I always go, it's engine five, I got this room, but there's still people I think down the hall call for help. Okay. And I go, was any instructors up there? They go, no, we met a guy from engine five. I go, there are five engines here. No, you know.

Corley: Right, right. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, one of the things like the fixed facilities. I just said some of the things. I don't know if you have one and if I hurt people's feelings, I apologize. does but every almost all the ones I see especially the more high-end ones have thermocouples in them if you ever see that right and almost a solid 60 probably more like 75% that I've ever been to, they go, oh, those haven't worked for years. Like a really nah, they don't fucking work. Right. And I just find it amazing. And again, I go back to It's hot though, right? You know, it's like technology today. I know we try and strive for everything and oh it's an expandable platform. For them like the SCBA cameras, have you seen them? Corley: The in the mask, the little little situational awareness type. Chief Mike Lombardo: gauge yeah it's like on the yeah yeah and it's like I'd like my SCBA to give me air and let me know when I'm low on air And other than that, let's get rid of nine or ten batteries. Let's make the fucking thing lighter. You know, like I said, I started here doing this 47 years ago And Scott 4. 5s were brand new. Just and I thought, these are because you remember what was before the two A's? They weighed a ton. And I thought, man, when I retire, it'll be a little thing like Star Trek you put in your mouth and you'll be able to breathe.

Corley: Who knew? We just got bigger and heavier. Chief Mike Lombardo: We have, they're heavier than they were when I got on. It's insanity. I mean truly insanity They make a 75 minute bottle. So what kills most of us? Corley: Exactly. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right? So let's have you work longer. and carry more weight. That's an absolute recipe for success, right? Corley: Oh yeah. Catching your sarcasm. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. I mean it it's that's gotta be perfect Right? That'd be like, I know you're a swimmer, but here, take these two bricks with you. Right. You'd be able to build a building and stand on the bricks and get out of the water. How about I just don't take the bricks and just I can float on the water. I mean it's just we get ridiculous. You know, one of the things that's going on now, I don't know if it is in Oklahoma, but some places, it's a big push against OSB. Yeah. For training. Yes. Concern carcinogens. Now I am sure, I don't, I don't doubt a bit That OSB puts off carcinogens. I just think so does pressure-treated 2x4s, drywall, paint, carpet, linoleum. wallpaper, couches, television sets, refrigerators, TVs, computers, and the list could go fucking on and on. They all also give off Car. So if that's the case, we don't have a OSB problem. We have a fucking gear problem. That if we're getting carcinogens going through our gear, then design our gear to not do that or at least limit it. And they are trying that the hold particularly But my point is that we're focused on, you know, it's it's like focusing on drunk drivers that the car is the problem, right? That's not probably the case. It's the guy drinking, you know. But we just have to do a little bit better. But like I say, the last thing, and I'm going to reiterate it a couple times. the last thing a student should go by before they get to the fire room of an of a live burn training is an instructor staff safety line.

Corley: Safety line. Chief Mike Lombardo: Absolutely. And my understanding, I'm not sure, but I think it's not changing for the 1400 Standard. They still call it a backup line. It can still be outside or on the floor below. Corley: Now real quick. Is 1400, is it done? Is it still in consideration? I didn't look and see where what stage it is at. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's not done. I don't know when comment periods can open. Corley: Okay, okay. Just so so we can make comments, like we can get the audience to to chime in and make comments. It hasn't hasn't closed that part yet. I don't believe so. Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: So what do I know? Right off. Like I said, I tried to get on the first one and to no avail. But in this one I am retired, so I'd have to have some other kind of focus to be able to do that. Corley: Well you are putting it out. I mean you're putting it out there and then and then hopefully when they open the comment section we can go in there and make comments and and make some have an impact on on if on the final version Now I want to get before we go, I want to get some questions coming at you from the audience. I like to involve the audience. this was very there this was a nice broad soft toss right out the gate. And it's Marcus Roos, and he says, can you pass on a word of wisdom for someone who wants to promote to an officer? So very soft toss, you can go whatever direction you want.

