Weekly Scrap #308 - Frank Ricci, command presence.

Corley: I get asked all the time, what is a vigilante? What does it mean to be a vigilante? And so to explain that, I'm just gonna kind of explain where the vigilantes came from. When I started the group, I honestly thought there was gonna be like 10 or 20 people who really liked the scrap. That would want to be a part of the behind the scenes, helping pick out the guests and make the questions and things. And I never dreamed that the vigilantes would grow into what it has grown into. Over 700 like-minded souls If you're a vigilante, you are never alone. We have members from across the country. We have members from across the globe. And it's just amazing what it's become. If you're in there, then you get to be in the Discord, and the Discord is where we do all of our dis Discussions and people go live and they talk and they ask questions and we have a channel for bitching and moaning for presenting classes. It's just it's amazing the fellowship that is involved in being a vigilante. And it's not just that, there's so many other benefits You get access to the Vigilante only swag shop. You get the 15% discount on all merch from Firehouse Vigilance. You get the after parties. You get the Vigilante get togethers when we're all at the same place and we get together And we raise a glass and do a toast and have the vigilante creed. You get the vigilante coin when you hit your one-year anniversary with your number. The fireaways the forums, the archives, all the courty projects that are coming that you get to be a part of and get to be behind the scenes on, it's grown into something bigger than I ever imagined And I want people to know about, I want people to be a part of. If you're not a vigilante, why not? I don't know. I don't know how how big it could be. I don't know. I mean the vigilante is are where the work is at. They're the ones who are getting stuff done and it's phenomenal to be a part of it. I wanted to get on here and explain where it started, how it how it came to be, and ask you, if you're not a vigilanty, why not It go to patreon.

Corley: com slash the vigilantes. That's where you sign up. It is $5 a month. I mean it's you can't even get a cup of coffee for that anymore. Five bucks a month, and you get to be a part of this unbelievable group. Go to patreon. com Sign up, become a vigilante, and I will see you on the Discord. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 308. My guest tonight is Frank Ricci. What can you say about him? He was the lead plaintiff in the landmark Supreme Court case, Ricci versus DiStefano. He is on the advisory board for FDIC and fire engineering. He's a retired retired battalion chief for the city of New Haven. He held so many titles there, it would take the whole show just to go through them all. He's the author of Command Presence, which is all about increasing your influence. and something we will talk about tonight a bunch. He is an expert on labor issues, an expert on hazmat issues. And when I say expert I mean like professional court that court cases he comes in and testifies. If he looks familiar to you, it's because he has been on every major news show worth talking about. He's testified before Congress. On the job, he has medals. I could list all the medals and then he would say, hey, be quiet. But he has the education, the paper. He is truly a renaissance man. He has made the fire service a better place. And I could go on and on Literally, it's hard to encapsulate it, but I will let Frank fill in the details as we go of anything I missed. Welcome, my brother, Frank, to episode number 308.

Frank Ricci: Coralie, it's an honor to be on your show. And the one thing that I haven't accomplished is I don't have a fire department named after me. So recall, I can't even compete with the host or the guy behind the scenes making this all happen tonight. So it's just an honor to be on your show and look forward to the scrap. Corley: Brother, I I thank you for coming on. And is there something I know there's a ton I missed, but is there anything you want to add to the bio? Frank Ricci: No, I mean people know who I am. I'm very approachable, you know. the only thing I would say is you put education. Education is something that I don't really have. So I'm one of those people who just just through pure grit got where I where I am. Corley: I'm I don't have a degree. Okay. No, no, not not at all. Not at all. And I would argue that it's worth, but yeah, we could talk about that all night long. But I love it. Audience, get your questions primed and ready for Frank and myself. One thing I didn't ask is I've always said Ricci. Am I saying it correctly? I know who I am.

Frank Ricci: It's Richie. Corley: It's the easier way. Frank Ricci: I wanted to do that before. It just time. Corley: I will get it right before the end of the show. 100%. I will get it right before the end of the show. Frank Richie. So and I'm sure you've put up with that your whole life. I love it. Audience, get your questions primed and ready for Frank, Richie, and myself. We're gonna have some fun. They're already logging in and stacking up on you, Frank. So I'm going to read a few comments. And it's like, good evening, everyone. It's up to here we go. Already broke it. Here we go Time to go. Yeah, people are fired up and ready. They're gonna get their questions in for you, Frank. So it's gonna be a good scrap. All right, give me back over there I'm gonna do the sponsors and then we'll get to scrapping and we'll get talking about command presence. So here we go. Affordable drill towers on a mission to bring you cost-effective and versatile training props like the affordable bailout prop. which allows you to practice window bailouts, ladder bailouts, and ladder high point rescues. They also make the affordable standpipe prop, which you can roll into the classroom for standpipe theory and then roll it into the parking lot and pump realistic flows and pressures. Of course their mainstay, the affordable drill tower. It comes in several configurations and standard with a standpipe system. You can choose from one or two sets of stairs and integrate it into your existing CONEX boxes for multi-story access. Or put it freestanding on a slab. All models are NFPA 1402 compliant and gain you ISO credit The only thing you can't do on an affordable drill tower is live fire training. Call Steve 844-55 Tower or drop an email to info at affordable drilltowers. com. When it comes to building your perfect attack package, you can't just slap any nozzle on any hose and hope for the best. That is a recipe for failure. At Snaptight Hose. They are not just trying to sell you hose. They are there to make sure you get the right hose paired with the right nozzle for your crew and conditions. Their team of experienced reps knows this stuff inside and out, and they're ready to help. No ego, no judgment, because knowledge is power and at SnapTight Hose, they bring both.

Corley: Visit SnapTightHose. com to connect with a rep and start building your ideal hose and nozzle package today. Firestationfurniture. com. They provide a complete line of quality furniture for your firehouse. Firefighter owned and operated. They understand the strain. Firefighters put on furniture and offer furniture that's built to last Visit FirestationFurniture. com for more information. And with that out of the way, bills are paid. We're ready to start talking about firefighter stuff. I don't even think I have my wallet anymore. Right on. That's how we keep it going. All right, let's talk about command presence, brother. This book is is amazing, first of all. I was I got to be, I don't want to say a part of it because that's not that's not the right way to say it. Frank Ricci: to the command chapter, which is one of the most important chapters in that book, but you also helped design the front cover and the back cover. So I really do appreciate all your effort. You I was just talking to my wife about that and she's like He's the one that did the cover. Corley: I'm like, yeah, he does a little bit of everything. No, I really enjoyed working with you on it. And you were you allowed me some artistic and and you gave me direction and stuff. I really liked the back that we came up with together even though it it didn't make the final cut. But I thought it was a I thought it was a really good I thought it was beautiful so we'll have to Print it out and put it in a frame someday. Maybe for the next one. In the first chapter of the book, you talk about your principle of leadership is doing the right thing when everybody is watching. And that's kind of a twist on that the the definition of integrity and it's and it's beautiful, but it shapes your approach to making tough decisions. And everybody wants advice on how do you make those tough decisions, especially around the firehouse. but especially when the decision is unpopular. Talk to me about unpopular decisions and and all of that. Well, you know

