Weekly Scrap #307 - Josh Wheeler on Search, Ladders and the Basics

Corley: If you are not a vigilante, why not? We are The like-minded souls. We are never alone. Vigilanties is an amazing group of people. When I started it, I honestly thought it would be 10, 20 people that wanted to get together and talk about the scrap and and have access behind the scenes and have an impact on the scrap. What it's grown into is a community unlike anything I belong to. The Discord is unbelievable. You could Post anything in there and get feedback. It's just amazing. It's not just the fellowship and the relationships. There's all sorts of benefits to it. You get access to the Patreon, you get access to the vigilante. only swag shop you get fifteen percent off everything at firehouse vigilance merchandise the vigilante meetups when we get together the vigilante only coin the blackout coin after you hit your one year anniversary there there is so much to it of course the after parties if you enjoy the sw Scrap, there's the after parties where we roast the guest each and every week. We just finished a fireway that was phenomenal, all about building classes and presentations, and then we've got so much more planned, including scrap solos, the archives. Access to all the Corly projects that are coming. Like I said, if you're not one, why not? Go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a member, man. It's five bucks a month. 60 bucks, you can sign up for a year. It is absolutely the greatest collection of badass firefighters that I've ever been around. They are the people who like to do the work. They are the people that like to solve the problems. So if you want to be a part, go to patreon. com slash the vigilantes and be a part of the like-minded souls. Now Let's get to scrapping. Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 307. My guest tonight is Josh Wheeler. He is a first generation fireman and has been a student of the craft for the past 12 years. His journey began as a volunteer, and it didn't take long to realize he was in this for the career he was meant to pursue. He spent six years in Kentucky before moving to Rutherford County Fire Rescue in Tennessee, where he has been for the last three years. Currently, he is assigned to Station 60 Special Operations and contributes to both the Training Committee, Hiring Committee, and the Rutherford County Training Cadre.

Corley: Since 2022, he has been a part of the Citizens First Fire Training Cadre, where he specializes in ladders and search. Two areas Josh is incredibly passionate about. He has been with his amazing wife for 10 years and earlier this year became a dad. So congrats on that. And welcome to the Scrap Mall for episode number 307, Josh Wheeler. Josh Wheeler: Thank you so much. I'm beyond honored to be here. Corley: I'm excited for our discussion. Is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add? Josh Wheeler: Not a single thing. Can't think of anything. Just a fireman, bro. Corley: I love it. I absolutely love it. So we have a lot to discuss, a lot to talk about. There's a lot of people chiming in already. Jake Rush said sad that Josh's true passion is driving and pumping, although he'll never admit it. But we got a lot of people, big engineer guy, yeah, huge chauffeur guy I I think we have a I think we got a story to talk about there. But there's a ton of people on the front row. Dustin Sinclair said honest and blessed to work alongside this incredible dude. Send it, Wheeler. And then, man, there's a whole bunch of people saying, let's go, let's go, what's up? Yes. And so anyway, there's some hype for this episode. Let's get to those beautiful sponsors. I will get through that part I love them and they allow the scrap to keep going and then we can get to scrapping. When it comes to building, you're perfect. When it comes to building your perfect attack package, you can't just slap any nozzle on any hose and hope for the best. That's a recipe for failure. com And last but not least, my man, Andy Starnes, Insight Fire Training Thermography, certified fire service professional Insight Fire Training specializes in training individuals across the globe in the tactical use of thermal imaging cameras in emergency services Insight Fire Training developed the world's first thermography-based collegiate firefighter certification and trains firefighters, manufacturers, and industrial professionals across the globe. And there it is, four sponsors. Thank you so much. Check them out and now we get to Josh and the scrap. So my man.

Josh Wheeler: Let's do it. Corley: Chris Kessinger is one of my favorite people on the planet. Love the dude. I know you're involved in the show. Yeah, absolutely. But well, I always send the message out to the to the guests when they're coming on and say, what would you like to talk about? What's your passion? And one of the things that caught my eye in the notes you sent back was you said the value of outside training. and the powerful impact it's had on your growth as a fireman. So talk to me about that and let's have a discussion. Josh Wheeler: So Outside training has pretty much brought me to where I am at this point in the job. Starting off, I went through a volunteer fire academy. came out, got a few fires under my belt, and I really did believe that I had a good foundation of knowledge I ended up going to a it was an old truckie talk class with Arthur Ashley in Lexington, yeah. And that was my very first introduction to outside training. It was all the truckie talk cadre. We had a We had this massive dorm, just a couple of dorms at Brescia University in Lexington. And I learned quick that I did not know shit. Really quick. And it it was a punch in the face that you just don't know what you don't know. And ever since that point, I started pursuing because I just wanted to, I'm the type of person that I I'm all in on something. If I start something that I'm all in. And I I just wanted more knowledge and I found that through outside training and even fast forward into where I'm at today. the ability to go and be around like-minded guys is invaluable. I know that there's man, there's so many problems at everyone's department. I see it in the chat every single week that I watch the scrap. Being able to get around like-minded guys and share those stories and make connections, that's what really matters.

Corley: Oh yes, I love. And because it and don't get me wrong, the the value of the the training that you get is through the roof usually. And the value of the lectures and the speakers usually is is worth the price. But the the real hidden value of them is is connecting with people and finding out, holy smokes, you're just like me. And it's okay to be like me And your department is just like mine. And I'm not crazy. And that's it's it's a it's a really powerful thing. Josh Wheeler: And I wouldn't have access to Citizens First if it wasn't for outside training. The only reason why I'm part of a Citizens First cadre is I went to prioritize the search I'm not sure off the top of my head how many times before I was invited. to become an instructor through them. So that that that's just another connection and that kind of gave me a different alley to a passion that I really didn't know I had. I was really I was never an instructor beforehand. Right. So that aside from learning and aside from putting in the sets and reps, it also gave me the opportunity to spread what I love and teach it to others

Corley: No, that's powerful. And for those out there who who do have it are wondering, how do you become an instructor? How do you get involved in that What your wrote was not even on purpose. You just attended the class so many times they're like, hey, dude, you want to teach it? Yeah. Is that basically or not teach it, but do you want to be a part of this? Josh Wheeler: S yes, yes, to a certain extent. And then I started branching off. I found what was in my wheelhouse, which is Really searching ladders. now I can branch off into like forcible entry and stuff like that. I rode an engine for six years, so I have good experience doing that. But it came down to in today's fire service, being able to put those reps in and do them well isn't what you need to be an instructor in today's fire service because everyone is asking why. It also comes down to the methodology of being able to present the why on all these different things. Corley: Present the why. And when you say like because you say that it's not just enough to be able to put in the reps, which you have to you have to have the skills, obviously. Absolutely. It's not just enough. Because you have to be able to explain the why. So therefore, the how is easy. Relatively speaking, firefighters are generally good at the how. Oh, you do this and that and that. But why and when you would do it is the big part of that whole package, so to speak.