Chief Mike Lombardo: So The things that I find important in an officer, whether I was a chief or whether I was a fireman, looking at the officer or myself as one is knowing your job. You know, you want to promote and you want to do it. Don't worry so much about what you think that they're looking for and so on. And so forth, as much as knowing your job. You know, I have people tell me, well, I delegate that. You know, I'm a company officer. I have to know what every guy in my crew does for a number of reasons. One to know if they're doing it right If I don't know what they're doing or how to do it, I don't know what if they're doing it right. Two, every now and then something weird happens. They get hurt, they fall down, they Can't continue for whatever the reason. Things have to get done. I have to know that, right? But three, that falls into I'm not gonna ask anybody to do something I wouldn't do I do everything they do, right? I you know, training-wise, I was captain of the rescue, so we did surface rescue. for water. And we'd go down to Erie Basin Marina. It's summer day, beautiful, thousands of people hanging out at lunchtime. And I'd get off the rig and go, we got a water rescue drill. They go, Oh, when? I go now. And I'd go and I'd jump off the pier. Right? And I'd flounder around. They'd have to come out, get the suits on, get me, get me brought in. There's a bulkhead at the end. have to get me up. I'd go to the apartment building and you know take my clothes off down to my underwear and get in the bathtub six floors up. Get the aerial up, get me out. Right? Try not to drop me It's a long way down. But I have to do the drill too sometimes, right? When I had a guy on a list, I would always have him sit in the front seat for a while. Right, and I'd sit in the backseat and I'd be on his team when we went in to do a drill, right? You know, you need me, I'll do what you tell me, but I'm new, so tell me what to do. Right, because you're gonna be doing that in no time at all.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Because our you'd get on a list and in a short time you'd be promoted. Or could be, right? Could be But if you want to be an officer, know your job, know the other jobs, and just do it. You know, don't don't ask people to do things you wouldn't do. Corley: Boom. There you go. Beautiful question. Thank you, Marcus, for the question. And thank you, Chief, for the answer. This one's coming from someone named Random Chatter. in the chat, but his name is Random Chatter. He said, Chief, do you think the fire service turning to more technology is good or bad skill-wise? Do we rely on technology over learning and being really good at the skills, or can they coexist? Chief Mike Lombardo: So I think they can coexist. I'm not an anti-technology. guy but like the the thermal imager don't it shows me where i don't have to concentrate so much much it you know that's a an example of technology I'll use it specifically it doesn't see through anything You know, other than well smoke, but it doesn't see through any object. So I see people get in trouble all the time by that. There was a fire I did an investigation for where they were a man died in a furniture store and a crew said it was so hot in there everything whited out and I go show me exactly where you were They showed me and they said, yeah, the top the camera, everything whited out. And this is a tough thing. They were heartbroken. They were upset. They ended up sit kneeling or crouching behind a couch. They didn't realize that it was two feet in front of them. The camera didn't white out. They were looking at the back of a couch.

Corley: Back of a couch. Chief Mike Lombardo: Didn't change. Right? And all I'm getting at go back goes back to the three guys with the cameras in the room all looking One guy with camera. And I can tell you, Corley, I can see up to the bed. You're clear up to the bed, but I can't see past it. Right, you know what I mean, and now I'm helping you do some, but you still gotta get the other side of the bed. So technology that way is a big deal. The other thing is The technology of some of the dispatch slash size up of software can be very helpful. You know, going from I know where those streets are. to on the way I can look and see what the building is. Corley: Building, yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: That's amazing. No. That's amazing. However, what I get upset at is make sure it works for you, meaning the fire department. So a lot of places I see well you got to go down the line and you gotta type in the address. Listen, I'm going down road on a fucking street that has speed bumps in Buffalo. No, no, no. They put in speed bumps all over the city for drug activity and for the motorcycle kids and the four-wheeler kids. But you're going down on the street in a fire truck bouncing like crazy. You want me to type in a keyboard the address? You you didn't help me a bit. You know what I mean? No, absolutely. should come to you. Those are little things, but it should come to you, you know? so I think that technology can evolve And can help us. So there's a lot of stuff too, and you may remember, but going way, way back, you know, I remember Moog Valve had a radio controlled hydrant valve. in the 60s or 70s.