Frank Ricci: Making a decision when everybody's looking, that's where most of the damage is done. Or most of the your greatest accomplishments are going to be taking on an issue that may be unpopular at that kitchen table. I'll kind of put myself out here a little bit. I'm not a big one in servant leadership. Everybody says they want to be a servant leader. And I have chiefs calling me from around the country going, I'm a servant leader and I just got a no-confidence vote against me. I said, yeah, because you're trying to lead by consensus. If Henry Ford asked people what they wanted, they would have told them faster horses. When you're a leader, when you get to that position of authority, it's because you work so hard throughout your career. You have a responsibility to put forth, if you're not the fire champion. You got to put forth the fire chief's vision, but then you also got to put forth your vision as long as it doesn't contradict with the upper echelons. But you got to be afraid, you can't be afraid to make that tough decision. One of the biggest problems I see in the fire service is everybody thinks they're just the highest paid firefighter. If you get promoted, you have to not only be great on the fire ground, but you got to be great in the firehouse. And that means making the tough decisions in the firehouse. So I I could give you examples. I just don't want to kind of run away with this.

Corley: No, no, that the scrap is all about rabbit holes. So feel free to give examples because I have questions already. conservant leadership is a popular buzzword. It's everywhere. and and so I want to ask you, you know, is it do you think that people use the term servant leader as an abdication to make a decision? Like no, I think they I think the guys that say it and have it on their LinkedIn page, they're coming from the right place. Frank Ricci: And yeah, it's good to always take care of your people. So the theory is great. But in practice, what happens is they tend to abrocate some authority and they tend to just try to build consensus and they fall into some simple traps. Here, I'll give you the simplest example A dirty fire truck. You can either be a jerk and get on the PA and say everybody down here to wash the fire truck, right? Or you can do the servant leadership thing and just get up and start washing it And if the men and women that work for you respect you, guess what? They're going to immediately come and start washing the fire truck. So, okay, everything's going good. Here's the trap. Don't stay too long. You're a boss. You gotta wash it for a little while with them, talk to them, and then you gotta leave. You can't just become a firefighter You'll actually diminish your own command in the end. So you gotta separate it. You know, it's kind of like Carter carried his bags into the White House. You can talk to people who know nothing about politics and they'll say Reagan was a great leader because he was consistent and he wasn't afraid of the pomp and circumstance a little bit. Carter, most people know him as a peanut farmer when really he was in the submarine service. He never relied on any of his authority and he diminished his own command as president. as president. We see fire officers do that because they just want to be one of the guys, one of the girls on the team. You got to realize you're a boss. And that means sometimes you got to make the tough decisions. I'll give you another example. You know, you're friends with everybody on your shift, and somebody comes to you and says, Hey, badge is off.

Frank Ricci: I gotta tell you something. Well, guess what? You can't unring the bell, especially in our society today. There are things that if somebody tells you You have to report up the chain of command. If you don't ever want to be put in that uncomfortable position to make that tough call, then stay riding backwards. You're a boss. You have to be a boss. And there are times where things have to be brought up. I mentioned it in the book. I had a firefighter. The guy was so big he could fight Bigfoot and destroy him. Okay. Chris Sakowski, he's the training director of New Haven now. We were doing a training burn. He got a little burn on his foot. And he came to me as the boss and said, oh, I got a burn. And I'm like, all right, well, here, I'll do the paperwork. We'll send you a knock met. He's like, oh no, I don't want to do anything. So I failed as a boss. I didn't do anything. I said, this is the toughest guy I know. Meanwhile, I get a phone call on Saturday. They just rushed Chris to the hospital. He's got an infection, his burns infected, his foot. swelling. I failed as a boss. You know, so your personnel, you got to set that expectation early that if somebody brings something to you that you can't keep in confidence, Because of the organizational commitment that you have. Well, sometimes you got to take actions as a boss.

Corley: Right on, right on. No, no, and I'm starting to see the delineation that you're that you're articulating because it is Pop I don't say pop, I don't want to use the word popular, but it because it is popular. That is a good word for it, but it's more than that. The cup the popular the The current consensus is the whole servant leadership deal, the servant leadership. Always serve your people, put your people first. Well here's here's how it works with these chiefs that I'm talking to. Frank Ricci: They go into negotiations, union negotiations And they they put like the last best offer on the table to start off with, thinking they're doing the union a favor, trying to be on the union side saying, hey, this is the best I can get. And then all of a sudden the union goes back and says, does their job, okay, try to always get more. And then all of a sudden they say to Chief, no, we want more. And then the chief just gets pissed off because he's like, here I'm trying to work with them and they're, it's like, well, you didn't play the game the right way. I mean, this is about negotiations.

Corley: And that's a chapter in the book as well. Right on, right on. No, I think there'll be some questions coming. I'm looking here, seeing what the audience already has coming at you. Luke Stevenson coming at you from the down under Australia. He said should he's coming from the future, technically. He said, should we reframe the term servant leadership? as serving our shared goals purpose rather than the crew's wants. Is that a better way to describe a successful? Frank Ricci: Yes, just like I said, I think that he is right. What do you call it? You know Shared purpose is the key to the fire service in almost anything. We want that shared purpose, that shared vision. Just you can't diminish your own command as a boss in search of trying to make everybody happy. You need to be reasonable. You need to take care of your personnel. But you also, there's a reason you became a lieutenant or a captain or a battalion chief. And hopefully your vision aligns with your shift. But Sometimes you got to do your job. Sometimes you got to write somebody up if they're sucking as a firefighter. You know, I've seen so many good fire ground officers where they're political cowards, and if they have somebody that they can't train up. And they're having an issue with them. Mentoring's failed. They've gone through all the steps where they won't write the person up and they just let the pro they just let the problem fester. In the fire department. No, you're the boss. You got to take care of that problem. Now, if you write them up and the chief lets it go, well, that's their discretion. But at least your personnel know that, hey, if I do everything I can to bring you along. I'm going to write you up and I'm going to give you a copy of it before I give it to the chief. That way, you know, you don't ever hide. They're going to get a copy of it anyway. But when you're a boss, sometimes you got to, when in command, command. Sometimes you got to be a boss.

Corley: No, and you and you even talk about it a little bit in the book with one of the the stories where you were actually the union rep or might have been union president at the time and you had to defend a guy that you really didn't even like as a person. And I don't want to. Frank Ricci: Conservative. I wanted to see everybody hang, but I couldn't do that. That was I had a fiduciary duty to my membership and I used to. you know, slaughter management on a daily basis because I my job was to protect the process. Just like your job as a fire officer is to make sure your crew is ready to answer that next alarm. You're always marketing your service. you know, and you're ready to go. Corley: Train, train, train. Love it. I love it. All right. Great question, Luke. Thank you for kicking us off as always. Luke has the best question. I won't say the best question. I don't want to sell everybody else short, but he has great questions every week. Jeremy Humphreys coming at you. This is a very broad question. So you can go whatever direction you want. But I love these type of magic wand type questions. But he says, if you could impart one fundamental principle or value. To all attendees of the discussion this evening that you believe would catalyze meaningful change within the fire service, what would it be?