Josh Wheeler: So for the longest time people weren't asking why, and I think that's the reason why the fire service is progressing to a point that it is now we're really getting better in the things that matter. The right people are asking why. Well for the longest time, like whenever I got into the job, people really didn't ask why. And people really didn't necessarily present the why. It was just, this is the way we've always done it and it works. Corley: No, absolutely And and and honestly, yeah. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Josh Wheeler: No, no, no, no, you're fine. I was saying that they really didn't present the why very well. And with the new generation, like I hear it all the time of, you know, what are we gonna do with these kids that are asking why? It's like, well, maybe we can fucking tell them why. And they can appre and we they can appreciate it a lot more. Kids' brains are wired a little bit differently. And I think that's the reason why we're improving so much in the fire service right now. Corley: Oh it's definitely there there's I always say you know this the it's the best time I I'm sure they've said that forever, but but it's the best time to be in the fire service. The internet has shrunk the world. And one of my favorite quotes, I say it so often on the scrap, is Brian Brush when he says, once you get outside the walls of your firehouse. You realize that the fire service has been a lot of people. Doesn't have any walls. Yeah. And it's and it ties right back into your your first point of go to outside training. Go meet like-minded people and figure out the fire service has no walls. Man, very, very powerful stuff. So search and ladders. What led Lee Humphreys is actually asking a question? Lee is ahead of the game because we were planning, we were planning to discuss Your passion, you said it, search and ladders. What led to that? What led to that that being your focus?

Josh Wheeler: So starting out We had at my volunteer department where I started off at, we had the only truck company in the county. It that was it. We had the only ladder company. So I started looking at things on where I could fit in to make a difference, and I found truck work. And that's what led me to Arthur's class. But getting down to the methodology of search, it's so basic, but I think for the longest time we've really missed the mark. search. Now we've got actual statistics that back exactly what we do once again and be able to present the why on why we search so that's what really drew me in. It was Sean Duffy that was teaching and had prioritized the search the very first time and he explained search to me like I was five years old and it was like holy shit. I I never thought about The methodology of search this way, so that's what really drew me into that. As far as ladders go, it was because I was scared of them I was scared to death of ladders, dude. Corley: Intimidated like skill standpoint? Okay, okay. Yeah. Josh Wheeler: No, no, no, no, no.

Corley: Okay. Josh Wheeler: it it it was The skill standpoint of ladders always intimidated me, especially whenever like you go through the if to skills and it takes three people to throw a 24. Well now I'm getting shown that it only takes one person, it's 72 pounds. So being able to put in those sets and reps with those and really getting comfortable and learning what works for me. the very best way, now I can start presenting that to other people. That's what really drew me into the search ladder aspect of things. Corley: I love that. I love that answer. I'm picturing like 14 people trying to throw a 35 with a proper everybody on one row. seven percent. No, absolutely brother. So pull it up here. There's questions coming at you from the audience and Scott Kitchman. Scott Hitchman wants to know, is there any particular outside training you attended that impacted you more than others? One that holds a special spot still? Josh Wheeler: I mean you talked about author already, but that that one really because that's what drew my attention to it initially. Prioritize the search. I learned so much in that class. Lexington, Kentucky's Rick class is a fantastic. It's Kentucky State Fire School. And Lexington Rescue One puts on a Rick class and it is absolutely fabulous. there's guys that the last time I went There was guys from across the country that came just to take that class and the skills and the experience that you pick up from that class is invaluable.

Corley: Awesome. And that's put on by Lexington's crew, but at the state fire school? Josh Wheeler: So I think it's it it's technically put on by Kentucky State Fire Okay. Whatever. But it's done by rescue one guys. Corley: Okay, okay. Josh Wheeler: And their special operations, I think engine nine is part of their special operations too Corley: Kick ass. Kick ass. Okay, that's awesome. So I I want to know, as you've gotten into teaching search and ladders, what's what's some things that you keep seeing on repeat? Let's let's focus on ladders first, because I love I got some stuff I want to talk to you about search, but on ladder specifically, what's the things that you're seeing from new students coming in, the misconceptions that you're constantly correcting or constantly addressing? Josh Wheeler: really the exact same thing that I was facing whenever I came in. it's the exact same. I I think that the fire service, they teach the basics, they throw the basics at us real quick and then it's off to the next thing. before we really get groundwork on the basics. So people are intimidated by them. They're super intimidated by them. I would say for the vast majority, people are starting to learn that like 24 is a one-man throw.

Speaker 4: Right. Josh Wheeler: But something that I see time and time again are people trying to throw that ladder from the midpoint. They're not working their way past the midpoint to offset that base length. So work your yeah, working your way past that midpoint. And then people who are shorter, if you throw a halligan in the rung of that ladder, it makes a world of difference. So really just showing them tips and tricks to make that ladder work for them. I haven't seen anyone not be able. to proficiently throw a 24 after working technique. Corley: Gotcha. Gotcha. Just getting proper technique so that their body mass, height, whatever, is is not the the thing that's holding them back. Josh Wheeler: Absolutely. Corley: I love it. What is a Jake J wants to know what is a go-to ladder drill that you like to do with your new guys? Josh Wheeler: Really just taking them out and throwing them. Being proficient at estimating your throw. That's something that we see a lot and something that a lot of newer guys really haven't perfected yet. is just being able to throw to a window and actually make it a proficient throw instead of throwing super high, super low. Another thing is something we don't use very often, but alley raises. We just did a drill this last tour that we've got a wall in front of our station. And I just set up some wires and said, okay, well, you know, you had no access to the Charlie South alleyway, figure it out. And being able to work through some things that wasn't necessarily always used in our toolbox.