Corley: Oh wow. No, I didn't know that. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh yeah, yeah. You hooked up to the hydrant, then the guy ran to the rig and the pump operator could press a button and the valve open Electronically. It's gone. No one ever must have bought it. You know? But it's 50 50 years ago. 50 years ago. I always said, you know What do you got on a quint six or seven guys? Corley: All right. Well, we cross staff, but there's five. yeah, I wish. Chief Mike Lombardo: How many? Corley: No, we have our our staffing is five. Four is the minimum. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh good. Corley: We're very blessed. Very blessed. Chief Mike Lombardo: You're doing okay. Seriously. That's amazing. Corley: I was a little being a little facetious because a lot of people No when you said eight, I was like I started to feel bad because I'm like no we don't we only have four. Chief Mike Lombardo: But I was like one of the things that I get upset, so You familiar with the Mayday project? Corley: Absolutely. Chief Mike Lombardo: Don Abbott. Corley: Don Abbott? Yes. Now Basil's take yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. 71% of Maydays occurred when the company officer went into the build or excuse me occurred when they stayed outside the building while his crew went in. Oh 70 70% 71%. percent occurred where the company officers stayed outside to be the incident commander and I always said you're the only ones there there's four yeah you know what I mean who are you commanding go with your crew Right? Go with your crew. And you know, a lot of there's a lot of small departments. Five, six, seven guys are it. And I always said, really?

Corley: Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely. Chief Mike Lombardo: I always said, you know, every guy you lose, it's gotta matter. Well, this guy's outside, this guy's outside. Outside, why can't the pump operator in this day and age be the incident commander? I mean, I know people think, what are you crazy? But seriously, it's a preset button now Right? They can't make it more like that's done. Now I sit outside. You know, and you get good pump operators, they're throwing ladders, they're doing a lot of stuff. Corley: They're proactive, yeah, yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: God bless them But I'm just saying that's command. They are already outside. If you have a top mount pump, they have a better view than anybody outside. Corley: That's true. That is a fact. Chief Mike Lombardo: It really is. But you know, we can't be in a position where we're losing the company officer, the pump operator. Now there's a guy with seven months going in the building with the line. I mean, it's crazy. It really, really is No, no, yes. Corley: I did not know that stat from from the Mayday project. Chief Mike Lombardo: That that is eye-opening. The next time because the amount of Maydays change. But that was a pretty and I think also people were upset about that. Because there's a lot of places, you know, that guy's out in front.

Corley: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That's in our it's on our SOPs. Our our current SOPs is that the first in officer is the the command and he's he's supposed to set up a stationary command outside. Chief Mike Lombardo: So what's his crew do? Corley: Now you go to work and yeah, you're right. It's it's actually taking people away. Chief Mike Lombardo: So I just I just think that also, what if it's the newest crew in the city, right? The officer's the only guy with any experience. Corley: Hey, and I'm telling you, with our turnover, not not turnover, but the because we don't have a high turnover rate, but with our retirements, we have a very, very young department over the last five years. Very young. We have some very young crews. Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: And that's a factor. That's a factor. Corley: Oh, it's a huge factor. And especially with the fires being down, like the number of fires, you know, fire fatalities are up, but fires are down. But they don't get the same experience that they used to get, you know, in in the same time frame. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, I always said we used I think I told you the last time, we used to always cheat. You know, people say, What do you mean? I go, you know, guys go, I I'll go to an event and guys go. Oh, it's a pleasure to meet you. You know, I never worked for you. I wasn't hired by them. But you know, you guys were amazing. You were going to three, four, five fires a night. That was true. We did. You guys did a phenomenal job I go well don't tell anybody but you know when we went to three fires a night the first fire was all fucked up The second one was better. And then we were great by the third.