Frank Ricci: Don't ever lose your passion. Have kind of that shared purpose and realize that you're not going to win every battle. You don't have to change the world in the fire service, but you got to work for change. every day. And I think you gotta keep, you know, you choose how you respond to things You can't let somebody take away your love for the fire service. And we've seen so many great firefighters get ruined on this job because of some professional slight, they didn't get promoted, whatever it is, they didn't get that driving job. You know, don't let any book just because somebody rubs you the wrong way or you get a raw deal. Everybody gets a raw deal. It's about persistence. It's about pushing through. It's about that shared purpose. I remember I got a call when they wouldn't promote us because we happened to be white and Hispanic. And I got asked by the chief to go to the training academy and train the next class. And everybody was like, don't do anything for this fire department. And I'm like. The mayor's not gonna be going down a dark hall with us or cutting a fire under roof. Of course I'm gonna go to the training academy and train the next class. This is just stupid. You always gotta be looking at the long game. Don't get so into yourself that you kind of miss the forest from the trees.

Corley: Right on. Man, I love the love the love the stories, brother. Got it. thank you for the question, Jeremy, and the passion. Have you oh I mean you're a passionate guy. I think everybody can tell that, but have you has there ever been a point where you kind of dimmed and lost your passion and was there a secret to Keek? getting it back or have you always been full tilt? Frank Ricci: I mean I think everybody questions themselves and you know I mean we had a United States Supreme Court case where we lost every step And we not only had to deal with work issues, you know, I worked in the inner city where one of our members went to take a who was Hispanic, he went to take a piss in a bar, and next thing you know, he woke up unconscious. They just beat the living crap out of him So I had some tough times on the job where you're not only dealing with tough stuff at home, at work, but you're also dealing with tough stuff at home Trying to put forth this suit. So yeah, but I think it comes down to your family and your brother and sister firefighters that you just got to always pick each other up. You know, it's okay to have a bad day, but you can't have bad weeks

Corley: Right on. The let's talk about the landmark Supreme Court case. For those who aren't familiar with it, do you want to give, I don't know if there is a short version, but do you want to give the short version of that sequence of events and how that played out I'll give you a short version. Frank Ricci: You know, when it comes to promotion, it's about, you know, skills, knowledge, and abilities. We took a test. Wasn't just a written test. The test was based off, you know, fire engineering books, Vinnie Dunn's book, John Norman's book, all the legends that we look to in the fire service, the department's own rules and regulations. the standard operating procedures of the fire department of neven. So this is a test that was job related, okay They gave us a roadmap to study. They said, hey, here's the study material that you gotta buy. These are the chapters questions are going to come after. And then they had an oral exam as well. When the list came out, they reduced us down to our race. And they did this in a very pernicious way because they realized that if they only identified us by our race, Nobody would be crazy enough to sue to get somebody else promoted. So they were trying to just silence us. So we went to the lower court court when they wouldn't promote us because we were white and Hispanic. And we were telling them all along, well, wait a second, you're going to have qualified African Americans get promoted off this list as well, because the test lists for two years and they're going to be viewed as role role models. This test was job related, just certified a list. So they threw out the exams. They threw out a captain's test and a lieutenant's test. So 20 of us got together not knowing where we were on the list. And we put this fight and we lost at the district court. We went to New York City in the Court of Appeals and Sonia Sotomayor. throughout our case in a unpublished summary order that's reserved for cases that have no merit, like a prisoner complaining they don't have enough peas on their plate. And we were completely done. It was over. People were celebrating our loss. I mean, this is years in the making. And lo and behold.

Frank Ricci: One newspaper story, Corey, Corley. One newspaper story about our case being lost to the dustpin of lost causes. Jose Cabranes, who was Yale's first solicitor general, was on the Second Circuit Court in Manhattan. And when The court normally rules against the case because it sets a precedent for the circuit. It gets circulated around the court unless they do it in an unpublished summary order. So they threw out our case. He didn't see our case. He picked up the newspaper in New Haven and he said, wait a second, I didn't even see this case. This is a judge that happens to be Hispanic and was appointed by Bill Clinton. He was the one who actually asked for the embank hearing for the whole Second Circuit, who then again voted against us. But in his dissent, he asked the Supreme Court to take the case. So here you go. You can never put people in boxes. Don't ever, as a boss, put your detractors and make them the enemy because you never know. One day that enemy could be your friend. And here's a perfect example. Somebody you would have thought would be politically so aligned against us actually just followed the law and asked the Supreme Court to take the case. And then we prevailed at the United States Supreme Court, which ordered all of our promotions. So not only there was 20, New Haven 20, only 16 got promoted. And it took us over a year to find out where we were on the list. Wow.

Corley: So it wasn't even about your placement on the list. It was just the process. Frank Ricci: Well, I, you know, I went home and I was remember talking to my wife and she said, we're gonna put all this money up and you know What's gonna happen if you're not there? And I'm like, well, if I'm not there, I know that the test was fair. I want to be able to compete again in the future. If this, if we let this go now, We're this thing's gonna be, it's just gonna build and build and build and build and build. So we won. So thank God. Corley: No, it's a it's a great story. And and and there's a lot to be said because how many people would have actually had the stones to to stick their feet in the ground and say, no, we're gonna take it. We're gonna do this. No, we all did it and all 20 of us stood together. Frank Ricci: And I think that's a great American story because only 16 of the 20 got promoted. Wow. Corley: No, it's awesome. let me see what we got, what we got. I'm coming back to my notes for the show and we're gonna go to The giving and getting, getting and giving a cigar as a metaphor for recognition and camaraderie. Talk to me about that, that getting and giving a cigar.

Frank Ricci: All right, so in New Haven, I actually think it's a kind of cool thing that New Haven has. And this probably came about in the 30s or 40s. But when you get yelled at in New Haven on a critique or you do something wrong, instead of they say that you're doing something wrong, they say you got a cigar. So it's kind of a way to it's just like a buffer. I don't know why it works so well, but it just does. So It's not a big deal for the lieutenant to get off the piece and say, I just got a cigar for the battalion chief because we went the wrong way. You know, it's a way to just. I I I don't know why it works so well, but it's I used to call my office the humidor when I was in the training division at the end of my career. Okay, because I used to get a lot of cigars. So it's just a way to say, hey, I messed up. This is what I did. This is what we should do different. You know, we when you mess up, just own it. And just get it out of there. I mean, I wrote about it in the book, but my first fire as a lieutenant with a salty company, I missed the dog on a search. And I could have blamed the fire conditions. I could have did this. I could have did that. I didn't. I just walked out to the crew in the tailbore critique and said, hey, I own it. I missed the dog. The dog could have been a kid. We're gonna be do better. I wrote an article about it for fire engineering and published it. And I worked on one of the most salty ball busting crews that you can imagine. Out of 40 shifts in the city, I was also my cousin's boss, who's a clown. So I'm thinking to myself, I'm going back tonight. There's going to be a stuffed dog on the seat of the apparatus. There's going to be a stuffed dog on my bunk. I'm never going to hear the end of it. And I was surprised by just simply saying, hey, I messed this up. It could have been a kid. We're going to do it different next time. I actually earned their respect.