Corley: Some restrictive raises. Josh Wheeler: Absolutely. Absolutely. Just going in tips first. Send in somebody to recon that Charlie side before you commit a ladder to it. So if you have to go in tips first. you can do that. Going in tips first, the person who is at the tips sets stays stationary, and the person who is at the butt just slowly pushes that ladder onto them. Corley: Yep, and pushes it straight up. Okay. Josh Wheeler: Great way to throw under some lines. Corley: Nice. No, no, it's just stuff you don't think about because that's a that's a beautiful thing, and I've not heard the tip first plant and go. I love it. You talked about the halligan being a game or some someone said in there the halligan is a game changer. So talk to me about the halligan assist. I know that most people listen to this, but so you'll have to visually describe what you're talking about. But talk about the halligan assist. Josh Wheeler: so putting the pike or the pick or the spike, whatever you want to call it, into the rung of the top side of the beam and it creates a Words are hard. it creates a counterweight, really. So whenever you plant that ladder, it you don't get like the butt spur skippies. It makes it a little bit easier to create a fulcrum and get it up off your shoulder if you work your way past that midpoint. It's just something additional that helps out.

Corley: So it's just you're you're literally just changing the the midpoint or the the center of gravity, I but I think would be the okay, okay, okay Adam Melkeye says estimating the throw is that number of rungs you need to raise the ladder or distance to place the foot of the ladder from the building or both? Josh Wheeler: I would say I would say both. I would say both. where I throw my ladder, I don't like to do a lot of moving afterwards. And it is just estimating, so every single click that you hear is 14 inches. it it it's really just estimating and not overshooting your ladder throw, not undershooting it, just getting it to its target. Corley: Nice Nice, nice. And it's trying to get it to where it's subconscious and not conscious. Not the conscious competence Yeah. Pass past the incompetence, obviously, but to get into the subconscious competence. Josh Wheeler: And it's kind of tough because like when whenever you talk about like two-story houses, like two clicks, two clicks will reach a second story But we have a lot of stuff on like the Bravo and the Delta Sides that you're extending well past three, four clicks just to reach that. Like you're talking about like a slope. Ungrade, ungrade. so you really it it it doesn't become a guessing game anymore. You have to be really competent at judging your distances.

Corley: Nice what oh I like this one, so we'll see where you fly in. Jake Rush wants to know what's your thoughts on the tying off the halyard debate? Josh Wheeler: Tie your halyards. Corley: Tie your halyards. Josh Wheeler: Tie your halyards. If you're throwing above it, so we don't tie off halyards whenever you throw to a second story. Why? Because there's not enough halyer to tie, right? But if you're throwing above a second floor, especially if you're throwing to a victim, the very first thing that victim is going to do is want your fucking ladder. They want what you have because they're in yep the they're in little small brain mode. They're gonna try and grab that ladder. If they pull it to themselves, which is very possible to do Those dogs are not those dogs are not gonna fail. They're rated for a thousand pounds. Every component of a ladder is rated for a thousand pounds. They're not gonna fail But human error will. If they pull that ladder to them, that's going to unlock those dogs. Now you have to start from square one again. Corley: Nice. And it and be damned if you have anything bearing on it when those are pulled up if they manage that. Yeah, Jake Roosh was asking because of the recent incident. We all saw the, I think most people saw the video where the ladder gave out and came down on the toes, and everything that went down with that was tragic.

Josh Wheeler: L let me tell you right now, I've got a picture in my phone from last tour that our ladder I do not know exactly what happened. I want to preface that. I want to preface that I do not know exactly what happened, and that's none of my business to know. But I can make a very educated guess on what happened. And I've got a picture in my phone from last tour that our ladder did the exact same thing. If you extend the ladder past those like little flappers If you do not have your dogs lubed really good, New York, what's in New York? A whole lot of salt, right? I would say that they extended past those flabbers. It stuck on a rung and it gave the illusion, you hear the click, you hear everything, but it gave the illusion that those rungs were locked in. As soon as they put weight on it, it failed. now is that what happened for sure? I have no idea. I have no idea. But that's just my educated guess, and that could happen to anybody. Sure. That could happen to anybody. Corley: Adam Melkeye following up with have you used a New York hook on the top rung in the same method as the spike of the halligan in the rung hole?

Josh Wheeler: say that one more time. Corley: Have you used a new York hook in the same way to counterbalance or to change the point of the center of gravity? Josh Wheeler: Typically I don't. Typically I don't. I usually carry my New York hook. So I've kind of transitioned into from carrying a high shoulder. Now I kind of carry a low shoulder. I still will throw the spike and my halligan in there, but I usually carry my hook and it just frees up an additional hand to be able to carry whatever tools I need. Corley: Very, very good. All right, pulling back up our notes here. Keep the questions coming. The questions are awesome so far. Now you said that you you you had a quote on search. You said, and I like this quote, we really missed the mark on search. You were talking about the why, but I wanted you to elaborate a little more on that if you don't mind. Because I like Yeah, yeah, I'm very intrigued. Josh Wheeler: so I think for the longest time until these statistics have really started coming out like through the firefighter rescue survey and everything like that I think we really have missed the mark on search. I know personally, like there have been so many times that I've been bottlenecked up behind an engine company. waiting to start a search. And engines are not very good at searching, but they're really good at finding. So all those paths of egress, I want to try my very best to get around the engine. I love what search culture is doing right now saying like search from a windows. I absolutely love it. I want to completely take out. the opportunity to be bottlenecked up. that's what I mean whenever I say that I think the fire service is moving in the right direction now. for the longest time, like look at VES. having somebody isolated at a window. What's that doing? somebody at some point asked why why are we leaving somebody isolated at a window? You're not being able to see shit, you're not leading anyone to do anything. You're just being a useless set of hands. And then we started talking about extending the search. Why are we Why are we coming back out the window just to go down and move to a different window whenever we could just extend the search?

Josh Wheeler: Those tactics were preached and drilled in my head for the longest time, for the vast majority of my career. Somebody asked why, and now we're doing shit that actually makes sense. Corley: No, the needle is moving on it immensely. So and a big part of the reason for asking why, Justin McWilliams, I'll just say his name because I think he's one of the biggest drum beaters in the world. I'm not saying other people haven't, so I don't want to just say solo credit Josh Wheeler: But and that dude's got ammo. I love going on search culture and just looking at the comments and anything that anyone says is boom. He can actually present the why. He he's awesome at presenting the why. Corley: He's one of my favorite people to see speak in person, and he does a question and answer. And it's phenomenal. I love it, man. It's it it's but he's not he's not scared of controversy, but he's not a shock jock. He's not doing it for that reason, he's doing it to get better. And it's it's it's it's a powerful thing. So there you go, Justin. A little kudos. Justin. Man, he's moving the needle. Like single-handedly moving the needle. And when I say single-handedly, there's a whole lot of people behind it.

