Weekly Scrap #277 - Chris Gilpin on training, then & now

Corley: Corley Moore coming at you. Wanted to talk very briefly before the scrap starts tonight and And if if you know me, you know that I love the vigilantes. I love the like-minded souls, and I'm always looking for ways that we can have more interaction. One of the things that every vigilante says when they join is they're looking to connect with those like-minded souls. They're looking to connect with other vigilantes and people who feel the way they feel. And so I'm constantly looking for ways to make that happen. So far, I love Patreon. I love Patreon for bringing us together, but it hasn't created that the the ability to share information and things the way I wanted. But one thing we did discover was that Discord is integrated into Patreon. So we've been working for the last couple weeks to launch a Discord server where the vigilantes can get together and hang out. Now I'll be the first person to say I am not a tech guru. I'm much better at forcing doors and and hooking ceiling. I'm better at destroying stuff than I am at using technology. But that being said, Discord has so many. options that look like they could be phenomenal for the vigilantes and and for our growth and for the fellowship and the camaraderie that we want to share. It's got chat rooms that you can post in. separated by category where we can have great discussions. It's got voice channels you can jump in and have voice discussions with people at the drop of a hat without any without needing to start a zoom call or anything. You just drop in and drop out. You can share screens. We have plans. People have plans to share classes that they've built so they can get feedback before they go and teach those classes. I mean there's so much that could be used for this Discord server and we're just scratching the surface. So get in, come be a part of it, man. It looks to be an incredible platform. And if you want to be a part of it, head over to patreon. com slash the vigilantes. Become a part, man. If you're not a vigilante, why not? five bucks a month. You can't even afford a fancy coffee nowadays for five bucks. So five bucks a month, you're you're a member of the like-minded souls.

Corley: So come be apart. Looking forward to seeing and talking to you in the Discord. Stay safe. Speaker 2: In the demanding world of firefighting, training against real-world scenarios is crucial, yet traditional training facilities. Often fall short in providing realistic, versatile, and cost-effective training solutions. Affordable drill towers presents a groundbreaking solution. By positioning an affordable drill tower alongside your existing ComX Boxes burn buildings. A realm of realistic, multi-level training scenarios is unlocked. This integration has been adopted successfully by various fire departments, enhancing their training capabilities exponentially. Delve into the heart of live fire training scenarios within the connex boxes, now amplified by the ADT's multi-floor access, providing an unparalleled training ground. Corley: We started looking at connex boxes about probably ten years ago. To me you can't beat them especially for the price. The affordable drill tower was the same way. We've got six floors, we've got standpipes on every floor, we've got more anchor point. and you can count we've got removable floors, removable stairs. Chris Gilpin: We can go into the second and third floor off the drill tower. So whether you want us use it as an external stairwell or a high rise, we can do all that and mimic just about any type of situation that the members of our fire department might Encounter.

Speaker 2: Experience cost effectiveness, enhanced realistic training, versatile operations, easy multi-floor access, and innovative solutions to age-old training challenges. Take your fire department's training to the next level with Affordable Drill Towers. Reach out to Affordable Drill Towers to elevate your training capabilities today. Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance, it is weekly scrap number 277. My guest tonight is Chris Gilpin. He is a lieutenant in Claremont County, Ohio, which is near Cincinnati, with 26 years on the job. He's also a U. S. Navy veteran a husband and proud father of two children. Chris is the owner of first in, last out, fire equipment training, and is what he calls the head cat herder. of Oathkeepers Fire Conference. He's an instructor with Brothers in Battle, and it is my absolute pleasure to welcome him to the scrap for episode number 277, my brother, Chris Gilpin. Chris Gilpin: Thanks, sir. Glad to be here. Corley: I'm excited to have you on. Is there anything I missed in the intro? It was short and sweet. Is there anything you'd like to add? Chris Gilpin: No, no. I like short and sweet. Corley: Perfect. Audience, get your questions ready. Get get them primed. Kyle is trying to get in here, but he is he is currently taking off taxiing to a runway. He says as soon as he gets Wi-Fi, he's gonna be He's going to be chiming in and starting to field your questions. But Sam is in the chat. He is looking for your questions. So get them in for Chris or myself because tonight we are going to have some fun So let's do those beautiful sponsors and we'll kick it off right out the gate. When it comes to performance under pressure, you need equipment that won't let you down. com and of course i can't go without saying man if you haven't got your copy not you don't have to get the hardback you don't have to get the hardback The PDF is free. Get the PDF. Share it with everybody you know. The book of search is out. Go to firehousevigilance. com. Download the PDF. Go to Engine Company Resurrection. Go to Smooth Board Cart. Go anywhere you can find it. Share it. and that's it. That's all the sponsors and we're ready to scrap. Chris, my man. We're gonna kick it off and talk about training because I I know that this is a subject that is near and dear to your heart then and now, how and why we got to where we are.

Corley: We actually talked a little bit, you know, a little bit right before we went live about kind of we both got into the fire service around the same time. But training, take it wherever you want to go Chris Gilpin: Well, I mean, we've obviously you came up in the late 90s, early 2000s. I notice now like wherever we teach, like it tells me how old I am because Most of them don't even know what we're talking about, right? Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: but you know, holding on to boots. like if somebody would have told me back then, hey, you need to control the environment when you're on the nozzle. that would have resonated like that would have done huge things for me moving forward. But you know, the don't owe don't flow water into smoke. I mean I mean, I'm sure you were told that, right? Corley: Oh yeah, never scorched smoke. Chris Gilpin: And it didn't really matter what the smoke looked like. If it was black, turbulent, nasty, all the stuff we know about today, and they honestly they knew about it previous to us too. But let's talk about how we got there. I mean you know late 90s we had good gear The best we'd ever had. fires were burning faster, right? Yeah. we we got to a point where we were so encapsulated, plus it was that safe culture, you know, we're we're more important than them.

Corley: Oh yeah. Chris Gilpin: And it was it set us up for, you know, we're not going to flow water. And we're gonna we're gonna get as close as we can. Plus we have these hundred PSI automatic nozzles that were flowing, you know, now that we know probably 85. But I mean, we're s we're we were still successful a lot. And what's that do? That only reinforces the things we were doing wrong. you know, I mean what imagine a fire service today where we would get a proby with, you know, basically no time on the job and we didn't completely have to retrain that person. I mean there are some excellent fire academies in this country. but there's also for for that number, there's probably ten times as many that are are simply failing. you know, how do we, you know, when we think about academies, there are, again, there are some very good instructors out there, right? Right. Corley: Absolutely. And and great, great motivation for the ones that go out there and put their time in and things like that. But go ahead. Chris Gilpin: For sure. but you know, like like an Oathkeepers fire conference. Right. Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: I told I said when I was given the pre-speech this year, I said, listen, here's the secret. if you have more than five years on the job, nothing we teach here should be new news, right? Unfortunately, how many people do you see? It's new news. Like these are basics. We're teaching basics. We're throwing ladders. We're doing searches We're stretching. We're flowing. I mean these are all basics.

Corley: Yeah, Chris, and I'll even I'll even go, you know, it to myself and my own. I was learning stuff with 15 years on the job, going to a conference for the first time and having the you know the basically the scales come off the eyes going whoa wait a second what's going you can do this stuff like for sure no absolutely for sure you know so Chris Gilpin: Well how do we how do we get from there to here? I th I think we're improving right now. I think we're in a better place than we've been in my career, but we still have a ways to go. you know Well we start with the with the firefighter curriculum, okay? Okay. So I mean they're based in your state, right? Corley: Well, so yeah, one of the bigger ones. Absolutely. Chris Gilpin: One of them. the backyard You know, and and I see Justin McWilliams argues with people all the time about the firefighter curriculum. And I see there's a guy on there, I don't know who he is. I would assume he's associated with him to some extent. And he says, you know, we want we want you to be involved, but you're gonna have to compromise. Well, you know, we're living in a day today where we have more data.

Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: We have more proof of best practices than we've ever had in our entire lives So if it's if there if it's data driven and it's best practices, why do we need to compromise? Corley: Right. Right? No, absolutely. And and the thing is, is we have we have Data driven by with the ULFSRI studies and and and firefighter rescue survey, we have actual measurable verifiable data, both experiential and Just quantifiable data. It's not just the old got old salty dog story about crawling down a hallway that's driving the the the tactic or the sh strategy. Chris Gilpin: Right. So and let's be honest, I mean the old salty dog guys, let's think about what they were doing. They were flowing water early, right? Oh yeah. that we needed for 100 psi nozzles. So they had smooth boards. They have 50 psi. They were wearing rubber or or denim coats, you know, hip boots, stuff like that. They didn't have SCBAs. They had the flow wall. Right. And you weren't having people melted to the floor. But when we encapsulated ourselves in the 90s, we had SCBA, we had the best gear we've ever had. We had hunt fancy 100 PSI automatic nozzles. We weren't flowing water into smoke. You know, see the fire before you do it. What was happening? Right. People were getting melted to the floors. so I think the old guys knew they didn't have names for it. They didn't have data, they didn't have that type of stuff. They just knew it worked. so I think I think we've gone back to a lot of what they already knew, and now we have the data to back it up. So when we look at a fire one curriculum, I mean if it had somebody told me in fire one, hey, you need to control the environment. If it's hot, if the smoke's moving fast, if it's black, then you need to flow water. You need to pull that, right? You need to control it. Let's look at this. What if a Fire One curriculum across the country required everyone that graduates that academy to be able to mask with gloves in 20 seconds or less

Corley: Hmm. Chris Gilpin: You know, I was talking to my proby the other day, and it's like we we do mask-up drills and we do them at the bottom of the ladder, we do them at the top of the ladder, we do them while we're calling for water, we do them walking, we do them all over the place Because just the ability to mask with gloves in any position gives you so much more capability on the fire ground. Right? So that seems like it's a very e okay That that seems very easy to say we need to change this in the curriculum. Why is it so difficult? Why can't we do that? Why do I have to take a guy that just got out of the academy and shows up and I say, hey, we mask with gloves here? And he he well I've never done that Corley: And and what do you do have you I I don't have the answer for why it's so difficult. I mean I so I have some of the tr the the standard like follow the money and And things like that. And you know, and I'm not not, I believe me, I'm not knocking that answer. It's but is there what what's your theories on why why is it so difficult to get something that basic? into a as a standard.

Chris Gilpin: It seems bureaucratic to me. I mean we we teach across the country right like we know who is really good at teaching certain things right ground ladders search you know why it why isn't the nozzle forward program part of the standard curriculum you know i mean we know all these people The people that are writing the the manuals for Firefighter 1 and 2, I don't know any of them. I don't ever see them teach, right? Corley: Yeah. Chris Gilpin: So to me, and and I may be completely uneducated on this. But to me, it seems like it's pretty bureaucratic, right? there's people that I don't that I don't know, that you don't know, that are writing curriculum that how much time have these people spent crawling down hot smokey hallway Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: So I I think that would be a start. you know, we have the data, we have the people. I mean You know, let's say Aaron Fields writes Minuteman deployments in a in a manual, you know. Jargon. Yeah, jargon. Corley: Terminology across the fire service. Absolutely. Chris Gilpin: You know, Kyle. Kyle and Kyle writes fire attack, you know, OJ writes ladders. Justin McWilliams, Cody writes search. You know, I mean, we have the people to do this But why can't we? And and it just seems it seems very bureaucratic to me. I like I said, I don't know.

Corley: No, no, I'm with you. I love the question. I love and I'm just to sit here and and and and wax you know about it is philosophical and say why can't we because you the the the the the manual you just listed is what I would kill to have every recruit read I mean make it anyway and and even when they arrive they can start reading that manual once they get there. Chris Gilpin: Right. I mean, the book of search is the search manual now. Right? I mean, it it yeah, it's it's a compilation, it's data driven. It's experience based, right? And like we'll when we talk about books, I want to talk about that a little bit. Okay. How that came to be. But you know, the book of Andy. You know, Andy was I give every one of my new guys a book of Andy, you know, because the information is important. It's old But it's time tested. Corley: Oh yeah. Chris Gilpin: You know, I remember being young and reading, I used to read fire engineering's cover to cover when I was when I was young because we didn't have the internet right we didn't have any of this stuff but I read them cover to cover and some of it even at 23 years old I knew like this is garbage. But some of it, and I remember reading Andy's articles when I was young, you know, and they always were ones that I read, you know, small droplets and all that kind of stuff But to get back to where we're at, I mean, you know, I had, I probably had five, I don't know, Five, eight years on the job. I got promoted pretty, pretty early. I was in the Navy from ninety-three to ninety-eight. I got out. I think I was maybe five years on the job before I was promoted. So I was pretty young. But you know, we'd been to some fires. I had a great crew. I felt like I knew way more than I actually did. Sure. So we had we had a big shakeup, big shift change up, and I had a completely new crew. Like, you know, one day you come in, next day, completely new crew, new house, new everything, right? so we were busy that day. And typically I would have sat down and had a talk about how we're going to work, right?

Chris Gilpin: This is jargon type stuff. This is set the expectation. I do, absolutely. Right. we started off the day, you know, standard day. Like one of those days, you got to have a talk, boom. 658, you're out the door. And dudes are out all day long, back and forth, passing each other, medic and engine passing each other. so it's launch time And I thought, you know, I'm gonna have I'm gonna have this talk now, but I didn't. It's like, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna let these guys have their lunch. We're busy. Well, day went on the same way. it's three o'clock in the morning now, we get an apartment fire. And it's a good apartment fire. you know, it got dispatched as it was on the third floor. I went up to the third floor. It wasn't, it was on the second. I opened the door, you had the locomotive Get black nasty smoke pouring out the door. couldn't see anything. Like literally I put my hand on my face piece The only I couldn't even see my hand. You know what I mean? Corley: Yeah, yeah. Chris Gilpin: So knowing what I know now, that's like we're flowing is from the threshold.

Speaker 2: Right. Chris Gilpin: I had a pretty much a brand new firefighter that was on the nozzle not much experience at all i asked him are you ready you know we had a clean stretch nice stretch i said are you ready he said yeah You know, my the way I'm thinking is when I say are you ready, like you're ready. Like you've already bled this out, you're ready to go, you're breathing air, you're all good come to find out what he thought I was saying was, are you ready for water? Right. Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: Typically, you know jargon, yeah. Corley: The jargon would be a good idea. Chris Gilpin: So we go in, it's a kind of like a half wall that then you can see the kitchen behind it. To the right is like a dining room, living room. You know, the apartment was deeper than wide Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: Couldn't see anything. It's hotter than hell. we get in there. I wanted to get past that knee wall and get into the middle of that room so that we could open it up and hit everything. at once right sure so we get there it's hot it's nasty you know at that time in my life flowing from the threshold was not even something that So we get in there and I'm like, open it up. He's like I don't have water. You know, this is a brand new guy. You trust me. You trust what I'm saying. All right, let's go, we go. so on my previous crew, basically when the when they thought the water the line needed to be charged, they say water's coming And if I didn't want it, I'd say no, hold off. This one, this dude, I like I ran out the door after all this went down. Dude had his hand on the lever. Like he's waiting to hear. you know, just same department, but communication differences. Sure. well while we were in there, like literally it went from I couldn't see my hand in front of my face to all the smoke was gone. And it was fire all the way back, as far as I could see, above us, around us, behind us, everywhere. Like it turned into fire right now. You know, knowing what I know now, it's because we gave it exactly what it needed to turn into fire. but you know, you hear Kyle talk about if you've never been punched in the face.