Frank Ricci: It worked. And I found that if you're a boss and you're going to do a critique, Always say what you would have done different in hindsight. We know you're making trying to make perfect decisions based off imperfect information. But if the in that critique, in that tailboard critique, if you start off by saying, Hey, in hindsight, I would have did this or this is what I messed up It allows the right it almost gives permission for the rest of the crew to actually open up and you could have an a critique where everybody's goal is to do a little bit better instead of everybody just going, oh yeah, that was good So I use that throughout my career as you know, captain, battalion chief, drill master in the thing. I always use that. If I did a critique, I'd always start off what I would have driven. And I found it to be a very Effective tool to just get a little bit better. Cause if you're not making mistakes on this job, then you simply haven't gone to enough jobs Corley: Love it. I love dude. There's so much there. So much there. Hey, leading by example. When you when you when you when you are in charge and you lead off the critique that way, you set the table for them because now you you made it okay to admit what you messed up so we can get better. Because that's the purpose. And I I love so much in that story right there, man. Absolutely. Hey, whatever the reason, it was a great story. No, but the great characters. but the I was I was had something I was gonna say about oh the the get giving it giving and getting a cigar I love the power of language just the just changing That instead of instead of saying it's not a rip, it's not a getting my ass eat, you know, or whatever, you know, or getting PP spanked, whatever word you want to use. But when you say it's a cigar, the power of language in that in that manner is I hate to say powerful. Really language controls thought. Yeah. No, that is that's the man, and that's a perfect example of it. The your book Island of Misfits. How can leaders learn from mistakes and failures? Yeah, that it almost ties right into what we're talking about, but the Island of Misfits

Frank Ricci: Yeah, that's the logo is the Charlie in the box for for Engine Company 10 and Truck 3 in New Haven. It's a Ecuadorian neighborhood socioeconomically deprived great people live in that neighborhood the crew was just crazy and you know here i'll give you something different than some of your guests probably say too So there's a theory out there when it comes to training of repetition, repetition, repetition. Okay. So I worked on the other side on the busiest truck in the city. So when I got promoted, I first stayed on my own shift, but eventually I went to the island of misfit toys So not only did I have my first cousin, I had the president of the Firebirds who publicly on national news called me the white devil. So he was my driver to start off with. So when I say that this is a tough shift, I had a really senior shift and I had some new firefighters, but that I trained the new firefighters in the training academy. So they heard, you know, all these rumors about how I love to train. So they thought it was going to be the reps, reps, reps type of thing. And they just wanted to eat me alive before I even got there. And I did something different. I had a captain over me there who had a totally different vision of the world than I had, who was a great firefighter. So I knew that the way for me to make an impact was to put my vision forward through training of what my expectations were. So instead of doing all those high reps that everybody keeps preaching, I knew these people knew their job. I said on my shift, I'm going to do a drill once a day. It's going to be an hour to two hours long. We're going to do one evolution. I'm going to participate in it as well. And then we're going to critique it and have an honest critique about it. And then the next day do the same thing. And I kind of started to win them over because they saw that they were quality drills. They weren't bullshit. You know And then one day I was vice president of the union at the time. I'm on the phone and I wasn't going to even take him out.

Frank Ricci: And a guy with 30 something years on the job comes into my office and goes, hey Lou, are we going to go out and do something? And I was like, what? So I was like, I made it. So sometimes you don't need to do kill them over and over again. But what I did was if somebody sat out of that one drill, because we only did you know, a writ evolution or we put up a 35-foot ladder and brought somebody down. I would make sure that they participated in the next one. And once people saw that the purpose of the drill was to make us all a little bit better a great firefighter company, engine and truck got even better. And all of a sudden other companies wanted to come train with us. And it really worked out well. It was kind of a legacy. I left and it's completely different than what a lot of people preach of you got to have them pull the line 15 times. Well Not all the time. I'm gonna, they're gonna go to a fire that day. I don't want them wiped out. I just, but I want to make sure that they're getting proficient because you need to train at 100%. When you train, because when things go bad, you're gonna be operating at about 65% No matter how good you are. So you want to make sure you're having that high-level quality training. You know, so if you're doing a search drill, make sure they're breathing air. You know, make sure it's a good drill. I'm not talking about some bullshit drill Each drill should be a good quality drill and then an honest critique. And that was successful for me. I'm not saying that's the only way, but it is a good way.

Corley: I love it. I love it. And let me I want to pose this question to you, but I don't want to make it an either or because you set the expectation, you know, and and and Every new officer, you know, usually comes in and says, this is the way it's going to be. You know, they have their this is the way I like things. This is the way. Frank Ricci: No, don't do that. Margaret Thatcher said that if you got to tell somebody you're a lady, you probably are. So what do you call, you know Set your expectations to be what that's a mistake new officers make all the time. Go to the shift, see how the shift happens for a little while, and then start volunteering to take over the training and then communicate your expectation. through the training and then before you know it you'll go don't ever be the person who sits at the table and says I'm new to this shift. I was I was at truck four I was the driver at the time and a new officer came in who made captain and so Said, nobody washes their car until 12 o'clock. By the, I don't know, it took like 20 minutes. Every single clock in the firehouse was broken and set at 12 o'clock.

Corley: Yeah. Okay. No, and I but I was gonna ask you about consistency being the key to to like Yeah, how how much that mattered because every firefighter sits back and says, okay, let's see how long this is this is how long is he gonna hold this? You know, we just gotta write him out. It'll be fine Frank Ricci: It'll be to leadership is projecting a consistent set of standards and values so people know where they stand with you. You can be really competent and people could still hate working for you. If you come into work on Monday and then you come into work on Tuesday and you're a different person. And we all all worked for people who take their at-home stuff and bring it to the job or they're just too emotional, you want to make sure that you're consistent, you're always projecting a consistent set of standards and values. Absolutely. That is the that is the one key to leadership. straight across the board. It doesn't matter if you're Martin Luther King, George Washington, Gandhi, or a battalion chief in Coralie, Oklahoma. People want to know where they stand with you. It's no different than your kids. And when, just like your kids, when you're not consistent. They'll take that inch and they become a ruler.

Corley: Oh yeah, without a doubt. I like this question coming at you because it's on the point of the story. He wants Gary Arb52001. He wants to know how did you develop your drills? Were they off the cuff or did you have a plan for the week, month, year, etc. ? How planned were you versus off the cuff? Frank Ricci: planning was one of my not great suits, but I would just plan it out for the week, but it could be, and I would plan it around the weather as well. Sometimes it was Going to look at a building and then putting a ladder up, sometimes stretching a line, asking the asking the business if you can stretch a line into the basement to two and a half. I mean, you can get pretty inventive, but basically I would use it as an opportunity to mentor some of my newer people as well. If they had an idea, hey guys, what do you want to do tomorrow? What do you want to do the next day picking an article out of fire engineering, using that trail, seeing something, you know, online was just coming about, seeing something online. So You know, it wasn't always just plan, but it was also, hey, what's going on in the city? Did this company mess this up? Let's not be like that.