Josh Wheeler: Without a doubt. Corley: A lot of questions coming. Have you done much with non-traditional ladder exercises such as splicing? If so, can you talk about it at all? Josh Wheeler: I have. Now, I will not say that I'm an expert on splicing. I have done splicing. I have never taught splicing outside of my own department. We've done several drills at work where we've spliced a 24 and a 14. But I had never taught that outside. If you want that sort of information, I would say go to Magic City Truck Academy, Dark Side of Ladders. Those dudes are awesome at what they do. They can make ladders do some crazy shit. But as far as like outside the box stuff, I've done it myself. I've been taught it But I've never gotten on a on a massive platform to teach it if that makes sense. Corley: Right on. No, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Jake Roosh said best products to use for ladder maintenance and lubing your dogs. Josh Wheeler: Anything to just keep the grind out of your ladder. I I don't know of anything off the top of my head that is like best practice. I would say I I don't want to sound like a book, but go off of manufacturer recommendations on that. I've used WD40 before the lube. Just any any sort of lubricant. I would say go off your manufacturer recommendations. That would be in there.

Corley: Dude, I love it. Ladder splicing tips and tricks. He answered that one, but a great question, Cohen. Would you rather search your way in or would you rather follow the hose line and search from the fire room? And I think you've answered that. that but any any thoughts on the searching your way in or f fighting back or searching back from the fire? Josh Wheeler: What am I assigned to? Corley: You are assigned to search. Let's just go there. Josh Wheeler: Oh okay. So if I'm assigned to search, I don't have a hose line with me. Corley: Yeah, he said f he said he was saying follow the hose line. Josh Wheeler: Okay. I would much rather get out in front of that engine company. through a window, I would isolate myself. I would let that smoke lift from the room that I'm searching. make sure that room's clear. If there's water on the fire, and this is a this is a good topic that's not really talked about a lot. If I'm going to extend my search and there's water on the fire, then why am I closing the door? Corley: Right. Open it up. Josh Wheeler: Open it up. I want as much smoke out of that house as I possibly can. yep, but if a line is not in place, of course, isolate that room. The next room I go to, I'm going to do the exact same thing. I'm going to isolate myself into the room. I'm going to take a window. I'm going to let that smoke rise. I'm going to get a good search in. Come back out, isolated if there's not water on the fire. I think that for the vast majority, that's a much more proficient search system. getting out ahead of the hose line because everyone everyone has been in a situation where like think of stairs for example you try try and go to a second floor with an engine company on the stairs. It's not gonna happen, dude. Like the the guys that I work with are hitters. They're gonna throw me down the stairs if I tell them that I want to work my way past them to start a church. Yeah. Not gonna happen. so I think it's just a it's a quicker system And I think a search gets knocked out a lot more proficiently if you bypass that bottleneck and can start a search immediately.

Josh Wheeler: And not to mention, I can immediately start a search where we're finding the highest percentage of our victims. Which is in bedrooms, right? Corley: Right on. Right on. And that's data driven now, which we have, which we didn't have back. Exactly. It was all anecdotal. And now we're backing it up. And the science is absolutely backing up. the old heads and everything. I mean it's all full circle and cyclical and it's all amazing. thank you Jim for that. That was Jim Edmill's question, by the way. I don't know if I said it. Cameron Wallace How can being an aggressive mindset affect a backseat fireman on an engine compared to a rescue slash truck company? Josh Wheeler: Say that one more time. Corley: Yeah, I'm I'm reading it one more time, but how can being an aggressive mindset affect a backseat fireman on an engine compared to a rescue or truck company? I'm not sure I understand the question. Cameron, if you can rephrase it, I will ask it again. Josh Wheeler: He's a good one. Yeah, rephrase, rephrase the question just a little bit. Corley: what would be your biggest recommendation? I like this. We get a lot of questions like this on the scrap, so I want to hear your take. And there's no easy answer for this, but Zachary Gheeb wants to know, Guy Gheeb. Roll with me, Zach. What would be your biggest recommendation to help build a good truck slash search culture in a department that hasn't historically made that a priority?

Josh Wheeler: Little bites, dude. Little bites. and I I've learned this lesson the hard way throughout my career. That 10% pressure 100% of the time. That shit works. I I I used to not go by that at all. But 10% pressure 100% of the time. Find your tribe. Get a good surrounding around you and start taking little bites to start bringing more people in. You're gonna have to be open to ideas. You really are. That's the best way I can answer that. It is just it's not done at once. You're gonna it's a very slow process, but it it is worth it in the end. Corley: No, absolutely. When you and the crazy part is it's when you look backwards after feeling like you haven't done anything and then you realize how far it's come And and it really is a cool feeling when you make that impact. but one hundred percent Rob Fisher, ten percent of the pressure 10 pounds of pressure 100% of the time. Josh Wheeler: Yeah, there you go. There you go. Corley: Yeah. I love the quote. It's and it and it's the truth because it's not a shock and awe campaign. You're never going to shock and awe a department into saying, oh look This young passionate guy is right. We should all change. But it will happen if you keep that pressure up.

Josh Wheeler: I think so many people are they are so passionate about the stuff that they learn, especially whenever you've got a guy who is dedicated to outside training, they expect to come back and present something that is is might be groundbreaking to them. and is groundbreaking that would truly help that department and they take it personally whenever it's not Whenever it's not fully accepted. Corley: Oh yeah. Josh Wheeler: They have to realize that it does take time. There's stuff that you you won't see till shit, years after you're gone. Corley: No, absolutely, absolutely. And the great part was just who was Was it Rob Ramirez who talked about getting the old guys buy-in? I just had the conversation, but they all blurred together to me, so forgive me if it wasn't Rob Ramirez. But he basically, and I want to, it might have been Mark Davidson. So don't don't beat me up, Rob. But long story short, you have to get the old guys and tie it into what they know Otherwise, if you just come back and tell them they're doing it wrong the whole time, then you're not going to make any headway whatsoever. And it was such a power. Yeah, such a powerful, powerful takeaway. So great questions. I love this one coming at you from Steve Mouch. What is your preferred ladders? Not necessarily what you have on your rigs, but 14 versus 16, 24 versus 28.