Corley: Third one. We had it down to a science. Chief Mike Lombardo: But the difference was we got to get better the same night Not four months later. Do you know what I mean? Seriously. Corley: No, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and it goes right back to what you said earlier, you know, the M14 and the M16, because even when they train, they're still not training with what they're gonna face. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, you know, that goes back to my argument about the live fire training. There's places where they do virtually none. Even for recruits, and I think that's really, really, really troublesome. Even for recruits, they do very little training. And maybe duty crews do it hardly ever. You know what I mean? If if at all And it's tough. We're the only team in town that doesn't practice. The hockey team, the football team, the basketball team, they all practice. We just figure we fucking know it. Corley: Yeah. They practice like five to one, you know, or three to one, depending on their schedule. Three practices for every game or four practices for every game. Absolutely. And we and we do, I don't know, I don't know what I mean, I'm not saying we as in my department. I'm very proud of our training regimen, but the American Fire Service as a whole, we just So yeah, we'll handle it when we get there.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Very much so. And and the busier we get, so I'll go back to The fire chief for a minute. The other part is Kenya train. So more and more and more and more you see crazy numbers from the perspective of runs, right? And places that never used to do a lot are do a lot even if they're not going to fires there you know maplewood new jersey i think the first two engines did over five thousand runs maplewood new jersey you know there's companies in san francisco doing breaking 10 000 runs mostly single companies or single companies wow breaking 10 000 runs Mostly EMS. That's draining. And you are doing no training. It ain't your fault But you're doing no training because when could ya? Corley: No, absolute. 10,000 runs, you kid you'd be lucky to Catch a cat nap, yeah. Yeah, you'd be lucky to eat. You're not you're not getting sleep, you'd just be lucky to catch a catnap. Right. Let alone a snack, a Snickers bar. Chief Mike Lombardo: But so is there a more police department? You have a police department Corley: Oh oh yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. So do you think they go, hey Sergeant Moore, today grab four or five of your guys and pretend the bank down the street's being robbed and do a drill They'd look at you like you're fucking crazy, right? Yeah. They come in on overtime. They, you know, whatever it is or they have a half a day or a day each month set aside that they're not on the street and other guys are on the street and they do training. We're the only ones that like, well you're not doing anything else. You can train. And that's fire chief's fault. Do you know what I'm getting at?

Corley: No, no, absolutely, absolutely. And and it the other part of it is the the creep. It's like it's not just mission creep, which I think is is is an actual you know loss of focus on our mission, but That's a separate discussion. It's also the duty creep. It's like, well, you guys can do it's only this. You guys can do this. Or hey, it's only this. You can do this. And it's just little things at a time until it's death by a thousand cuts. Chief Mike Lombardo: And you know what happens too, Corley, is and I, you know, you see the department, well, they're gonna do baby seat What do you call that? Corley: Yeah, the installation. Yeah, yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Installation, right? And it's like, who the fuck thought this is a good idea? I mean, I don't mean to be an asshole. I don't want a baby to die But it's the typical fire department. Sure, we'll do that. We can do that. We can do it. on our off times. so When you're doing the baby seat installation, the call comes in. Do you go or do you skip it? Or does someone else go? Or you know what I mean? And it's like what else can we take on? You know what I mean?

Corley: No, and here's the crazy part on the because you use the car seed analogy, and this is the crazy part, which kind of ties back into what we're talking about. To actually keep that certification took like 40 hours of recertification training each year And to yet to to be a firefighter, there is no you know, recertification training whatsoever. And it it's just crazy. Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: No, I always use that about bloodborne pathogens. In New York State, it's a law, not a rule, not a department thing, not a department of labor thing. It's a New York State law that every year you have bloodborne pathogen training. Now I can't imagine that like Corley, your training was two weeks ago, a year ago, right? You're two weeks late. Now, if you go take a shit, I can't imagine you'll shit all over yourself because you forgot. Forgot. Yeah. Know how to take care of yourself. Right. And that's what we end up with. But I always say, who stretches the line every year? I mean everyone's like well of course everyone does. Do they? I don't know. I'm serious. Corley: No, no, it it's a valid. They think that they train. You know what I'm saying? They have a perception. They have a perception that they do.

Chief Mike Lombardo: They train it all the time. And then the other thing, and my wife always tells me this She's much smarter than me. She goes, you know, you guys are too, and it's very, very true. She goes, you guys are like fucking goldfish Right? Like oh yeah. Oh bright shiny thing. Oh bright shiny thing. Oh bright shiny thing. And whatever the new bright shiny thing is We do. You know, you must know the guy who's the hang underwater bomb squat technician. Corley: Oh yeah, without a doubt. Chief Mike Lombardo: They do everything. Corley: Everything. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, you can't be good at all of it. You just can't. And somebody's got to be good at putting fires up. No, that's right. And I still go back. We talked about it last time about the EMS. I still go back A lot of people can do a lot of things at a lot of types of incidents, but really we're the only ones that go to fires. Speaker 2: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: So we do have to at least keep some. I mean, Keokook was that a little bit. This is not picking on them at all. They had a bad car accident right before the fire. So they had lost a couple guys on the ambulance going to, you know, but I see places all the time. They're small to begin with. They have like nine guys on duty, and there's Three ambulances out and six of them are at hospitals.