Corley: Let's fix this problem. Yeah. No, keeping it relevant to stuff going on also. Does that raise the buy-in? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Frank Ricci: I mean, that's that's the key. And and I I think you have to be willing to participate. You got to be willing to do it with your crew. That's how you create the buy-in. If you think, oh, I'm the boss now, so now I'm going to stand back and just tell these people to do this. And here's the thing, when you get to the like the battalion chiefs level, if you're working with your hands, you're not working with your mind. So your time to work with your hands to buy that, to build that buy-in is to participate in a drill in a position that you normally might not do as that battalion chief. Just don't do it for too long. Don't diminish your own command. Always realize that you're the boss. And as each rank you go, that's one more step away from the rumor mill you get. You know, you you're not, that's the thing that sucks about being promoted. You're not part of that rumor mill anymore. You got to realize that you you got to view yourself as a fire ground officer, an officer and a manager in the firehouse, and that you have some responsibilities and you got to be able to justify your actions. In a court because guess what? Let's just take your fire chiefs out there, paid or volunteer. If you haven't been sued, you just haven't been doing the job long enough. It's going to happen.

Corley: And you got to be able to justify your actions No, and and that like you said, that disconnection from the rumor mill, the disconnection from the floor. I would have before before you promote, you're like, no, that won't happen to me. I'm gonna stay plugged in. I'm gonna stay plugged in. But the distance comes, the distance comes. And it's not malicious it's just it's just the way it is. You don't you're not as plugged in. Frank Ricci: Correct I had an instance where I relied a lot on my senior personnel. I said, you know, the shift you if it's in the firehouse you go through your senior personnel. If it's gonna affect the reputation of the fire department, firefighter safety, beyond their level, and civilian safety, I want to know about it. Besides that, my senior personnel can handle it. And we had that discussion about rumor mill. And if I could be a little crass. I'm sitting in my office and I'm here on one of the senior guys, Lamb Base, the junior firefighter, for talking about another firefighter sleeping with another firefighter. And it was like one of my proudest moments. Like I'm hearing this from the other room and I'm like, this guy is just shutting him down. And then he ended the conversation with, unless you're the one sleeping with her, then I want to hear all about it. So I was like, well, you can't win them all. You can't win them all. We were getting there. So yeah, you gotta be responsible. You got to realize we we want to have fun in the firehouse, but can't be harmful and it can negatively impact the reputation of the fire department because it is a workplace, even if you're a volunteer, it's still a workplace.

Corley: Switching back to command presence, Luke Stevenson again coming at you from Australia. He says, any advice on how to create that command presence in the absence of high operational demands. We have been slow since the 2019-2020 fires and have a lot of new leaders with limited experience Frank Ricci: Okay, so training, knowledge, and experience is kind of the triangle, and you kind of always want to try to keep them in balance Something that I didn't do, but after I left, Justin McCarthy did, who a lot of your fire engineering listeners may know in the city, which I thought was great, is He left and he became assistant chief of Greenwich, Connecticut, which is kind of like the Republican ghetto. It's like one of the richest towns in the country. And here he was from New Haven. So what he did was he built a mentorship program between New Haven and Greenwich. And our officers were getting management skills and process and paperwork skills from the rich town and the rich town, we're going to calls with our battalion chiefs, captains, and lieutenants to go to fires. I thought it was, I thought it was brilliant. I was like an exchange program in the state with Two different departments where both departments bring value to a different area. So, but you know, you got to do it with your training. You want to try to keep that in balance. You can't always do that, but you don't have to go to a hundred fires to be a great lieutenant or a great battalion chief I live in a small town, Wallingford, Connecticut. There's probably 40,000 people in this town. My best friend's a battalion chief here, Chris Sunwall. They get maybe six fires a year. I'd put them up against any lieutenant in the city. So The thing is, try to learn from every fire that you go to. Another program that I did when I lived in a firehouse in Montgomery County, Maryland, when I was going, when I I was pretending to go to college. John Kay, who's a Detroit firefighter now, after we would have a fire, he would say, hey, Frank, come here. And he would walk me and everybody else, like any of the new livins, through the fire before the lines were pulled out. He would say, okay, and he would kind of explain everything and then he would even take us up on the roof.

Frank Ricci: So then that's something that I took as soon as I got to a certain level where I'd always make sure. So I think that even if you get one job a year, Make the most of that one job. Make sure your officers or your senior firefighter or competent firefighter takes the new people through and sees all the different operations. Because believe it or not, we We do it for so long you almost kind of forget that there was a point in time where you're like, okay, where did this line go? Where how did this whole thing come together But by doing that on every alarm and actually taking the person through, you'll catch things. It's actually going to make you better as well. But that's another way to make the best of that one fire you're getting Corley: Nice, nice. And and just that bit on the exchange program with like Greenwich, like that's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. I hope people start implementing that across the country. Oh, I don't get some. I like this one. This is coming at you from Rob Eff and Fisher. Rob Fisher chiming in and said, Chief, given the challenges we're having in the American Fire Service with senior leadership. How do we get some of our best leaders at lower ranks like BC to consider promoting up into those admin positions?

Frank Ricci: Well, you got to push for change every year. you know, I'm I'm really against DEI, as everybody knows. But I pushed with our chief, John Austin, who teaches at FDIC. And one of the things that we did was, for example, we worked together to say, why are we changing the books? For every test. Shouldn't we want everybody to know the answers? We want them to be good firefighters. So we put together a program where when you come into New Haven now, you know what the books are for lieutenant, captain, battalion chief, deputy, and chief of ops. And if the book edition changes six months before the test, you use the new edition. If it changes five months and 10 days, you use the older edition. So and then the union and management got to get together to agree to change the book. So you got to just work. Sometimes you can only change yourself and that's enough. Sometimes you could change the crew Some volunteer for assignments. I mean, there's so much stuff that you can do to build your department. Just don't take no for an answer. It's adversity that's going to define you as a leader and as a firefighter. If you don't make ranks, some of the most influential people on my career never made lieutenant. You know You gotta find the situation, find where you can make value out of it, and try to just kind of put that passion forward. Some people don't make good deputies, but make great battalion chiefs. So you don't want to push somebody past where they're great. but you got to just try to move your fire department in the right direction.