Josh Wheeler: 28s and 16s, and it is not what we have on our rigs. We have so we we've got Alco 24s and ALCO 44s. We made a big push to get duo safeties and They ordered a few and they didn't fit in the ladder trace of our truck. So the the beam width is actually a little bit wider on duos than it is on Alcos. So we ordered it and we were hype, dude. We got them in like It's gonna be awesome. Tried to put them on the truck, didn't work. But if I can get a duo two section 28 and a 16 roofer, double-ended roofer Corley: Now, I'm not a ladder guy by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, I can throw a ladder, I'm proud of my skills, etc. etc. and the old man goes out there and does it type deal. But I don't understand The duo safety is just lighter across the board. I don't understand. Is there an advantage to the alkali? And I'm not trying to get into brands here or anything. I'm not Is it what is the reason for the heavy ladders other than where they're made and associated with certain rigs or stuff?

Josh Wheeler: I think people don't know what they don't know. I think that they've spec'd out engines in the past and they've come with alcos, so it's just kind of a second thought. Ladders really aren't sexy to a lot of people Corley: That's true. Josh Wheeler: They really are. People people really don't care. And if you look at 24s, the weight really isn't justifiable. So with duos, it's 72. With alcohols, it's 75. The lat the ladder weights really aren't there, but what is there is that channel that digs into your shoulder. Oh yeah. Whereas with a duo, it's it's a flat beam. something else it's a fully encapsulated fly section so you do not see the failures that you see out of with duos that you see out of Alcos. And that's something that as far as like money goes, departments really need to look at So the only thing holding a Alco fly section together on a 24 is four glides. That's it. If those things go, then you've got fly separation. You're going to have a really bad day. As soon as you get above the 24s, then the weight difference is. insane on those. I I I wouldn't want to throw a 28 section Alco. though those things are fucking heavy dude.

Corley: Alco not light. Josh Wheeler: Alco not light at all Corley: And again, not a not a brand thing, but I just did I when I started look researching it for for spec reasons and I'm like holy crap it's and it there's a weight difference it's just like massive what What am I missing here? Why are they still buying these? And I didn't, I don't, I still don't have a good answer for that. so great, great question, Steve. Thank you for it. All right, swinging back over to my notes. Swing them back over. Boom. Value of outside training. Your deep passion with search and ladders. And now we're going to talk about backstep leadership. Backstep leadership and the evolving role of the senior fireman in today's fire service. So talk to me about backstep leadership, what it means to you, and how you've embraced that role. Josh Wheeler: The senior fireman in today's fire service is the title is slowly going away because we really don't have very many senior people. anymore and it sucks especially in my department my department just went paid in i don't i don't want to misspeak but i think it was 2014 whenever i started we had three stations now we're up to seven and i've only been there for three years there has been a immense boom. We looked at the roster and I think other than f four Four or five of us, the rest of our backstep people are less than two years on the job right now. Absolutely insane. Wow. So how can you say about a senior fireman in a department like that? It's tough. But everyone has the ability To show back step leadership. And I think what it really comes down to is competence, free thinking, selfless, and trustworthiness. The selfless aspect, it's not about you. It's not about you. You can be the best fireman in this world, but if your crew is not meeting that expectation as well. then the whole thing falls apart. So you have to and you have to gain that trust from your crew to be able to do that. I tell my captain all the time that if if I force him into a position where he actually has to be a captain, then I'm not doing my job. I I I do not want him to have to come to work and worry about being a captain.

Josh Wheeler: We're all on the same wavelength. I I would say as far as experience goes, we have one of the more experienced stations in the county. So we're all on the exact same wavelength that we're devoted to making each other's job easier. And to me, that's that's doing nothing but showing back step leadership. Corley: I love that. So competence. Obviously, it starts with competence, the hierarchy of competence. Free thinking. Talk to me a little bit about free thinking. Just the ability to make your own decisions. Is it more than that? Is it Josh Wheeler: I I would say the ability to make your own decisions and being a thinking fireman, being able to think outside the box, not being able to be confined. And also not having to be told everything that you need to do. You can think and you can make your own decisions based on the situations of hand. Corley: Situation and the commander's intent, if you want to use a military term. And how much of that, like your value of free thinking as a senior man, how much of that is encouraged by your direct superior, your direct report? Does he allow you the ability to do that free thinking?

Josh Wheeler: One hundred percent. No. 100%. And of course, like I mean there there's some officers out there that i if you're not allowing your men to make decisions and operate at a level higher than what they are, I would argue that that's not true leadership. that might be a tough realization for some people, but I I think our captain expects us to operate at that level and for him to not have to tell us anything and everything that we have to do. I want him to show up to work and be a fireman. Just be one of the boys. Now sometimes he's gotta tap those bugles, that's fine. But for the vast majority, I I want to make everyone else's job a little bit easier Corley: I love it, man. I love it. and then so competence, free thinking, the selflessness. You covered that and made it made it clear how that worked out. And then the trustworthy. And you said you and dig into the trustworthiness just a little bit. I want to pull on that thread just a little bit. Josh Wheeler: Okay. I I think if you're meeting the first three, then you're going to gain trustworthiness. You you have to be a person that's that's worthy of trust. And that comes down, like I said, to to competence, to free thinking, to being selfless. If you emphasize those first three, trustworthiness will come.

Corley: Oh I love that. No, I and the reason I wanted to dig into it is I actually had this is one of my mistakes in messaging. I I don't know of a better way to say it, but I would get in an argument with the chief and I would say, but they don't trust you. They don't trust you. You gotta build trust. And I I now understand because of my communication skills, he wasn't hearing the trustworthy, like you said, worthy of trust. He was hearing that he wasn't a person a trustworthy person. Like he his character was flawed, right? Right. And it and it's and it and I and that was my bad on my part. for not conveying to him, and I love the ability to say that competence, free thinking, selflessness, and the trustworthiness is the byproduct of those things. And that makes so much more sense than me saying they don't trust you. You gotta build their trust. And him going, I never lied to him. Josh Wheeler: You know? Yeah. Corley: Yeah. Josh Wheeler: So and and you you you've got to earn trust and that might be No, I mean I I I feel like trustworthiness is a is a big thing. I I was gonna say it might not be the best way to say that, but I I feel like it really is.