Corley: No, I was just in a yeah, no, no. And they're they're taking a transport. And I was I was teaching at a island. And they said, yeah, when we have an EMS call where it has to transport to the city across the bridge, he goes, if a fire drops, our second do is like 28 minutes or something, you know. Absolutely. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's And they're Yeah. It it's such a big deal. It's such a big deal And you know, one of the things that's happening is, you know, I remember as a kid, you know, 90% of all fire departments in the United States are volunteer. Well that has changed. That has changed. And a lot of places the volunteers are having a tough time. I know where I live some of the areas near me have a horrific time You know, they tone them out two and three times for something. And everyone know the answer immediately is, you know, we're gonna have to go to queer fight. And the problem I see with that is that they end up being those departments. They're an ambulance squad with a fire truck. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know what I mean? And the volunteers used to be troubled. They couldn't get guys, right? But this is you're got a career department. But they staff it with nobody. You know, they staff it with three guys and two go out on the ambulance. The guys there alone. You know, it's it I don't know what the answer is. I I have my suspicions, but who knows? But I don't know what the answer is. I really mean it. And I think it's a real big deal. You know, I look You know, you talk about being vigilant, right? Firehouse vigilance.

Corley: You talk about it. Always, yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: And it's a big deal, right? Being ready. And I always lived by focus was my word basically the same thing focus on the next run when i was a firefighter i focused on the next run i did that by when i came into the firehouse my Boots were at the rig where I was gonna sit, my coat was hanging, my there was no hood. My SCBA was I took it out of the compartment because we didn't have them in seats, but I bungee cord it to the engine compartment on the pump. so I could throw it on and be fast. Right, right. Corley: I mean today that'd be like, oh, but it's blowing mind. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. You know, the whole thing, and and it sounds simple and stupid, but my helmet and gloves were always in the exact same place. Like I didn't put it down there that night there that time right and i was just focused right and i you know i tell people even to this day i'd be driving down the street to work and i'd do Like when I became a lieutenant, size ups in my head. I'd look at it, okay, it's a three-story wood frame, multiple dwelling, fire on the second floor, heavy extending the third, going in with an inch and three-quarter, we got a hydro And I just practice, you know. And my way of focusing as a company officer. And it was a little different. I did those same things. My gear was all ready. But when I was a fireman, I wasn't that concerned with the Beyond me, because right? Yeah. As I became a company officer and I became a battalion chief, I made sure my guys that we went out training, like we were two days, two nights, and all four Every tour, I saw my companies. And I know battalion chiefs that don't see them for a week and a half, two weeks. I think that's terrible You know, I saw him every day. You know, how you doing guys? What's going on? Right? And and then even as the fire chief, like people go, well, you didn't go on the run You go, no, I didn't go on runs. I went to multiples, but that was it. But I did still have my focus was on the next run.

Chief Mike Lombardo: I keep doing this. I keep looking the run direction was the next run and i think that's important because that's how i did the budget Like I didn't buy a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer when we didn't have chainsaws on the ladder trucks. Right? Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right. No. No, I'm focused on the next one. I gotta prioritize. I'm in the second poorest city in America. I gotta make sure we have what we need to operate. We got every bit of, you know, beg barrel and steal money from any grant we can And you gotta go out there and look. It's amazing. It's easy to not easy, but it's you can do the AFG. We are computers on the rigs. I always wanted computers on the rigs to tell you where you're going. so on and so forth. And we got them from the New York State Archives and the New York State Archives. The New York State Archives chronicles the history of the state of New York and all the municipalities in it. And I was at a dinner in Albany and I talked to this woman and she goes, yeah, that's what we do to maintain the history of a place like Boston I go, well Buffalo Fire Department has a great history. She goes, oh I bet it does. I go and the best way for us to do that would be to start out now. She goes, yeah, and I go, and you know what to help us do that is to capture what we do by having computers on the rigs. We ended up with getting a multi-million dollar grant from them and putting every rig. You're going on a response, you have the address. But like even that I have I've seen other places print out whether on the rig to screen or in the firehouse the tear sheet. Yeah the rib sheet. Right And I remember this one place I'm shown, the address was 14 lines down. It was on this computer mumbo jumbo. And I'm like, that's not making it work for you. You gotta be on the committee to design that because it's gotta be in your firetruck. So ours was like the letters for you know the street like 123 Rose Street was this big. Oh wow. The two cross streets and then the companies going with you and then the hydrant