Corley: No, I love it. Great. Great question. Frank Ricci: You know, if you got a union or your volunteer department, every place has a volunteer committee for this or your health and safety committee for your union. You know, participate. Don't just complain. Don't just complain and not have a solution. Try to participate and try to move things together. You'd be surprised what a volunteer, you're in a volunteer department and there's an apparatus committee where you can move things along or you're In a paid department, getting on that safety committee. And if you're not on the safety committee, giving them resources where you can help move things along, you're not always going to get your way. That's okay. Coralie and I had the back cover for our book that we thought was great. We got shot down. Did it suck? Yes. But you just got to keep pushing through. Corley: No, absolutely no. And to be clear, the book cover didn't suck. Getting shot down is the part that sucked. The book cover was awesome. again is coming at you and I can understand this question, but he was talking about earlier when you were talking about consistency. He says, when you are having a bad day at home and it carries over to work, is it okay to tell the crew? And how do you go about doing that?

Frank Ricci: I say no. I mean it depends on your crew. What do you call it? You're supposed to be Superman or Superwoman at that point in time. You know, you got to find another, another outlet. You got to find another officer that you can talk to. You shouldn't be giving your problems to your crew. I just, I think it just diminishes your own command. And I hate to say it, you know, we say the brotherhood and sisterhood, somebody will take your vulnerability and use it to their advantage some other time, especially if it's at home and has nothing to do with the department. You know, an officer on another shift. But I, you know, you'll you'll have the mental health people say Oh, bring everybody around and give them a hug. Okay. I'm not going to say that's wrong, but that's just not my way. I think you you gotta there's gotta be a little separation. I'll give you a piece of advice my father gave me. Okay He said, if you're invited to something as a lieutenant, captain, anything, you're invited to something, that means the person that invites you Finds value in you. You know, they care about you in some capacity. They're inviting you to their house or some retirement party or function. He said, if you're the boss, You have to go to show that person that you value them, but you have to leave early enough so they can talk about you behind your back. That's being a boss. You can't go to the party and just stay the whole thing and make an ass out of yourself You have to be the responsible one.

Corley: I like it. I'm not, yeah, that because part of it is I I I'm an eternal optimist. And so I think everybody's the greatest person on earth. And so this is a little more cynical in its approach to to not you know to keeping your skeletons hidden. I'm not sure how I feel about it completely with that. So but there's no right or wrong answer. Just I'm talking about building your command presence. No, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm tracking and I'm enjoying the conversation. Please don't take it the wrong way. but no, there's your answer McGinn I'm coming back to the book, heading back to the book. I'm trying to think. Again, you cover so much. And one thing I love is your love of history. Like you have a deep love of history. And it shows when you make a lot of the stories and analogies that you make, you talk about your book concludes the importance of truth and principal leadership when you talk about like John Adams the founding fathers, their principles, and things like that. How can modern leaders cultivate a commitment to truth in their decision making? Frank Ricci: I think you gotta be true to yourself. You just gotta be brutally honest. And now that's you know, you know, some people say that I don't have a lot of tact because I'll tell you exactly how it is. you gotta be brutally honest and you gotta realize that. One of the things I learned from Washington in the book was that you don't have to win every argument. You you gotta evaluate I had this two members who you would call and just complain for hours and hours and hours. Okay. They were this is a union issue, but it could be the same thing for company officer. And no matter what I did, I couldn't make any headway. I was never gonna win the argument. And then I was reading the history book about Washington, and it said that George Washington If the issue didn't rise to the level that his speech or his debate could actually change the outcome, he would just listen. And asked some questions. So I said, there's no way that this could work. So the next time the person called, I just listened to him. And then I asked a couple questions. I didn't take any position to the positive or the contrary.

Frank Ricci: I didn't portray any of my principles. I got off the phone in a half hour instead of an hour or an hour and a half. And the person ended up becoming one of my biggest supporters. Later on. And I'm like, wow, I don't need to argue every point. You know, is it gonna matter what I say? Sometimes just listening and asking a question makes all the difference in the world. I'll give you an example. If you're on scene and somebody's screaming at you, you know, they're losing their mind about their kid, put your hand on their shoulder, like out of fire. Ask them a question. Where is your kid? When you ask somebody a question, it will then usually break that cycle of panic. But it also goes for de-escalating situations. You have somebody come to the firehouse and say, oh, your driver just gave me the finger when I when I cut him off Don't ever interrupt somebody when they're yelling. Just let them yell. If you got to step back to gain distance, that's okay. Just let them finish. People want to finish. They want to be heard. Just let them finish. And then as soon as they're finished. Ask them a question. By you not responding and you asking them a question, it usually puts them back on their back foot. It they have to start thinking, which then calms them down. A little bit more. If you're in a debate with somebody at the firehouse kitchen table or a council person or the mayor, and they make a statement, again, asking that simple question. puts them on the back foot, usually will narrow the issue, may expose weakness that you can manipulate to your advantage. So it's not only works well on a fire ground. in calming situations down, but also when you're debating somebody, asking that question before making a statement will put you in a much stronger Position. It also, if your mind, if you train your mind that when somebody says something, you're gonna ask them a question, you will then It calms you down as well. Perfect example, you're a deputy chief or a battalion chief. You get invited to have dinner with another crew Okay, one of the biggest mistakes you can do to diminish your own command is to give answers to questions and then go to another firehouse and then give a different answer.

Frank Ricci: And now you created rumor mill. or get yourself in trouble talking about a policy that you really had no business talking about. You don't have to answer everybody's question. You just have to be engaging. Just ask them questions. Just listen. It's not your role to answer all their questions. You just have a an honest conversation, but you kind of see where you're at. Corley: No, that's hey the art of debate, man. that's that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And the other thing it does is while you're listening and you're thinking about the question, you're framing the question, you're actually paying more attention to what they're saying I mean, it's just there's so many benefits to what you're saying. I love Rob Fisher's comment. He said, boom, young leaders take note of what Chief Richie is saying here. I made this mistake too many times. If I could go back, I'd listen more and argue less And I'm I'm in the same boat. I wish I would have known it younger. You know, it's one of those things that that yes, so absolutely file this away. Rob also said, Frank, you need to write a book on the art of debate.

Frank Ricci: Well, you could start off by getting command presence. And there is a chapter of negotiations getting what you want, which has a lot to do with debate. And one of the One of the highlights of writing this book of having somebody come up to me. So they're from Canada. I'm at a fire engineering event at FDIC. And the guy comes up to me and goes, your book was a little bit too American for me. And I'm like, okay. He goes, however, I wish I read it, because if I did, I wouldn't have lost my house in the divorce Because he was referring to the negotiating chapter because he goes, every trick in that book, the attorney on the other side for my wife used against me and I fell for every one. Corley: So I was like, well, there you have it. There's the value right there. Chapter nine, right? Is the negotiating tactics, I believe. Yeah. No, absolutely. It's not just for a union president No, I love it. Applicable to life on the fire ground and at home and in divorce court, apparently. No, that's that's amazing. I'm trying to think here. Going back to audience questions, making sure. I like this one from Kyle Piverell. He wants to know, Chief, what would you say about leadership that lacks fire ground presence? but is, and he puts it in quotation marks, great around the firehouse.