Corley: I think when you say worthy of trust, when you when you put it when you break the word down and say that means you're worthy of trust, it really puts it into perspective. So it is beautiful, brother. I love that on the whole backstep leadership. And I love the fact that you said making my captain's job as easy as possible and making it where he doesn't have to be a captain that day. Absolutely. I'm telling you. And again, obviously you guys have a great relationship because he allows you to be free thinking. And it's a self-fulfilling, self-feeding cycle that hopefully will last until you decide you're gonna promote and start your own And hopefully get your own your own senior man. Something about being a chauffeur or something, I don't know. Where your passion lies. Josh Wheeler: I'll just have to pass on that. Corley: let's talk resilient positive cultures, which is not something this is not a popular I I don't want to put it that way. That's not the right way to say it. Frank Viscuso posts usually something about you know on on his on social media he'll say something like tell me what a toxic trait of a leader is and it'll get like 500 responses you know and then he'll he'll post like tell me the positive traits of a leader and he'll get like 30 responses So talking about positivity really doesn't move the needle, it seems like, but it's so, so, so important. Talk to me about building a resilient positive culture.

Josh Wheeler: That's a really good question. I think it comes down to your crew. You start small. You start small and in some situations there are some cultures that are sadly that that's as far as it's gonna go is just your crew. I've experienced that before and It it does suck, but you just kind of build your own little kingdom of positivity and to a point where nothing else on the outside can hurt you. You just show up to work and just love your little family. Being positive just it's so much cooler to bitch with some people for s for some reason. And That grows and compounds, and all it does is create and it makes everyone miserable. It makes everyone miserable. If you surround yourself with positive people, then you're going to be more positive. just the is the exact same thing as surrounding yourself with high performers. If you surround yourself with high performers, then your performance is going to go up. If you surround yourself with with less than performers. Then your performance is gonna go down eventually. Corley: Oh, I love it. And it's you know four Eagles, you'll be the fifth. Yeah, no, absolutely, man. And it ties right into it. going through adversity And the importance of finding a department that genuinely fills your cup. And I mean, that's like paradise for some people. I mean, that's like the Mecca. That's like something that does, you know, that's like Paradise Land or whatever you want to call it, the Garden of Eden. Does that exist?

Josh Wheeler: It worked. It definitely exists. It's called Rutherford County Fire Rescue. That's existed. Come along with it. Corley: We'll take you. Okay. Josh Wheeler: But it's It was hard to find. And I was told for so long that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Everyone hears that. And I was actually talking to Dustin Sinclair about this. We were doing a it was called Light and Fight, it's at Fort Campbell. It happens every single year. It's a free light. Light light and fight. Yep. It's a free training event put on by the Middle Tennessee Fools. And I was talking to him and We really had similar stories with the department that he was coming from and the department that I was currently at. And we kind of jih hawed over that. He said something about just being hired on at Rutherford County and it being a great department. I thought, man, like Sounds sounds too good to be true. I was so scared for the longest time that if I left my old department, I was going to get on a new department and it was going to be the exact same thing. And I have not experienced that at Rutherford County at all. Man, it's been the culture is so positive. Everyone is hitters. The The employees that truly want to be there genuinely outweigh the bad. That there's not very many departments that can say that, but we can. And it's through standards. It's through holding a minimum standard, a very high minimum standard, to a point that we're going to be okay with. If someone is working and operating at the minimum standard Then that minimum standard is there for a reason. That means that we are accepting that that is okay for them to work at. And it's been a beautiful transition.

Corley: No, I love it, man. I love hearing the positive story, man. A hundred percent. Because so often we get the other. And and so that is great for people who are thinking about it, that there is that light. Brock Larson wants to know, do you have any advice for a firefighter navigating the balance of a growing family at home and a fire career? Because you are a new dad, so. about six months, seven months along? Six months. Josh Wheeler: Six months. Little boy is six months old. That is such a good question. You You learn so quick that everything you did before that kid doesn't even matter, man. It doesn't matter. And but then it changes and you realize that everything you do is for him. Everything. Yeah. It is tough to navigate that road for a lot of people because I don't want to step back from the fire service because I want to create a road for him one day if he wants to go down that path. I want to have that legacy kind of set out for him, but at the same point in time, I don't want to be not present at home, right? So I've kind of taken this past year off. I I have not done anything. I'm hitting up prioritize the search and I'm hitting up for them in Texas in November.

Corley: Nice. Josh Wheeler: Aside from that, it it's been a little man's time. Corley: Right on. Hey, you'll never regret it. Josh Wheeler: And I yeah, I wouldn't change it in the world. Corley: Right on. Hey, you only get one shot. I mean that's it's it's such a so many cliches we could throw out there about kids and family and all that, but everybody knows how I feel about it. There is no such thing as work-life balance. your family comes first. No. And my that's my that's my book. Everybody teach their own, but that's what I will preach over and over and over, and I stand by it. I agree. I love that question. Thank you for that question. Brock. And one thing to keep in mind, because there there is, I'll do a quick little rant here because I've been thinking about this. It's like when I was young, you know, and I would lay tile. That was my day-off job. Most of us had day-off jobs. Luckily, places pay a little better than when I started, but it's still not great, but it's a little better. But I would literally go do a 24-hour shift, leave shift, go and lay tile for like 12 hours, go home, see my kids for a few hours, go to sleep, go back on shift the next day. And that was just taking care of, that was just paying bills.

Josh Wheeler: That was just, you know, I I never do what you gotta do. Corley: I was just trying to, you know, set them up for success and and and and it was work. And I think about it now where if I hired on today, A, I would make more money not lay it would be about even without, I wouldn't have to have the day off job to stay. So I always think about that in relation to I wasn't a bad dad. I I still I was just doing what I had to do. And it's just the the life is different and the world is different. But it's okay to to Invest time and to be good at what you're doing. Just don't lose sight of what's most important. When you're there, be all there. And when you're at the station, be all in at the station. So anyway, I'm not, I haven't quite articulated that whole train of thought yet. So it was a minor minor minor rant during your scrap, I'm sorry. Josh Wheeler: No, dude, I I totally agree. And it's tough during that first year, especially. Oh yeah. Like coming to work being dog ass tired. Like I I'm not ashamed to say it. Like sometimes, dude, I want to take a nap. Like, just please let me like sit down. for a little while.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Josh Wheeler: because they keep you busy. They keep you busy. And it's a it's a beautiful thing, but I don't think that there's anything wrong with taking a step back and kind of separating yourself from from a job like the the this the fire service will be here long after I'm gone I I would much rather spend my time at home. But you also have to find balance in doing what you love. It is my job, but it's also something that I love doing. Speaker 5: Yeah. Josh Wheeler: genuinely. So I don't want to say work life balance because you just said it didn't exist. Corley: That's hyperbole to make a point. Josh Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm on the same page as you though. Corley: No, absolutely, man. what does the quote Master your craft mean to you? That comes from Jordan Thomas, by the way. Josh Wheeler: I love Jordan. I think you have to master the basics. The basics build rock stars. it's It will take you far beyond all the special operations and all the cool Gucci stuff that you see everybody doing. that's that's what I've always meant. With that, being able to perfect your craft, being able to master your craft. If you look on the side of engines, It always says fire department, fire rescue, fire EMS, but fire always comes first, and we can't lose sight of that. I think it's so important for firemen to to be fulfilled and be allowed to be firemen. If they're not, then they start to lose their purpose. So mastering your craft and building on the basics means just that