Chris Gilpin: Well, I knew right then I'd been punched in the face because I'd never seen anything like this It was actually kind of mesmerizing, you know, like holy shit. I can see everything now. So I told the dudes who were on the line, like, hey, get out, get out. so they're they're heading out And I'm like, I don't think we're going to get out of here. So there was a window, like probably, I don't know, 10 feet away from me. It seemed like it was 100 feet at the time And at that time, it's like, you know, I'm going to go punch this window out. And at least maybe it'll draw the fire out that window. If things are really bad, I'll just dive out the damn window. I got to it, I swung my halligan and literally it hit the molding. I could like I couldn't move any further. So carpet starting to get slippery, stuff like that. I quick like a bunny back across We're all out the door, boom, pull the door shut, charge line. I go out, like I said, the engineer's standing there with his hand on the lever. Come back in, we go in, a line comes in behind us, two lines, boom, knock it down.

Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: fires out. You know, it didn't even take a whole lot of water. I mean, but we were flowing from the time we from the threshold that point and you know like right then I learned like water in the right place and a lot of it from the time you enter the threshold does a lot. but you know we clean up go back and I laid my in my rack that night and stared at the ceiling and thought, Jesus, I almost melted my entire crew to the floor tonight. and it's my fault. And that was that was like a change and it that changed my career, you know, because it's like I am missing something. There are there are things I don't know. obviously the communication thing, like I'll never make that mistake. again. But I didn't recognize the shit show that was about to happen because I'd been told you know, from my academy on up to that point, don't flow water and smoke, don't wash the walls, you know, blah, blah, blah. Corley: Steam burn if you open up, you know, and all that. Chris Gilpin: And then shortly, oh absolutely. And then so it's like I I gotta I gotta figure this out. so I remember, you know, a couple years later, I went to nozzle forward and when Aaron was talking You know, I think it was up in Columbus and actually Gary Lane, Jeff Shoop, all those guys were in my class. But there was a Friday night thing where he was talking about training methodology. and all that kind of stuff. And it was like listening to Aaron talk, it's like, holy shit, this, this, all of what he's saying is what I missed. Like nobody ever, no, nobody told me this

Corley: Dude, I'm telling you, when he talks and it's just like light bulbs. Chris Gilpin: But it but it automatically made sense because I could never even before that, like from the academy on, like I could never wrap my mind around It's really, really hot, but we're not gonna flow water. You know, the smoke looks really, really bad, but we're not gonna flow water. I could never wrap my mind around it. And then when I went to Nazal Forward, it it it changed my career and that was the first time, but I've probably talked too much now. Corley: No, brother. So you can tell when it's good is when everybody's silently listening. It's a it was yeah. Chris Gilpin: So that was that that right there was that kind of put me on a whole different path. Like there's a lot of things I don't know that I need to know and I you know I started going to classes and I hadn't been to classes in a couple years at that point. Corley: What you what year we what year are we talking about here? Chris Gilpin: Probably two thousand five. Okay. Two thousand eight. Somewhere like somewhere around there. Corley: So you had five to ten years eight eight eight years in the eight to ten years in the on the job?

Chris Gilpin: Yeah, about. Corley: Yeah. Chris Gilpin: but I've been to, you know, I've been To tech rescue, I'd been to all of the cool stuff back then, writ and tech rescue and all this other stuff. and I kind of that was when I said, you know, we're not killing people in tech rescue instance. and tech rescue, like if you remember, it was like the training was excellent. Corley: Oh yeah. I mean what my experience was Chris Gilpin: with it yes absolutely you know the the number of technical rescues i've done working as a firefighter are minimal compared to the number of fires i've been to So at that point in my career, it was like, you know, the basics are where it's at. Like forcible entry, understanding, flowing water, stretching, you know, like academy level stuff. Let's let's think about how they do things in the academy. Academy back when we were there, right? We'd stretch. There was there was stretching, but when we did live burns, when we did fire ground ops, You'd stretch one time and then a charged hose line went in and out the door all day long. Right? Yeah. So what's what's that telling someone that's in the fire academy? It's telling them that stretching hose really isn't that important.

Corley: It's not that big a deal. Chris Gilpin: Yeah. Right. It's not that big a deal. But how m stretching hose is a very big deal, right? Corley: Oh yeah. Chris Gilpin: let's think about let's think about guys today, even today, how many guys do we get that show up that are straight out of the fire academy or that have been around for a while that don't even understand a halligan. They don't understand why it's made the way it is. They don't understand how to use it. They've been to the academy. I mean if you don't understand that tool and let every fire scene has 10 halligans running around it minimum, right? How many of those people carrying those haligans actually know how to use them Corley: No, it's a great question. Great question. And I'm telling you, again, I will be honest with you, and it's part of the class I teach, and it's and it's just me Hopefully adding credence to what you're saying. And it's almost embarrassing to know this, but it took a kid from our department going to Wichita hot and coming back. You know, he went on his own time, his own dime, went to Wichita hot, and he came back and said, hey, we don't have halligans here And and I was like, what are you talking about? I can show you one on that. He goes, no, it's not a that's not a hallican. That's a three-piece paratech rescue tool. You know, and and that but that was ignorance. He just didn't know, I didn't know what I didn't know, you know, and now I did. And he made, you know, and it, but it was, it was eye-opening. Sorry, go ahead. It was just, but that wasn't that long ago. That was like a decade ago. So that's embarrassing to say, but it's the truth.

Chris Gilpin: Right. And like when we started Oath Keepers, fire it was 2017 You know, I went around looking for training facilities and people would ask, oh, what are you going to do? I said, well, it's basics. You know, we're throwing ladders, we're doing searches We're stretching hose and and like there were people that were damn near on the verge of laughter. Like nobody's gonna go to that. Right, right. And it's like, well, in my mind, it's like, okay, yeah, ri if you're in a rich situation, your back is against the wall already. But if we're really, really good at basics, How many of those are we going to prevent the fact that we're going to do that? Corley: We can reduce, yeah, reduce the chance of needing it, yes. Chris Gilpin: And how much better is it for them, right? The people we serve, if we're good at our jobs. Corley: No, yeah. Chris Gilpin: You know So and you know you're an officer, obviously, you're battalion chief, right? Corley: Yes, sir. Chris Gilpin: So when we go to command classes and we talk to a lot of chiefs and stuff like that, they want to talk about risk analysis all the time, right? Risk analysis, risk, risk benefit, all that kind of stuff. And we've been hearing it since I started in 1998. Right. But my biggest question that I've always had, and I try to wrap my head around, is how do we quantify risk if we don't know what our capabilities truly are?

Corley: Absolutely. Absolutely. Chris Gilpin: No, preach. Because there's a million variables that go into risk. Some of them we can't control. But if I don't know the skill level and tempo Of my crew, and you as a battalion chief, you don't know the skill level and tempo of all of your crews. How do how are you able to gauge and quantify risk Because risk is subjective, right? Corley: Very. Chris Gilpin: So for me, what what what a a kid that's 20 years old that has his first fire he's going to, risk for him is significantly different than what I consider risk. Corley: Absolutely. Chris Gilpin: Right? But we try to use risk as a like it's a one size fits all And it's not. you know, I and I think that the whole like the basic skills have to be lost Corley: Yes. Chris Gilpin: That that's where training needs to be. And that's where I think we're headed. That's where we're we've made a lot of progress. Because if you know, like take RIP, for example. right there are some differences in red you know it's heavier people are bigger all that kind of stuff but if you're good at search And you're good at truck work, then you're gonna probably be good at writ too.