Frank Ricci: Sometimes if you're that senior firefighter, build that person up. We had a new lieutenant come to my shift when I was on truck four and engine six. And the individual came from an emergency unit. So they got promoted. They were competent in the book, but had no fire experience. And yeah, we could have ostracized them. We could have set out to make them look bad. Instead, Tommy King, the senior firefighter, myself, and Brian Bonipace. We just said we're gonna he's our lieutenant now and we're gonna make him look as great as possible. And if that means when you're going in and you got the pipe and you got your hand on his thing and you're kind of dragging them in with you, giving them that confidence, or you know, whispering. You know, I always when I was in the train division, I could go up to a battalion chief that was losing at a fire and just kind of talk the fire out. You don't need to embarrass somebody on the radio. Just go up to him and say, hey What about the exposure? You know, so but you can quietly build somebody up to get them if they have that core competence. You can build them up to get to the point where they feel comfortable if they know that their crew is willing to help them out. And we all know, you know, here. I look at the American Fire Service like this. If you have senior officers and junior firefighters, That's safe. If you have senior firefighters and junior officers, that's safe too. Wait, I might have done that wrong. So junior officers And senior firefighters safe. Senior officers and low people with not a lot of time on the job safe. What we're seeing in America now is we have a lot of junior officers and junior firefighters. And that's, you know, New Haven had a line of duty death. I didn't need a NIASH report to say. It was lack of experience that killed the port firefighter. You had an officer with less than I think he had five years on the job and you had an a firefighter with two years on the job. It's just a a bad bad thing, but we need to count on the entire crew. You're only as good as your crew, and you can build anybody up if you're good

Corley: Hmm, great, great answer to that question. And I love that building up thing. do you I'm looking at Luke's question. Do you drive investment in ownership? drills. Oh, he says, do you drive investment and ownership in drills by having your crew lead sessions? Do you ever empower them to lead training? Oh absolutely. Frank Ricci: Anytime you can get an individual on your crew to cover your blind spot That is the time to take your star individual and let them shine. But what we see the trap is, here's the trap in the in the This situation is officers tend to do that a little bit too much. They're always trying to mentor the star on their shift, the one that's the go-getter, the hard charger, the one that can bring a lot to the ship. Well, guess what? That's not your job. You want to take care of that person. You want to help them grow a little, but they don't need as much as your attention. If you're a boss, Your job is to mentor the person in the margins, to get the person that sucks to be a little bit better and give them some attention. Don't just ask the people that do the job great to do more. Sometimes look at the people that suck and try to get them to be a little bit better. That's your job as a lieutenant or a captain on your shift. You're judged by your entire shift. Not just the two or three superstars that you're trying to make look good that are making you look good. Invest sometimes in somebody who's in the margins. You'd be surprised that you can some people are beyond help. Maybe a bullet could But some people, if you invest some time in them, you'd be surprised what you can get out of them. And too many fire officers and training officers give up on the people in the margin

Corley: And that's a m metaphorical bullet. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. I appreciate it. you had me and Sam both cracking out. but no, absolutely great answer. Great answer, especially when you say you are represented by your entire crew, not your rock stars. And your rock stars may make you look good. They may save your bacon, but you are represented by your entire crew. And that is a beautiful, beautiful answer. Brother, we got so much that we've talked about. I'm gonna move on to book or books. This is one of my favorite questions. Book or books. And it doesn't have to be firefighting related, but book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. Obviously, command present If you want to increase your influence, command presence. Frank Ricci: Obviously, command presence. I have another book coming out with Dave McGlynn and Dave Polikoff called Setting the Standard Which is coming out from fire engineering, but a non-fire department book. There's two books I'll recommend. one I'll get the author's name wrong. One, a lot of you you probably read it and probably know it. It's your ship, I think, is a great book. I think that that helped build me as a firefighter of the kind of officer that I wanted to be. I think that that's a brilliant book. And that's by, I'm going to slaughter his name. It's I think it's like Michael Aberhoff. Aberhoff. Robershoff. So it's a book about a destroyer and about leaving his destroyer, the best damn ship in the Navy, maybe. So I think that's good. The other book that I like. Is a book that if you have a daughter, you should make her read it, or a wife. It's called The Gift of Fear. And it's written by an Israeli. And his first name or last name is like Gavin something And the book basically talks about was oh, say that again. Gavin de Becker. He does security around the world. He was doing security for RFK Jr. around before he joined the Trump administration. And when I had RFK Jr. on my podcast, one of the stories he told was about one of Gavin DeBecker's agents and he saw they led a US Marshal through the line and one of the agents from that guy's company looked and said Wait a second, that badge is too shiny. Stop him.

Frank Ricci: And they stopped him and the guy had weapons on him. So the whole book has nothing to do with the fire service. It has to do with security and it has to do with just being an individual and listening to your intuition. Great book. Corley: The Gift of Fear. Gift of Fear. Gift of Fear. Excellent. Excellent. No, I love it. I love two. Obviously, It's Your Ship's one of my favorite favorite books. Huge influence on me. So I love that one. The gift of fear. I don't think it's been suggested before. So I'll have to get it ordered off Amazon. So beautiful. All right. We have a thing we do on the weekly scrap. It's called the five questions for firefighters it's been around for 300 episodes or so and it's changed a few times you are currently on on version 4. 0 So the points are arbitrary. They're assigned by me with the help of the audience. And there are no right or wrong answers. So Frank Ritchie, Frank Richie, are you ready for five questions for firefighters? Here we go. Scrolling. Number one, you are the Proby once more. And you have to cook the meal at the firehouse. What is your go-to meal?

Frank Ricci: I can't cook worth of shit, so I'm not cooking anything. But as a proby, if you want to be the lieutenant or the chief that never has to wash your dish, Be the proby that never lets an officer wash their dish. And that's what I was. I lived in a firehouse. I learned from so many other people's mistakes. When, you know, just do an extra Just do an extra five to 15 minutes of housework a day and you'll make a great reputation for yourself. You know, be the one that works. Have the cleanest toilet in the firehouse, whatever it is, just always do a little bit of extra. So I'm not one that's gonna cook, but I'll clean Corley: And that's some solid, solid advice to set you up for success. Man, elbows, elbows, assholes and elbows, and be working. Be working. Number two, it's job town. It's time. You're in route and responding. You got to think of the scene from backdraft where he slaps that cassette tape into that tape deck. What song are you playing while you're in route to the job? Frank Ricci: I'm not playing any song. This is time to shut the fuck up. What do you call it? Too many new firefighters. The radio starts going off and they start talking. Shut up. I want to listen to the radio. I want to be able to look at the computer. Stop talking. It's not about the music. Just stop.