Corley: Love it, man. And I love, this is my favorite quote of the night, the basics build rock stars. Dude, that is powerful, powerful quote. And very There is a bedrock of truth to that statement, man. The basics build rock stars. Josh Wheeler: On all this cool special operations stuff you mess up and everyone says, oh, it was a complex scene There was a lot of moving parts. Go out and drop a fucking ladder on your head at a scene. Go out and mess up a stretch and see. Whoa. Like, I thought that dude was supposed to be squared away. You'll get thrown under the bus really quick whenever you mess up the basics. That's the reason why they matter. That's the essence of our entire job. Corley: That's it, man. I love it. I love it right there. So I love to talk about books. I don't know if you're a reader or not. I love to talk about books. I'm always looking for more books to add to the never-ending list of Books I'll probably never get to, but I still like to ask the question, what book or books do you think firefighters should be reading?

Josh Wheeler: This is the part where I get zero points. Corley: Okay. Josh Wheeler: Yeah, I I absolutely would love to say that I'm a reader. Like I see like all those movies where like the couples are sitting in bed like with a nightlight quietly reading to themselves and it sounds so awesome My brain just is not working like that. one book that I will say that has truly changed my mindset on leadership where it gave different avenues, different approaches to leadership is Itch Your Ship by Mike Abershoft. Abershoft. That is one hell of a book. That's one hell of a book. Of course, report from Engine Company 82. Great book. I also have to give a massive, massive shout out to Dan Drury, San Antonio, Texas He gifted me this book whenever I found out that I was going to become a dad. It's the Birth Guys Go-To Guide for New Dads by Brian W. Sam. And it has everything in this book, and it's mainly written as a way to support your wife. through it in any and all questions is that this book has got it. So any new dads that are listening to this or will listen to this, go buy you a copy. of GoToGuide for New Dads.

Corley: GoTo Guide for New Dads. Josh Wheeler: Yep. Corley: I promise you it'll help out. Practical Useful stuff. Report from Engine Company, one of my favorite books of all time. And and It's Your Ship. I say this every time someone brings it up. I didn't realize how much I ripped off from Abershoff when I wrote the Nine L's until I went back and read it Such a powerful, powerful book. Had a huge impact on me. So all that being said, we have a thing we do on the scrap. It's called the Five Questions for Firefighters. And on it, I ask you five questions that have no right or wrong answers. They are strictly your opinion. The points are arbitrary assigned by me with the help of the audience. So my first question to you is Josh Wheeler, are you ready for the Five Questions for Firefighters version 4. 0? Josh Wheeler: Full scent. Let's do it. Corley: Here we go. You are the proby once more. And you have to cook the meal at the firehouse. What is your go-to meal? Josh Wheeler: I guarantee you that someone's gonna put it down in the comments. Guarantee you. I am not the best cook. Pizza sliders. All day, every day.

Corley: Pizza sliders. Josh Wheeler: Pizza sliders. That's it. Corley: You're gonna have to s describe. Describe tastes Josh Wheeler: Okay, so it is super easy. Spicy marinara. lay it down right on the bread, ham, pepperoni. bun, put a little bit of garlic, garlic butter on top, bake at 375 for 15 minutes, boom, you're good to go Yeah, big field. And that tastes really good. Corley: Sean Meckling and Bigfield Eldmith Sliders, Pizza Sliders. Josh Wheeler: That's my captain. Yeah. Corley: Which one? Big Phil? Josh Wheeler: Or that would be Big Phil. Sean is our he he's a new guy with us. Well I say new guy, new newest guy. Corley: Max points for pizza sliders. I have to try those at some point. I'm not sure. Yeah, we'll say max points. It's a job challenge. It's time You're in route and responding, just like the scene from Backdraft, where he's slapping that tape into that cassette deck. What song are you playing in route? Josh Wheeler: My music taste is out there, dude. I was really I was planning on really messing y'all up and hitting y'all with some T-Swizzle But I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it though. I'm not gonna do it though. I'm gonna have to go Suicide Boys Us versus them.

Corley: Suicide Boys Us versus them I do not know it So that's fine because I'm gonna have to go listen to it now. It will be added to the Spotify list, and you will get max points for a that But my my real curiosity is up on this is no points, no points available. You're locked in. What was the T-Swiz song you were thinking about putting up? You were contemplating Was it strictly for joke values? Or you were you somewhat serious like guilty pledge? Josh Wheeler: I mean I would I would jam out to some T swizzle on the way to the fire. Like we we could hit up some cruel summer on the way to a fire. Let's do it. Corley: All right, I'm sorry I asked. Josh Wheeler: Come on. Corley: Whose boots, past, present, or future, would you like to spend 24 hours in? Josh Wheeler: And I thought about this question a lot. And to be completely honest I don't want to be in anybody else's boots. Like it it's it's I'm I'm if I could feel someone else's boots in the past, it would be mine seven years ago. I would love to go back to myself seven years ago. And be able to explain that everything, all these trials, all these tribulations, everything that you're going through, all the hard times, everything is going to get better and blessings are coming your way. No. I would have to go back and say that.