Corley: Yeah, yeah. Chris Gilpin: Right? I love it. You can't you can't really be good at writ and not be able to do a damn search or a victim removal You know, so it all goes back to the basics, but why don't we give basic skills foundational attention Corley: Man, I'm a firm believer, first of all, that that risk the number one factor of risk mitigation is taking the basics off the table as a variable and making them just locked in and and golden. So when you ask me that, I would love to know why that isn't everybody's I I I I I think everybody thinks like me and that's one of my problems is everybody doesn't. So an answer to your question, I would I that to me is the number one way to mitigate risk. is to be so good at the basics that that those aren't even a factor and it opens up so much bandwidth for decision making. When the shit gets real and and things get hard and changing. But sorry There's so many people. I wanted to catch you up on the chat. They said timestamp. Boom. Solid gold. Might drop. There's a soundbite. Gilpin is is a crown emoji. RIT. That was what subs distracting me for a second. And Kurt Thomas says, skill level and tempo determines everything. You love to hear it. Stop timestamp that old girl. So sorry, I wanted to catch you up on that. But I don't even know if I answered your question you had for me Go ahead. Where were we at?

Chris Gilpin: I had so many well I don't know. All I've done is ask questions basically. Corley: It is, it's been good. and yeah, and I was gonna bring that up. That's the other thing I was gonna gonna say josh everett said he says his primo Rob says if you can't truck you can't writ you know Rob Ramirez's quote which I absolutely love that if you can't truck you can't writ. are you ready for some questions from the audience? Sure First one's coming at you from Sean Bailey. He wants to know, Chris, what insight can you offer on designing an annual training plan for a small department that is currently going through a hugely positive culture shift towards fire training? Chris Gilpin: Okay. well I know the colony has a good one and the chief will send it right out to you. It's got spring training, all that kind of stuff. It's that's that's kind of what what our training guy uses is our schedule. But I would say it all depends on your department. like so I'll I'll kind of put this in context. So I work at basically a probiofactory, right? We get new guy every year or a couple of times. a year. We start with basics in isolation. You know, the biggest things I tell them right out of the gate is you need to build a mask with gloves on. 20 seconds is my threshold, but I don't give them a it 20 seconds, it has to be less than 20 seconds, but at the same time My vision of it is we need to be the best we can be because you need to prepare and respond and operate as though you're going to your house tonight. to your wife, your family, your kids, stuff like that. And I think if we put things in context like that, there's really not a ceiling on it, right? Because if you think about it in those terms. How good how how good is good enough if you're going to your house?

Corley: No doubt about it, brother. Chris Gilpin: No doubt about it. So I definitely want to have there's expectations. but just because it's a twenty-second mascot, that's that's not the end of it right we need to be as good as we can but then we we start with basics and isolation and it's masking right masking with gloves That's one of them. I tell them you gotta be we have a hundred foot bundle that we basically leave in the bay. We don't even have to pull it off the truck. And all I want doing is deploying You know, accordion forward, V split, one that we call the old shit flip, basically like it just falls down, you find the coupling. It's kind of like the Gary Lane deployment Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: you know, and I want them doing that over and over and over again. forcible entry, we have a door there. Like you have to be able to do gap set force throwing ladders. Well, I'll get on a ladder tangent here in a second, but throwing ladders, searches you know understanding these things because let's be honest you're gonna have to do a search on every fire at least you should be you're gonna have to put water on every fire If you can't get in, it doesn't matter what else you do. We should be throwing ground ladders on every fire. And you have to mask up, right? So Basically what we do is we break it down to what do we absolutely have to be able to do on every fire and you start there. You do those in isolation until they're pretty locked in. Then you start combining them. Okay. Because one of the biggest deficits I see in, and I see it at Oath Keepers, I see it at all of the like when we teach Brothers in Battle Beyond the Pre-Connect, I see it there It's the tempo. Tempo is a problem. Because while some people can do skills in isolation, they can't do it flu in succession all the way through. Like rig to the seat of the fire. One of the biggest ones we see is calling for water. Like we go over it, we cover it, we train it, we do all that kind of stuff, but then people make a nice clean deployment. And they want to call for water and watch the water while they're waiting to mask up.

Chris Gilpin: Like kneel on that thing when you have a when you're pretty close to a clean stretch, call for water, mask up while it's filling, right? Right? Open the nozzle, let it bleed, do all that kind of stuff. But people miss that part of it. Like it's it's constant because let's think about how we do it. How often do we for drills do that all the way through? Corley: Right. Actually bask up at the point of deployment. No, no, absolutely. No, I love that. Chris Gilpin: Water coming and all that kind of stuff. so we build up to that. Right? Because you have to be able to do all these skills locked down in isolation before you can start combining them and then doing them in a tempo. I had my proby the other night came to me and it was, I don't know. 10 o'clock, 10 30 at night, something like that. And he pops in, you know, I'm doing reports and typical officer type stuff at 10 o'clock at night and he pops in there and he's like hey Lou can can we do some fire ground tempo drills out here At 10 o'clock at night. Corley: Yeah.

Chris Gilpin: I'm not gonna say no. Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: It's inconvenient because I got now we'd be doing reports at two o'clock in the morning. But I'm not gonna say no to this guy ever Right. so I walk out, dudes are in full gear, packs on, stretching off the truck, forcing doors, calling for water. masking up, they did it until almost one o'clock in the morning. Oh wow. You know, but I think I think because that the vision of hey, you may be, I want you to act as though you're going to your house tonight I think that resonates. So to answer his question, start with the basics, start with them in isolation. and then work up to your actually the tempo of going all the way through that skill set until you got water on the fire Corley: Love it, man. I love it. Great answer. Great answer to a great question. Thank you, Sean. And the Sam will post a link in the chat to Scott Thompson's website, which is fireservice leadership. com. You can download for free From Scott Thompson, his whole training manual and his mentorship program. All it costs you is giving him an email. You have to sign up with the email to get it, which I don't even think he bothers with, but he had to do that that way with the shop So download it, get it, because everything, not everything, but a lot of what Chris was talking about is in that training schedule that he has in there. And I think Chris Scott talks about the the basic five and the first five, you know, and it's and all that stuff that's in there and it's fantastic. So Great answer. Tommy Dixon coming at you says, can you give insight into your training program or version of or classes for your department when it comes to the driver, engineer, chauffeur, or whatever you call it program Beyond state search stuff, like what do you put your driver and stuff through? Is there anything special or anything you've developed that helps out with this whole operational tempo?

Chris Gilpin: Our drivers are pretty it it takes some of them like we have we have new guys that it two two and a half years. we expect a lot from our drivers. I've I've I mean we have we have big roads, we have narrow roads, we have hilly roads, we have all that kind of stuff. So they have to drive a lot But before they even, you know, they drive, they're pumping, like we have two-minute drills. You know, basically same same kind of process. They start very basic in isolation, like when we go out and flow water, we'll take we'll take the new guy that's training for it and he can pump that line while we're doing that You know, there's so many stands with them. we start slow, but you know, we expect drivers to Help with the stretch, right? We expect them to own basically everything from the rig to the door, right? if a ladder needs to be thrown, a lot of times they're gonna have to do it You know, we have certain equipment that's going to go to the door, whatever your department determines is that. But break it down in phases, you know, driving. pumping and and starting with just getting an initial line in service right and once they can do that then we get into you know relay pumping tandem pump and stuff like that. Then we supply aerials. I mean it it's pretty it's pretty in depth. But start break down what you want your drivers to do do, right? What do we expect of our drivers? And once you know what your expectations are, then you can break that down into the each skill, right? And then you work it into a skill set. But it's we're not a department that pushes people through driving super fast because it's an important job. And And you know, we think of it as it's not the old days where here comes your water and then they hang out and drink coffee.

Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: Like they have to be pretty experienced because, you know, they may be the one throwing the ladder. They may be helping with the stretch. as as the officer I'm gonna be inside as a company officer. So I expect, you know, like they're gonna have a general idea of accountability in the first five minutes. But to answer his question, figure out what you expect. What do you want your drivers to do? And then break it down into individual skills. And speak to each one of those and then put them all together. Corley: Love it. And a great again, great question, great answer. And I liked really the fact that the the driver knows all the skills that that are Expected of the people he's responsible for basically. And therefore he can step in and fill those gaps as needed. And and because he knows them, he can see them, those, those responsibilities that are needed and recogn recognition, I guess, is the word I'm looking for Chris Gilpin: Right. I mean drivers are, let's be honest, a a good driver that's proactive and understands what needs to happen. Like sometimes I'll even call out like, hey, what's the smoke look like? Because if he sees their steam conversion, I want to know that, you know. so I ex we expect a lot of them. Not everybody does, but a good driver is worth their weight in gold because they can are kind of like the wild card. Like they can they can pick up things we missed.

Corley: Jake J says, how do you teach a class with mixed experience slash knowledge levels? Any tips? Chris Gilpin: You start at the beginning. You have to assume everybody knows nothing, right? And Kyle's talked about this. We do it with probies. We do it with classes. You have to assume people know nothing, particularly if you're doing basics. So whatever class you're teaching, like if I teach forcible entry With Brothers in Battle, every time I teach forcible entry, the bar is the first thing I talk about. Because if they don't understand the way the bar works, you're pissing up a rope at that point. So start start with the whatever whatever skill you're teaching, start with the basics, assume they know nothing. You'll be able to see once you start doing evolutions Once you start doing reps, they may be up here, right? In which case you can speed that whole thing up. But I don't assume anybody knows anything Corley: Love it. There you go. All right, pulling back up the notes here. Everybody's loving it. I you'll have to go back and catch up. I don't know what the chat is actually at, but there is a ton of conversation going on. A lot of people walking and making comments or watching and making comments comments. But I want to talk about Probies, the future of the fire service, building and sustaining cultures of performance. And you've already touched on it a little bit with what you've already talked about, and especially with the story you just told of guys being out there asking to asking to to work on operational tempo at 10 o'clock at night and doing it till one in the morning. You're talking about a culture there. But how do you how do you develop that with young probies and the future of the fire service

Chris Gilpin: So this has been a this has been a learning process for me because in that 2008 time period when we had the economic crisis, right? Like we were looking at layoffs and all that kind of stuff, we didn't hire people for a number of years. so we went from having like an average age of like late 20s or something at or before that to the next time we started hiring people in any volume, like our average age was like 40, you know. so when we started getting 20-year-olds and 25-year-olds and stuff like that, it was like whoa, like they are way different than our generation. Corley: The sense of humor is weird. Chris Gilpin: Yeah. And It it was at first it was frustrating. but what I realized is, you know, I hear a lot of the fucking kids, you know, blah, blah, blah. But what I had to realize is like they are the future, right? So if my kids decide they're gonna be firefighters, these are the people who are going to train them. Right. Not gonna be me. I'm too old, right? I'll be gone. So if we don't if we don't figure out how to teach them, if we don't figure out how to engage them, then it's for nothing. I mean, I think maybe it's Aaron Fields that says the truth will be in your legacy, right? And if you can't communicate with them, it doesn't matter how much you know, if you can't pass that down, then then it's for not, you know. So the first what I found with the younger generation is one, they have access to more material than than any generation before them. Right.

Corley: Yeah. Chris Gilpin: If nobody they know you're full of shit by the time you're done talking because they're probably looking at their phone, Googling the shit. they require context. There has to be context. And this is something that I learned throughout the years teaching is like think about think about You tell a kid, let's say you're a baseball coach, right? Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: And you tell a kid, hey, you don't know how to throw a ball. Tell an eight-year-old you don't know how to throw a ball. Well, who probably taught him how to throw the ball? Corley: Yeah, if you you if it was if it wasn't his his dad or or whoever, but so the way you phrase things is important because I I would say this younger generation is more sensitive than we were Chris Gilpin: were right so if you tell them hey no no you're doing that all wrong that's stupid blah blah blah whoever taught them that And since they learned it, they probably thought at least somewhat highly of them. They immediately hear, my dad's an idiot, or my first lieutenant was an idiot. Speaker 4: Right. Chris Gilpin: Right. so giving context is to okay Okay, so this is why we don't do it that way, or this is why we do it this way. I think is very important with the younger generation. They like context, they like understanding. I think our generation is if if you don't have a lot of experience with them or you don't have patience with them, they don't necessarily like that because our generation was more do it because I said to do it. Right. this younger generation requires context. So you have to give context, you have to give understanding, and it has to be okay in their mind to think, oh, you know what? I was taught wrong because I didn't know this. So-and-so was an idiot. what was refra give me the original question.

Corley: Just probies in general. Probies in the future of the fire service. They are the future Chris Gilpin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they are the future. And and we tell like I tell them that. Like you guys are the future. This is going to be your fire department. so if you if you do a shitty job and you're not good at your job, everybody you train is gonna be shitty after that. This is gonna be your fire department. And I think when when you give them some ownership and some understanding of, hey, this is going to be on you, so pay attention, right? I think that that helps engage them quite a bit. And like I said, standards are standards. You know, I have expectations. There's no doubt about it. But ultimately, I I used to have a huge list of expectations when new people came to my career. It was like two pages. Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: You know, and and let's be honest, the vast majority of firefighters have ADD. That's why they're doing this Right. so by the time I'd get about halfway through my giant list of expectations, they're tuned out. Like they're they're somewhere else. Speaker 4: Right. Chris Gilpin: It's just the way it is. so I basically I shortened that You know, I there's some that I keep, but my the first thing I say to a proby that gets there day one is, hey, When you're here, you're gonna train and operate and respond as though you are going to your mom's house. And it's your brother that's trapped or it's your brother that's sick or whatever it is is. And that's where I want you to have your head. When you think, you know what, I don't feel like deploying this bundle again today. Would you do it if you knew you were going to a fire at your house at three o'clock this morning? That changes it. You know what I mean? That changes the bar of where I need to be. And they seem to grab onto that pretty well. Plus, I I I try to value them, you know Like I think a lot of their life they've been undervalued or told that you're just a kid, whatever it is You know, they have to stay in they have to stay in line and there's expectations and stuff like that, but they also have to know that you care about them.

Corley: Dude, I love it. Dude is gold. I'm sitting here timestamping. I'm trying to remember to write down notes on the timestamps. the audience, you better help me out because there's been too many And I've been listening as much as you have. Taylor Shepherd is coming at you with a question. Taylor wants to know. I'm trying to think of a good way to phrase it, but basically, I like it, I'll just ask the way he asked it. What's one class you've taken or that you teach you'd recommend to send a proby to to get them hooked into the job. Chris Gilpin: well I mean shameless plug Oathkeepers Fire Conference is gonna give you engine and truck in two days and more work than you want to do but other than that i would say diy engine is definitely one DIY engine I think is eye-opening for a lot of people because let's be honest, the vast majority of the American Fire Service, that's literally what you're dealing with. Two, three, four people showing up And way more stuff than you can pop possibly accomplish. You know, Gary likes to say it's a decision-making class, more than a skills class, and it is. But I think for young people, learning that, hey, this this these may be decisions I have to make, I think it's good. VES beyond the door, I would recommend before you get there, make sure you can throw a ground ladder. and and I was so I'll get back to this in just a second, but ground ladders in general. are a very weak point in the fire service. People are scared of them, right? Because they don't want to wear them like a necktie. So what if as humans, we don't do things we're uncomfortable with That's just the way it is.

Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: But a lot of these classes that I'm going to recommend you go to, like, you have to be able to throw a ground ladder. And I would say VS beyond the door because it's not a ground ladder class. Anybody that's ever taken it, you know, it's not a ground ladder class, but we use them a lot. Well, it's obvious it's not a ground ladder class because there's typically a few that are pretty good or they're really bang up at ground ladders. There's some that look like they've never seen them before. So any of these classes I'm talking about, there's you probably want to be working on basics before you get there, but they are good. Like the passion. Anybody that's ever been to one of Cody's classes There's no limit on passion with Cody Trustrail. We all know that, right? Corley: Right on. Chris Gilpin: So I think that gets people hooked. Let's see. I don't even know if gaining relative superiority is still around. GRS. Brush used to teach it. It's a good class. Yeah. Corley: No, I don't I I don't know if he's taught it in a while. Chris Gilpin: The the vast majority of classes that are at firemanship are I would recommend for anybody that's new. But there's so many small conferences now, and I think that's an outstanding thing. Like just start taking some of those classes. I don't recommend a new guy, you know, and I'll probably get in trouble for this, but I don't recommend a new guy holding out hope that they're going to go to FDIC. Because it's expensive. It's expensive and there's a lot of people there and you don't have a lot of time. So go to one of your local you know, homegrown conferences where people are passionate, the vast majority of those, people aren't getting those instructors aren't getting paid. They're there because they care. And they want to pass on their passion and they want to pass on the craft and all that kind of stuff. So find yourself a local conference and just start doing it. And the more you do it, the more you'll hear about it. You'll meet people. And go to as many as you can.

Corley: I love it, dude. I love the answers. absolutely. And and Taylor Shepard said, thank you so much for the thorough answer, boss man. So absolutely. Kurt Thomas says what do you think are some of the best ways or tactics to get buy-in on a new idea from dudes who have been in the job for a while, as well as new people, specifically if the idea is data-driven? So best way to introduce new data-driven techniques to old dogs or or new dogs. Million dollar question, brother. So go ahead. Chris Gilpin: That is well that that's the million dollar question right there. You know, data driven is only as good as people will give the data credit for. You know, I mean data is there. All the data is out there. But if people don't want to hear it, they don't want to believe it because it makes them uncomfortable Speaker 4: then they're not going to hear it. Chris Gilpin: So I mean I can say like the data is the data. And I'm a true believer. Like You know, hey, teaching in your own department is the hardest place you're ever gonna teach. Everybody knows that, right? But for me, content is king. Flat out. So if you have good content And you're using data and you're using facts, then it is what it is. Like you can go look this up if you want. Like, you don't believe what I'm saying about these rescue statistics? Go to Firefighter Rescue Survey and look at it. It's there. I think the data seems to be more effective with the less experienced younger people than it is with the older people.

Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: and I and I think that's partially because change in data is uncomfortable, right? If you've been doing something a certain way for 20 years And you feel like it works good enough, you're not really open to it. And again, when you get into the psychological aspect of that, when you tell someone that, you know, they have they've been doing this for 20 years the same way. Right. You tell them no no no, that's wrong. We're not gonna do that. What they hear is I've been doing this wrong for twenty years. Corley: Twenty years. Yeah, my entire career I've been doing this wrong. Chris Gilpin: This guy's full of shit Right. So they immediately shut down. So I I feel like a better way to do that is say, all right, so we've always done it this way. This is why we should probably look into looking at doing it. different way like it that kind of disarms them psychologically to think okay well maybe I just didn't have the information that I needed. But if you say no it that's wrong. We're not doing it that way. That's stupid, they're immediately gonna be Putting up defenses. Corley: No, and there's the my bias and also how many times we get accidentally lucky all the time and and accidentally good on fires all the time. And it has nothing to do with proper technique or application or anything. And that reinforces that well I've been doing it this way for 20 years and it's never bit me in the ass. So why would I change now?

Chris Gilpin: Right. So you know another one of the other things I I really like I'm a guy I don't I never say I can't. I just I don't believe in the words. Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: I think it was I think I was in boot camp when I went in the Navy and they said basically there was a dude that said I can't and he said no you can't You mean you won't? So it was it was pretty quick and pretty painful that immediately like those words were taken out of my mouth Like I can't. But what I see in the fire services a lot is is we we tell people what we can't do instead of showing them what they're capable of right in my mind it's a lot easier to show people what they're capable of what we actually can do then they're gonna you know they're gonna kind of know like That's that's too much. I can't do that, whatever it is, because they know what they're capable of. But if you tell them we can't do that, and they never try, like you never show them That seems premature to me, right? So like we have one of our scenarios at Oath Keepers is basically you you got to force a door, you stretch, you force a door, you flow and move up the stairs You turn, you flow and move down a hallway, you flow and move down another hallway, you make another turn fire. I'm talking you're flowing and moving upstairs And the the whole push is probably 150 feet. Like you are you are likely never going to have to do that in your entire career. Right. No. But the idea behind it is one, they get a lot of reps. get a lot of nozzle time that way in a training environment. And two, it shows them what they're capable of.

Corley: Capability. Yeah. Chris Gilpin: it also, we tell them like, hey, switch out. Like if you get tired, have the backup man come up here and take the nozzle. And you switch. So it teaches people to communicate. But you know, I've had people that oh I'm never gonna have to do 150-foot push. No, you're probably not, but in a training environment, it shows you That you can make a push upstairs and 150 feet. And so that 20-foot push down the hallway should be no problem going forward. Yeah Right. so I think it's a lot about showing people what they can do and stop telling them what they can't. Corley: I like I like McGinn. McGinn said, wait, you can give up the nozzle? He said nonsense. So Chris Gilpin: I didn't say I recommend it. Corley: Right. Successfully weathering a career on the job. You got 20, you said 26? Chris Gilpin: Yeah. Corley: Yep. What's your tips? Give everybody wants the tips. How do you how do you survive and weather a long career? Especially because let's be honest, you're probably as plugged in as you've ever been right now And that's that's that's an exception for a 26-year veteran. So talk to especially a lieutenant position.

Chris Gilpin: I'm I'm in one of the like in my career, so I had during our that economic down Term. We weren't hiring anybody. We cut staffing. I had two little kids at home, almost melted my crew to the floor. I went through a pretty dark time. Like I hated everything and every And it was mostly because, you know, we have we have a new fire chief, we have new administration now. It's it's great. or they're in a training, they they're they're awesome. we we had some problems. We had a lot of labor struggles, stuff like that when we were, I mean, because when there's no money, there's real problems, right? Corley: Right. Chris Gilpin: And what I found was I spent probably two, three, four years obsessing about things that I couldn't control, right? And and I think that that's where you get toxic. When you're spending all your time worrying about what someone else is doing or worrying about things you know, that you can't control your staffing or whatever it is, like things that are all above your level, and you're not worrying about yourself, that's where things go off the rails I mean I was I have marrow problems, I was drinking a lot, like you know, it it's and and I would say anybody that does this job, especially if they work at a pretty busy department, you're going to have problems throughout it 25, 26 year career. It's going to happen. but you know, one day I basically I woke up and I was like, you know, all this noise, because that's what it was, it was noise, you know, shit that I couldn't control. All this noise had basically, I'd let it it it had stolen my love for the job, right? It put me in a bad position personally. I mean, it's just like I had to look at it and say, you know what? I'm going to get back to the reason I love this job in the first place. And that is worrying about the things that I can control. Me and my crew. That's what I can control. And the the culture and the attitude and the tempo there. And I I had to say, look, I I'm not worried about what other people are doing because I can't. So I think I think if if you're having trouble and you're really because I I know man there's a lot of fire departments out there that have lots of problems But let's be honest, firefighters, lieutenants, captains, you can't control everything.