Corley: It's time for the quiet game, according to Frank Richie. Yes? Yes. There you go. Number three. Whose boots? past, present, or future, would you like to spend 24 hours in? Frank Ricci: I like to just stay in my own boots. I would like to have dinner with Jefferson, Martin Luther King, and Donald J. Trump. Corley: MLK, DTJ, and TJ. There you go. I get all to all of them, all of them written down? Think so. Crushing, you are okay, number four, you are retired once more. You're sitting on the beach, enjoying my ties. What do you want to hear through the grapevine? That the people you used to work for, how do you want to hear that they describe you to the new hires? Frank Ricci: I think I crossed this bridge successfully. I want to hear that the people that hated me wish I was back. Oh, I like that. I like that. Oh, there you go. That's how you know you made it when your detractors say, you know what? I wish they were back. I wish he was back here. Corley: I didn't realize how good we had it, that kind of thing. So that's work. I can max that out. There you go. And finally, this is the question that's been around since the beginning. Heavy fire and searchable space. Would you rather be assigned To the nozzle or first in on VES?

Frank Ricci: I'm always a truck or a rescue guy. I was on the rescue, Bethesda's the Chevy Chase rescue squad in Maryland. I just I was part of the team that put forth the first heavy rescue in New Haven's history. We got a beautiful heavy rescue in New Haven. So it trained everybody up. So I'd go for the VES. Corley: Go for the VES. There you go. The five questions for firefighters according to Frank Ritchie. And that officially makes 308 scraps in the books. My brother. Frank Ricci: Thank you. But I want to make hey, if I if I can, a little bit of command presence here. If I could make everybody a little bit better at VES, because I bet you half of your listeners don't know this trick If you are BESing a corner bedroom anywhere in America, it could be the front corner or the back corner bedroom. If when you're going up the ladder, when you go in, of course we know we sweep, we don't sound, okay? When you go in, if you move away from the outside corner, the corner where the house ends Where the apartment ends and you move away from that corner, you'll get to the door 99. 9. I haven't even found the 000 where it doesn't work. You'll get to the door quicker to shut it Some apartments, it's three feet, some it's two feet, some it's six, nine feet. So any house, go look at a house in your In your house, whether you're on the side of the house, the back of the house, the front of the house, if it's a corner bedroom, if you go in the window, you look to your side, you want to be able to see the end of the house, the end of that corner, move away from it, you'll get to the door quicker.

Corley: I'm just looking around in my room here. I'm like, holy crap, he's right. I love it. there you go, making you better. And absolutely Hey, flex the command presence anytime, man. You make the show better. If you're making the fire service better, you can do it all night long. Thank you. now I'll get back to my spiel. Thank you, Frank Richie, for spending your evening with us if someone wants to get a hold of you or reach out to you for whatever reason what's the best way to do so it's real easy ever i'm on twitter all the time so it's frank ricci Frank Ricci: DC, you can DM me or call me. My phone number's on the LinkedIn. I'm very accessible, always willing to talk to a firefighter. And please check out the book, Command Presence. You won't learn anything, but I think it'll entertain you. Corley: You will learn a lot. Tonight has just been a small taste of all that's in it. And the test questions and the test answers, the the the the number of people you had contribute, to it, to add to it. It's a yeah, don't sell it short. I know you're downplaying yourself and it's it's partly for entertainment, but it's a great book

Frank Ricci: No, and I had we had some great, you know, we had you, we had Anthony Castros, Avillo, I mean, the the chief of Houston, Texas, Samuel Peña. I mean, we had some great Galeano, there's some great names in that in that book. It's the who's who of fire engineering, all the people that helped me all along the way. Corley: Right on, right on. okay, brand new thing we've been doing only in 2025 is I'd like to ask you to give a challenge to the people that are listening, to the people that will listen to the recorded podcast. Give them a challenge they can complete between now and next Tuesday and the next scrap. What kind of challenge would you like to throw out to them to try and complete before next Tuesday? Frank Ricci: Put together a drill for your company. Very easy challenge. Something you're passionate about, whether you're a firefighter or an officer. If you're a firefighter, just go up to the boss and say, hey, I'd like to put together a drill. And put together something that you're real passionate about and also think about writing an article because you can't do it in a week, but writing an article for fire engineering. You don't have to be from New York City or New Haven or Detroit It doesn't matter where you are. The likelihood is there's other firefighters that are in your same position. We want to hear from you. Write about what you know about, right about what you're you're passionate about and if you suck at writing, that's okay. I do too. You'll notice that when I write for fire engineering, I generally always write with somebody else It covers your blind spots. It makes it a little bit better. So if you're a little cautious about writing, find somebody else that's a good writer and get together with them and write an article. We're looking for great articles at fire engineering. And like I said, I write for, you know, I'm posting the Wall Street Journal. I write for the Daily Caller on a regular basis. And still when I write fire articles, I always look for somebody who hasn't written before to write something So find somebody and get get an article in for fire engineering.

Corley: Great challenges. Max points on challenges, 100%. Because A, make a drill. No matter what level you're at, make a drill. And B start thinking about an article because he's right, man. It's a it If you go through the process, it makes you better at what you're writing about. It will, it will increase your knowledge and you get to share it. beautiful. I love that. The next question I have is I'm trying to get better at this and we're working on a system to book better. But who do you think should be on the scrap? Now there's been over 300 episodes, so I don't expect you to know everybody that's been on here You may say somebody that's been on before, but who is somebody you think would make a great guest on the show? Frank Ricci: Anthony Avila, I think would make a great guest if he hasn't been on. And then I got to stick up for my two New Haven guys, Jason Rivera. courage and valor award winner teaches at fdyc and josh miller taught at fdyc two years ago they're both on the rescue in new haven nice Both would be great guests on the screen.

Corley: Okay, excellent, excellent. I love it. That's why I'm trying to do is build my network slowly but surely. So thank you for that. All right, housekeeping. Go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes The Discord is up and running and we discuss stuff in it every day. We were discussing Frank Ritchie today and trying to figure out how much, how many Frank Ritchie's are there because this man has done so much stuff. But it's all him. And so if you are looking for a place to connect with like-minded firefighters, go become a vigilante. one of the cool parts about being a vigilante is you get the invite to the after party. So Sam will be posting the link. We'll be going in there and we're going to roast Frank on his performance on the scrap. So get ready to get your chops busted. Spoiler alert, it's always the mildest roast ever. It's it fall anyway, you'll see. Vigilante meetup next week in Chicago. I don't know what time the I've gotten so many different conflicting things on when the bumper pool or the engine pool is. So I will we will figure it out and I will let you know when the vigilante meetup will be in in Aurora there at Firemanship. So I will let you know. So stay tuned for that as far as which night it actually is The scrap is on Tuesday, and I think the bumper pool is on Tuesday. So it'll probably be on Wednesday. Next week, it is my brother from South Carolina, Chris Tennyson, and I am looking forward to that one. Followed by the episode You Do Not Want to Miss, the one and only Chief Eddie Robinson, man. Two in a row just gonna be amazing. Three I the all 2025 has just been crushing it. we're at that we're past the halfway point and it's absolutely I'm I'm loving 2025. All right, enough jabbering from me. We'll get to the after party, we'll get to the roast Thank you once again, Frank Richie, for sharing your evening with us and being such a phenomenal guest. Audience, you make the scrap magical each and every week. You show up, you ask great questions. Thank you for tuning in live. The scrap would not exist without you. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning.

Corley: This job will never be safe. Speaker 4: So stay smart out there.