Corley: Okay. No, I I almost was like, well, you're not getting max points then. But then you you did you went you went to yourself seven years ago, which is a viable answer and a great answer Man, especially with with the message you want to give younger you. And I think that's a phenomenal answer. I'll give Max points absolutely three for three, no pressure, but now you're retired, you are sitting on the beach You're sipping on my ties or your cocktail of choice. What do you want to hear through the grapevine that the people you used to work with, how do they now how how do you want to hear that they describe you to the new to the new hires? Josh Wheeler: I think the main reason why we all do this, if you're passionate about this job. The biggest goal that you have is to leave this job better than you found it. And if someone could say, you know, Josh Wheeler, he was a fireman here, he really left this job better than he found it. that that would be a that would be a win in my book. being able to never being hesitant to helping somebody out that's another big one. I never want anyone to say that I missed an opportunity to give them a little bit of guidance along the way. Leave it better than you found it.

Corley: Nice. Great. And and it's the thing that so many people say, and I love the fact that you tied that in there with the fact that I wanted to say that I actually did it. You know, that's pretty powerful. Josh Wheeler: Yeah, absolutely. I I I didn't just use it as a quote Corley: Yeah, no, that's that's a really cool measuring stick because everybody says it. People throw it around like almost like little pithy little you know saying, but to actually use that as a measuring stick is pretty cool. number five, and four for four, by the way. Number five, heavy fire Searchable space. I think I know your answer. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say I'm gonna I'm willing to lay odds I could guess the answer. But would you rather be assigned to a window-initiated search or first in on the nozzle? Josh Wheeler: Give me that search every single time. Give me that search. That's everything on the fire ground supports the search. Everything on the fire ground supports the search. nozzle's cool, but search every single time. Corley: No, I wouldn't I would not have lost money. So 100%. Max points, my brother, for staying consistent. that we there was actually a lot of consistency throughout, which I'm not a surprise, but you started with little bytes. You started with little bites and then questions that tied back into it, it was all about small bytes, 10% And it just all came together. It was a beautiful, beautiful scrap. And those five Max Points questions officially makes it 307 in the books. 307 in the books, my man. Thank you first of all for spending your evening and taking the time to do so with the scrappers and myself. But if someone wants to get a hold of you. If they want to reach out to you, if they want to just ask questions, possibly see where you're gonna be, what's the best way to get a hold of you?

Josh Wheeler: You can get a hold of me on Facebook, Josh Wheeler. You can get a hold of me on Instagram. You can give me a call anytime, day or night, 270-791-6197 We'll chop it up. Corley: I love it. I love it. Josh Wheeler: Hopefully not hopefully not live. Corley: Hey, I thought you did excellent live. there's a couple things I'm doing that new this year, so it's not real news. We've been doing it for seven months. But the first one is So a guest that you think needs to be on the scrap, I'm always looking to expand my circles. I'm looking for because like I said, I would talk to my friends every week and it'd be the same, you know. group of people over and over and over. And I already do it enough, but I'm always looking for new people. So who do you think should be on the scrap? And I again I always say this. You can't possibly know all 300 plus guests. So you may say somebody who's been on, but I still like to ask. Josh Wheeler: God, there's so many people. I would love to see Dustin Sinclair. He's got a great story to tell about how the how the minimum standard failed him. He he's got an excellent story to tell.

Corley: Where's he at? Josh Wheeler: He's at Rutherford County. Corley: Okay, okay. Josh Wheeler: Ruth Rutherford County Fire Rescue. Yep. Corley: I see I I know the name. I feel like I know the name, but I don't know if I should or shouldn't. A lot of them seem familiar, but go ahead. Josh Wheeler: Sorry. Chris Watson. Chris Watson. Chris Watson. I can't think of the department name to save my life now. I'm completely drawing a blank. Somebody put it in the comments. Jordan, put it in the comments, buddy. He is such a knowledge He is such a knowledgeable guy though. Corley: Okay. Josh Wheeler: Over anything. Corley: Okay. I love that. Chris Watson Cool. I'll get the they said thousand percent on Sinclair. Yes, sir. That that it'll catch up. There's always always a delay. But the other thing I wanted to ask is Oh, I forgot what I wanted to ask. I hate it when my mind does that. It'll come, it'll come to me. The other thing is a challenge that you give out to the scrappers. There was a lot of cool videos of people masking up from last week. It was pretty cool to see happening in the in the Discord. But from you, the challenge to the listeners that they need to complete by next week's episode

Josh Wheeler: Hmm. So it's not going to be as cool and it's not going to be able to be filmed. But what I would like to challenge people to do is to go to work. and make someone else's job on your crew 1% easier. And that's not a week challenge. That is every single time you go to work. Make someone else's job on your crew 1% easier and watch your team flourish because it's contagious. It's contagious. That's going to be passed on and soon you're going to have an extremely highly functioning team But you just have to study everybody. And that's the reason why I can't can't necessarily think of examples on how to do it. Study your crew. Study their mindset, study the stuff that they do every single tour, and take care of it for them. Take a little bit of weight off their plate. And I think that's what creates a a very effective team. Corley: I love it. Lead by example and and improve their day and watch it come full circle. there's your challenge. And he said Ohio Township Fire. Ohio Township. Josh Wheeler: Thank you. Thank you. Corley: And they said Chris Watson is a legend. That's from Indigo Springs. So absolutely I'll be looking into that. I'll give me their info so I can have it and I'm working on coming up with a good system for booking because I've got to get a better one than my brain because my brain lets me down over and over. So there we go. Housekeeping time. Go to patreon. com slash the vigilante. Become a vigilante. It's amazing. I won't, yeah, whatever. The best part is we're gonna go roast Josh in the after party. That's gonna be amazing. The roast is always brutal it's a great if you are looking to connect with like-minded souls, the same way Josh talked about getting to outside training, the vigilantes is a great place to connect to other passionate firefighters so you know you're not alone. absolutely Sam will be posting the link for the after party and show up. We'll bust his chops next week coming up on the scrap. It is Frank Ricci. I have been Needing to have him on for a few years, but because of my terrible brain, I haven't made it happen. He's coming on next week. It's gonna be, you don't want to miss it.

Corley: It's gonna be phenomenal. Then it is the one and only Chris Tennyson. So Your next couple Tuesdays are planned out. It's gonna be fun. All right, enough jabbering. Let's get to the after party. Thank you once again, Josh Wheeler, for sharing your evening. And it was an amazing scrap being a phenomenal. Audience, you make the scrap magical. I say it each and every week because it is true. You absolutely the scrap would not exist without you. So thank you so much. Thank you for tuning in live. Thank you for the phenomenal questions. Thank you for making the scrap great. I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. Speaker 4: I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. This job is not safe. So stay smart out there