Chris Gilpin: And if you start getting toxic and you start feeling like And you hate everything, you gotta circle the wagons and sit back and evaluate like what what can I can I control any of this that I'm worried about Right? Because at the end of the day, the only thing like if you're a firefighter, the only thing you can really, really, really control is you. And I think you have to focus there because if you can't take care of yourself and you can't bring yourself to work with a good attitude and love of the job, then you're not going to be able to make anybody else do it. And I'm sure Corley, you've been an officer for a long time. I'm sure you've seen all of this, right? Corley: Oh, peaks and valleys of my own, my own making and my own, you know, absolutely. Losing sight of it. And yeah, no doubt about it, brother. And I will say, almost all the times of of the valleys versus the peaks, and there's been both, you know what I'm saying? the valleys were c were self-inflicted when I lost sight of my sphere of control and started getting out there in that sphere of concern. You know, if you want to reference like Covey 7 habits or whatever. Whatever. And but no, absolutely, but I love, love, love the answer for focus on what you can control. What's in your sphere?

Chris Gilpin: And the other thing is get out of your own fire department, right? Because there are a lot of people out there that are really, really passionate And you'll find out if you go to these different trainings, especially these small conferences, you're going to find more like-minded people than not like-minded people. You're going to find out you're not alone Right. So the other thing is it it expands your horizons flat out. So I recommend controlling what you can control and have some variety. Corley: Yeah. And if you're not getting oxygen in your own department, always talk about a vent your vent limited as a fight. You can't burn with that passion. You gotta find that you gotta find that oxygen. And that'll come from those conferences and those like-minded souls okay. I love it, man. I love everything we've talked about, but I do want to talk about books. I'm passionate about books, and I want to ask you about book or books that you think firefighters should be reading Chris Gilpin: there's a there's a lot of them. I won't I don't consider myself a huge reader. Well, I don't read lots and lots of books, but I read everything You know what I mean? Like I read everything on social media. I read like I read all kinds of stuff. but as far as books for a firefighter, like Book of Andy, I think is that That's an essential, right?

Corley: Oh yeah. Chris Gilpin: the book of search, even though I haven't read it yet, I'm looking forward to it. I'm a fan. Corley: I am a fan. Chris Gilpin: On combat. Corley: Yes, Grossman. Chris Gilpin: Grossman. So that's another thing that that I really want to hit on because I see this a lot. I see it at Oath Keepers, I see it at BIB classes, I see it all over the place. I saw it when I was a student. You can have some people that are locked down on skills. And as soon as you put some pressure on them, they fall apart. They turn into a bull in a china shop. And it's simply because they have no understanding of what's happening to them in the first place. They can't even identify it. You know, I tell people like if you're doing something, if you're in a scenario, if you're in a fire, whatever it is. And you can't remember what you've done the last 10 seconds, you probably need to take a breath. Give yourself a little box breathing. Corley: You know what I mean Chris Gilpin: my wife is like number one victim at Oath Keepers and she does it for Brothers in Battle and stuff. And I'll tell you what, these dudes like during the skill stations, they look locked down But as soon as you put pressure on them and you put some smoke in there, she likes to get killed sometimes. I'm sure Andrea knows like it's because They do things that like we didn't do this all day, all weekend. Like we didn't do that one time. And then as soon as you put pressure on them, like boom. Like, where did that come from? so I think on combat's great because it gives you a an insight as to what happens to your body physiologically. where you need to be, how you need to maintain that, realization that it's happening, right, and some techniques to kind of keep yourself together because if you can't keep yourself together it doesn't matter how good your skills are so you have to understand like like for me like every time I cross a threshold life fire layout but Because that's my reset. You know, not only does it give me the opportunity to be at the floor, and if I can see across the room, all the way across that floor, and I see there's a couch over there that I can't see the top of I I just cleared that whole floor on the way to that couch, right?

Chris Gilpin: I don't have to go I don't have to go crawl around that area. I go boom to the couch, right? but if I don't do that live fire layout, I'm up in the smoke the entire time, right? My heart rate's up. but by me doing that live fire layout, not only does it aid What I'm doing, it aids my progress, but it also gives me a second to take a breath, right? And it keeps me it keeps me smooth. I want to be smooth. I don't I see particularly the young, like if they're young and strong and fast, I see it with with dudes that were football players and linebackers and shit like that. It's all rage. It's all gas, right? And and I was like that But you miss a lot of shit. I tell everybody in all these classes, like I'm 49 years old, man. I'm too old to do things six times. I want to do it right the first time. And you do that by being smooth and keeping yourself under control So on combat, I would recommend it to anyone. Corley: Beautiful, beautiful. I love the books, brother. Absolutely love the books.

Chris Gilpin: I do want to talk about the book of search real quick. Corley: Okay. Chris Gilpin: So tell me about that. Like from my understanding that's a collaboration fire nuggets you proceeds go to firefighter rescue survey, right? Corley: 100% and well it's free. First of all, it's free. The PDF everybody can download But if you if you want to buy the hardback, the collectors, the whatever you want to call it, the the first grab edition specifically, all the proceeds from the sale of the book on Amazon. Go to Firefighter Rescue Survey. And as of today, over $56,000 has been raised for them, which is like Yeah, fantastic. The American Fire Service has come out in spades to support it. But yes, 100% a collaborative effort between there was 46 authors. 43 or no 43 authors, 46 different articles, all on the topic of search, related to it in some way, shape, or form. You know, Andy Starnes wrote on it. He wrote on thermal imaging tips for the search you know I I I I would I don't even want to start like Ian Bennett he's more of an engine guy in Life Fire you know what I'm saying but he wrote about live fire tips for search training and how to apply those concepts And so it's just everything is is all these different angles of looking at the mindset, preparation, decisions, and action of search. And that's the four sections. So super collaborative effort. turned out way better than the sum of its parts and way better than the original envisionment. And Paul Combs made the cover. You know, he volunteered his artwork for the cover. Amber Christian did the interior illustrations. Three separate photographers Chris Mead out of California, Samantha Worthy who goes around to a lot of the Brothers in Battle stuff taking pictures and of course Gillian Stewart all donated their their ph photographer catalogs to to be the illustrations in the book. So anyway, yeah, don't get me talking about it. I'll waste all your scrap time talking about it. So very, very proud of how it turned out. And it and it it's been the American Fire Service has absolutely showed up. in I just just killing it with it. I can't track how many times it's been shared, you know, but downloaded from the website it It hit sixty five hundred downloads as a PDF today.

Corley: And that does not include, you know, Kyle put it on Engine Company Resurrection. Who knows how many thousands of downloads it got from there and all the other places it's been posted and shared so i imagine it's in the tens of thousands of of firefighters hands the pdf and free print it share it together man the guy the people who donated man i cannot ever say thank you enough the book of search has been an amazing fire service victory. So thank you for bringing it up, but you didn't, but yeah, I'm very proud of it. Chris Gilpin: Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. Corley: I'm done. All right. That takes us to the five questions for firefighters. One of my favorite parts of the scrap. And it's been around basically since the beginning, almost since the very beginning There are no right or wrong answers. The questions are there it's 100% arbitrary with There are no right or wrong answers. The points are arbitrary assigned by me with the help of the studio audience. So the main question is, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Chris Gilpin: Let's light this candle. Corley: All right Number one. Let me see if I got this right. Let me get it right here. I will get it right. Number one. What is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career?