Corley: But I just like the big I like the big letters just because of my eyesight as I get older. Chief Mike Lombardo: I'm going down the street on a fire truck at two o'clock in the morning. Right? If I tried to put glasses on, I'd poke an eyeball out. You know, but yeah, that stuff little shit matters. Little shit matters. Don't make it harder for me. We I go, what's this? They go, well, that's the computer code for the AVL that it came from I go does give me the address no it gives you a code I go then take that off there we don't need that the dispatcher does don't muddle the issue you know but I love that That's focusing on the next run and you gotta do that. You know what where do I need people? So I wasn't successful in everything. We pushed for a safety chief, safety slash special option. Chief, on every shift. One on every shift. And I'm very happy. I didn't make it. There were two guys after me that didn't get it, but we all tried. But the they started I think it was the first of October. Nice. Yeah, it's great. And will that stop everything? Of course not, but it's just one more set of trained eyes. You know, I work with a guy teaching Dave Franklin from San Francisco. You know he goes, no, when I'm calling into the building, I want to talk to a chief. I don't need to talk to him. You know, and there's something to be said for that, you know. He knows what I'm thinking, I know what he's thinking, so I'll call him

Corley: you know, or and it goes to that saying of sometimes you plant the tree even though you'll never sit under the shade of that tree. It's just the effort from the the multiple the multiple and finally paying bearing fruit. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yep. A long push over a long time. But finally they got it. So it's a good thing. Corley: All right. I'm fighting internet issues. Sam has told me that my internet is hiccuping. And so I am going to move us to wrapping up, not because I'm not enjoying the conversation, but I don't want it to crap out. And so I'm gonna race against my internet speed. So what I'm gonna do is ask you if there are book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. I love asking this question. I know I've asked you before, but I still want to hear what you think firefighters should read Chief Mike Lombardo: So, let me so I think I talked to you about Bill Clark and Emmanuel Freed last time. Those books, Bill Clark's was Firefighting Principles and Practices. The Blue Book. Yep. And Emmanuel Freed was a red book, and it was Fire Ground Tactics. Corley: Which I think that one's a little harder to get a hold of.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Yes, I think it is. And I'm going to do one more. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh, it's so it's one of my guys I put on the Mount Rushborn. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's James Braidwood. Braidwood. It's a little older. It was written in 1832 or 1836. And he was, he started out in God's honest truth, started out in Scotland, and he ended up as the chief of the London Fire Brigade. But he really to me is the father of the fire service. He talked about in the 1800s staying low, having certain people able to do certain jobs. And the book is like the design of apparatus, fire appliances and apparatus, and the training of firefighters in the case of fire. or something to that effect. And it's remarkable. It's remarkable. The stuff in there, there is nothing in it that wouldn't stand the test of time today. Other than that, need a horse to pull things. But remarkable. Corley: I think I've seen an excerpt that people put in there and it talks about basically close the window to keep the fire from getting bigger. You know what I'm saying? Or close the door to keep the fire from getting bigger and things like that from From the 1830s. just amazing that he was talking about flow path, you know, way before the studies were done.

Chief Mike Lombardo: When it was even thought of. Right. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Exactly. Corley: And I have to read this comment. This one comes from Sam. He said 1836, back when Chief was a rookie. I think he's I don't think That could be. Chief Mike Lombardo: That could be. Corley: All right. I love it. Chief, now I'm coming at you with you've done the five questions before, but this one is a little different because you were one of the first ones that did this iteration so you're actually getting them twice but it has changed since the last time you did it so are you ready for the five questions for firefighters version 3. 3 What is okay. What is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Chief Mike Lombardo: so as basic as I can get stay low. Corley: Stay low. Right back to Braidwood. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, partly, yeah. But you know, everyone does. If I could see my feet, I'm walking. Yeah, but you can't see the victim three feet away from you. They're not standing up. They're down. You're not going to see the bicycle that's protruding off the wall or the table that's protruding off the wall when you're standing. And it could be some surprise for you. But the biggest thing is for the search. And that doesn't necessarily mean on your hands and knees, but it does mean as low as you can go. And then the other thing is conversely, when it is shitty, right? When it's hot and smoky, low really means low. But that's another thing I see is people like they're maybe down to their knee and they have good or shitty posture, it doesn't matter, but their head is still three and a half feet off the ground or the floor. And sometimes you gotta get your head on the floor. You know, one of the things that with us We when I started, you know, the SCBA wasn't the instantaneous thing. Somebody was getting it on, but the line was starting in. Well you were your nose was on the floor And it's remarkable how much you could sustain and survive that way. And I'm not saying do that now, but I'm saying that You will have if there's, you know, eight inches of visibility, you'll have it real low. You won't have it three feet up.

Corley: No, no, and it's so much you can see with from what the smoke is doing down there. You know, it's so much it can tell you. Chief Mike Lombardo: Rushing back at the fire. Corley: Going right to the fire. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, it'll lead you to it. Corley: Love it. Stay low. Hey, I've never heard that before, and that is phenomenal. The the the reason behind it. I absolutely love that. Max point, easy max points on number one. All right. This is the question you've never had before, so I'm excited. It's Jobtown It's time. You're in route and responding. You got to think of the scene from backdraft when McCaffrey's jumping on and the driver is slamming that cassette tape in that cassette deck. What song are you playing while you're in route to the job? We are the champions. Queen. I love it. Queen is one of my favorite bands of all time. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, we are the champions. Corley: And we have never had that before, so that'll be a fighting till the end. There you go. Yes. The goat in the goat in Buffalo. I see. Scott BFD 22 said he put up emojis and said the goat in and then he put up Buffalo.

Chief Mike Lombardo: He's a hell of a guy. That's Chief Scott Haywood, I betcha. Corley: Okay. Okay. He'll have to tell us if it is him. Chief Mike Lombardo: Great guy. Corley: It's hard to tell sometimes from the YouTube handles, but max points for Queen. That comes from Sam. You get max points for the Queen reference Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition? Chief Mike Lombardo: That's that is hard. Corley: Especially when you love the job. That's the hardest part. But go ahead. Chief Mike Lombardo: That is hard. You know, I think as simple as having meals together. Corley: Mm-hmm. That's hard to beat, man. Chief Mike Lombardo: I'm retired and it's taken me a lot of years to not cook for twelve people. My wife going honey I don't think we need all that. Corley: We don't need two gallons of pasta. Chief Mike Lombardo: No, exactly But I love and I cooked a lot. When I was a fireman, I cooked actually my whole career other than being a chief, I cooked. Awesome. I enjoyed it I really I love it, man. Corley: I love it. And and and that that is probably an easy max points for the kitchen table for the meals together for breaking bread. Yeah, it's amazing. I don't think there's another profession that has the firehouse kitchen table dynamic.

Chief Mike Lombardo: I know it's pretty wonderful for us. Corley: Yeah, absolutely. this one is on the clock. You got one minute. You've had it before, so I I'm always interested to see if it's the same or if you put new ones, but You get to put four people on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service. We know Braidwood's going to make it, but and go. Chief Mike Lombardo: So I will use Jack and Harvey Supple, who were my two mentors coming up way before I even got on the fire department. But I'm going to count them as one. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: Because guys don't know them outside of Buffalo, but the Supple Brothers is one. James Braidwood, who I just talked about pretty phenomenal guy that probably most people have never heard of. And then Bill Clark and Manny Free. Okay. Both fire service icons that people again don't know who they are. Corley: There's a little bit of that is sorry, anybody to walk on you. Chief Mike Lombardo: No, that's okay. Corley: Beautiful, beautiful. Clark Freed Braidwood and the Supple Brothers. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yes. Corley: Very nice, very nice. And here's the cool part because of people like you, because of like Kyle Romagus who loves to read and share stuff, a lot of the scrap listeners know Braidwood, Clark, and Freed, you know. And that is that's that's the good part about the scrappers, man. They are they are well informed because of people like you sharing those those those those Mount Rushmores Easy max points. And that puts us to number five. Heavy fire and searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES?

Chief Mike Lombardo: And a report of possibly somebody trapped? Corley: This is this is your answer. This this this is you get to make the story. Chief Mike Lombardo: So somebody's possibly kids trapped and I'm off duty, I'm in shorts and a flip flip-flops, and I sneak in the window and get them. Corley: I love it. Chief Mike Lombardo: Just to get everybody pissed off. Corley: And the best part is the people filming it outside so that they can say, see, they can this bystander does it. Chief Mike Lombardo: So Firefighter Rescue Survey. com. I use their thing all the time. 12% of 2,000 rescues. The person was is within six feet of the front door. Oh wow. And I and the reason I bring that up, I use it in my command class at FDTN, is So you're a battalion chief, right? And I don't mean you got there first on a run, Corley. I mean how many stations are in more? Corley: Five? Four. We have four. Chief Mike Lombardo: So you're at whatever station you're at and you're going to deliver the mail or talk to the guys at the fire station. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: You're sitting at the light in your chief's car and a run comes in and it's eight houses down the street you're sitting at So you pull up, ladies screaming, my kids are in there, my kids are in there. What do you do?