Chris Gilpin: I don't I don't know that it's a skill necessarily, but it's a tri it and I would say it's grit. Plat out. I mean the definition of grit is courage and resolve and strength of character. So You know, I tell people get comfortable being uncomfortable if you really want to be good at this. And I think that takes grit, like to look at yourself and say, man, I I suck at that. I gotta get better. so I would say if you have grit toughness you there's you you'll keep plugging no matter what. Corley: Hmm. No, I love the way you tied and and I love the definition of grit. Courage, plu and resolve and strength of character. But you also actually tied humility into that to realize that you have to you have to get better. And I love that, man. I absolutely love that Steve Mauch said it best. Easy first, max points. So out the gate, love grit, good answer. Max points on number one. Number two, it's Job Town. It's time. You're in route and responding. Think of the scene from backdraft, of course, or he's slapping that cassette into that cassette deck as they're in route to that job. What is the song that you are playing while in route

Chris Gilpin: Yeah, when I saw this question, my initial thought was like bro him by Pennywise or something. But you know what? I I think that's I love it, but I think it's more of a ZZ top, Lagrange. kind of cool. Good little beat, but Keep me just where I want to be. Corley: I love it. Oh okay. I'll try not to sing Z Z Top right here live. But I will give it absolute max points on the Z Z Top coming in. Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition? Chris Gilpin: it's one that I saw a few years ago. And I don't remember who has it. They're not the only ones, but I like the departments that have black inside and bottoms on all of their lids, regardless of whether it's Red helmet, yellow helmet. Well, I guess what I'll say is whatever their firefighter color of their lid is, so let's say it's black Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. Chris Gilpin: the red, let's say you're captain, lieutenant, whatever, you have a red helmet, but the bottom brim and the inside is black. Corley: Ah. Chris Gilpin: Chiefs are the same way, like white helmet, but black on the underneath. Right. and 'cause I saw one and I said, what's what's this? And they said, Well, you always gotta remember that you're a firefighter first.

Corley: I love that. It's like a Marine, I was always a rifleman first. Chris Gilpin: I think that's a cool tradition. Corley: Dude, I love the mindset behind that. Just the just the mental reminder. Absolutely. I've never heard that one before, too. So love it. Max points, three for three, easy max points. Yeah, everybody I'm seeing if the gr if anybody disagrees. Someone said does anybody want to take the under on him getting max points on all these? And no one took it. But number four, this one is on the clock. This is the unfair question, so we had to put a clock on it Because we had a problem where people would just answer for 30 minutes as they talked about all the people they wanted to mention. So you get one minute to answer. Who are the four people that you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service? Chris Gilpin: So for mine, a couple of them nobody'll ever nobody's ever heard of. My number one would be my father-in-law, Ricky. Easter he passed away from leukemia a few years ago, but he was I was on his crew when I very first started. And He the biggest thing he did for me was when I got out of the Navy, like I I basically became a firefighter because I wanted to I wanted excitement. Like I wanted to do stuff. You know what I mean? I can't say that I really, really deeply cared about people. and he taught me how to personalize it and like put myself in their shoes and look at it, you know, like like I said today, like thinking about like act like you're going to your house So he taught me how to care. My second one would be Mark Wilhelm. He was one of my first captains. He retired from Cincinnati Fire Department. I got one second left.

Corley: You can finish up. so Operational tempo. Chris Gilpin: He was he he he retired from Cincinnati, taught me how to be a company officer and really how to be a firefighter but he came up through his 60s 70s 80s stuff like that right on my my last two are pretty quick cody trust trail always been a huge mentor his passion and the things he does for the fire service are pretty much unmatched. and I would have to say Kyle, because Kyle with Engine Company Resurrection, like Kyle is a dude that there is absolutely nothing off. limits when he says he's an open book he will give you anything he has and and i think he's he's improved the fire service greatly by his his willingness to share and look Learn and be humble and give everything he has. Corley: Unbelievable. Rick Easter, Wilhelm, Cody Testrel, Kyle Romagus, a heck of a Mount Rushmore. And that takes us to question number five, the question that's been around forever. Would you rather be assigned? It's heavy fire. I gotta I gotta qualify. Heavy fire and searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES?

Chris Gilpin: That's such a tough question. And everybody thinks, oh, Gilbin's an engine guy. Like I spent a lot of years on a ladder truck. What I'm pretty sure this answer won't count, but I want the one that really fucking needs to be done. But I would have to say in that situation, heavy fire, like first due, I want to make the put Corley: Okay. No, I like it. I like the answer. I'm second due. Chris Gilpin: I don't I don't even I don't want anything to do with a backup line or anything like that. I want to make the Corley: No, and I and your and your first answer, I get it, that's everybody. I mean, whichever ones needed the most, absolutely, man. So but but no, I I like your answer. Max points on number five for make the push on heavy space. My my personal answer was always VES, always VES. And then someone on Twitter back when it was Twitter posted a picture and said, What about on this one? And it was just this rocking house fire with like this one window off to the side that was very, very searchable. And but the the fire and everything on the front was just rocking and rolling. I'm like, man, that would be a tough one to pass up the nozzle on because it's just getting it on.

Chris Gilpin: Well in the way I look at that kind of is if there's survivable space in there, if you have a shit engine company, a shit push, oh yeah. It ain't gonna be survivable much longer. Corley: Right on. Chris Gilpin: So if you have a lockdown engine company, a lockdown Nozzman, and you you can make that survival space a lot better for a lot longer Corley: Absolutely. And makes all the difference in what's there. And and everything's to support the search. So absolutely, brother. And that officially max points on number five, easy max points on number five. That officially puts The five questions for firefighters in the books. And that officially puts scrap number 277 in the books. My brother Chris Gilpin, thank you for being with us and sharing your passion and your evening with us If someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so? Chris Gilpin: any any of the social medias I'm on there. I would say call me, but I don't answer my phone. phone most of the time. So he's honest. My buddy Adam Dressler will be like, dude, dude, I called you the other day. I'm sure you just looked at it ring. I mean, but you can email me. see gopen374 at gmail. com social media.

Corley: And probably the most important question like everybody wants to answer to what's the secret to to getting an oathkeepers ticket before it sells out in those first six minutes Chris Gilpin: You got every shit together. We want high achievers there. Corley: No doubt about it. No doubt about it. All right. That's it, man. Thank you so much this evening. We did the housekeeping. vigilante. If you're not a vigilante, I always ask, why are you not a vigilante? They are the cool kids. They are like-minded souls, man. If you need oxygen, get with the vigilantes. They have discussions every day in the Discord. They reach out, they support each other. It's an amazing amazing time. In fact, at the end of the show, we invite the guest always to come in for the after party where we roast the guest and it's always a good roast. And if you know you know, so if you're looking, go go to firehousevigilance. com, become a vigilante, patreon. com. it's it's fun that's enough of that. whatever else I got coming up next week. This is really cool because Chris talked about him today. Here's the deal. Chris Slayer was the guest for next week. But because of Christmas and family obligations, Chris had to reschedule so chris is going to be rescheduled which opened up next monday and then by complete happenstance i was reaching out for a whole other reason aaron fields says hey i'm free on monday so yes i will do it So Aaron Fields, who I've been trying to get back on for so long, is coming on next Monday unplanned. so that's unplanned and very surprising. But one of my absolute favorite people, when you talk about the class drilling for function and talking about skill acquisition. Aaron Fields is one of my favorite people. I could just listen. In fact, I will just sit and listen to him talk next week. So all that being said, get excited. After that, you've got I I'm like looking for my notes, and I'm like, no wonder. But right after that, you've got David Griffin and then closing out the year, Chief Rick Lasky. So the scrap is going to go and close 2024 in style. And I'm absolutely excited about it. Once again last YouTube message. Austin and Adam, please remind him on a regular basis of the skills he needs to work on.

Corley: Oh, the kiddos, I'm guessing. Gotcha. That's the row that's officially the row starting All right. I'm getting there. Okay, here we go. Yeah, David Griffin, Rick Lassiff. All right, enough jabbering. Audience, thank you for being here. Chris, thank you for being here. Audience, thank you for your questions. You absolutely Make the scrap magical each and every week. I love you all. Thank you for showing up and making the live show what it is. Chris, thank you once again for sharing your evening with this audience. The scrap would not exist without you. I appreciate you for tuning in. Remember Mutt's don't scrap. Speaker 4: I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there.