Corley: according to anybody who might be listening, I would absolutely follow all my SOPs and things like that. But no, I'm with you 100% Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, I know places where I've had guys say there's no way if I went in they'd crucify me. And I go, so you're not afraid of the fire. You're afraid of the fire department Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: We're fucked up. Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: I mean, we're fucked up. And the thing I always bring up is who will go in? Corley: I don't mean the bystander war, the pizza guy, the pizza guy, the federal guy, the mailman. Chief Mike Lombardo: If they cut Saturday delivery in the United States, a hundred more people will die in fires Corley: No, you're not wrong. And I'll be very clear. Chief Mike Lombardo: But I had a guy tell me in my command class, he goes, oh no, no, I would back the car up across the street and lock the doors. It's in the SOP. I go, yeah, lock the doors important. I go, because in Buffalo they'd turn the fucking car over. If you were sitting in it, sitting in it across the street from the place on fire And I said, I'm not asking you to go to the third floor of an apartment house. I'm asking you to pop the door and sweep your arm or leg in. That's all. But they may be 12% of the time, 240 cases, the one year they looked at it, 240 people were right there at the door We got we're the trained professionals. Everybody will go in. The cops will go in in force. There will be a hundred of them in the fucking place when you get there, right? But we don't go in Something's wrong. And I know it isn't everywhere, but it is someplace. I had a guy tell me he goes, I'd get suspended. I go, your chief should be spent

Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: If you get suspended. Corley: Yeah, absolutely. And neither one of us are saying be suicidal or anything like that. That's not the point. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right. No, I'm not I'm not asking you to do more than sweep that door away, but they might be right there, you know Corley: Absolutely. No, I love it, man. Easy. Easiest max points. Five for five. I don't I have to go back and look at the tapes to see how you did on episode 202, but I'm pretty sure it was max points on that one also Absolutely crushed it. And that officially brings 271 scraps, number 271 to a close. My brother, Mike Lombardo. Thank you for spending your evening with us. If someone wants to get a hold of you, get more info, how can they go about doing that? Chief Mike Lombardo: BFDboss at gmail. com Corley: There you go. BFDboss at gmail. com. Okay, housekeeping. If you want to be a vigilante, go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Join it. It's the cool kids. it's amazing. You get to come to the after party where we're getting ready to go talk to Chief Lombardo and it's not recorded, it's off the record, and you get the un unfiltered version, believe it or not. But he said He said he would be in there and we always promise we're gonna bust his chops. we're gonna bust the gif Bust the guest shops. We never do. We never do, but we always threaten to. So we'll see how it goes. Sam will be posting that link if you're not part of it. Another thing, Chief Lombardo wrote a unbelievably great article for the book of search and the book I gotta talk about the book of search just here right here at the at the end. it's it's coming out this month, provided there is no delays and no hiccups It should be available this month. So I'm super excited. there'll be a I'm gonna get everybody who wrote an article to share on social media the hype video that's and and and I'm excited. It's been an 18-month project and it's coming to a close and it's getting ready to be released to the fire service. 100% free to anybody who wants to download the electronic version. 100% free. The PDF, 330 pages articles from 43 different authors covering 46 different articles all on the subject of search.

Corley: And it's a it's a there's 22 drills, I believe, that we put in the back. So you can flip to the back, look at these drills and go perform them that day at your fire station. And then it's just amazing. It really is. And it's 100% free to the fire service in the PDF form. Now, if you want a beautiful, badass hardback version with Paul Combs' beautiful artwork and all that stuff. You can purchase that. It'll be on Amazon if everything works out right. And all the proceeds of that are going to go to Firefighter Rescue Survey. So I won't talk too much more about it. And I'm super excited because it's so freaking close. So all that being said, let's get to the after party. Enough jabbering for me. Chief Lombardo, absolutely amazing. Thank you for a beautiful scrap. Chief Mike Lombardo: Thanks for having me. Corley: Audience, you make the scrap magical. I thank you for tuning in each and every week and asking great questions. I appreciate you so much. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there.