Weekly Scrap #234 - David Rhodes, Editor in Chief

Corley: Corley Moore. Talking to you for a few short minutes while we're waiting for the scrap to begin. The scrap will be starting here in just a few minutes. And I'm going to talk to you while everybody's logging in. I'm going to talk to you about becoming a vigilante If you are not a vigilante, why not? It is a collection of the coolest cats from across the world, firefighters from around the world getting together in a group and supporting each other. It's an amazing group to be a part of. Every Day people are posting their questions, their problems, their advice. It is powerful to belong to. One of the best collections of people, and you can be a part of it. We got stuff like the the swag. The swag is awesome. Don't get me wrong. The swag is awesome. That's not what it's about, but you got vigilante-only swag, like the custom bookmarks made by Taylor's Tins. For the vigilantes. You got stuff like the the blacked out, vigilante hats and the vigilante shirts, all available in the exclusive vigilante only shop, which All of that stuff is sold not I don't want to say at no markup, but like at the lowest possible price you can basically sell it for. And so And it's not even about the swag, although that's just that's just the awesome part of it. We do forums. Is some of the best, most gifted subject matter experts coming in and they have conversations. It's like a scrap. Think of the scrap, but you're in it also in the call, able to ask and have conversations and talk. It's a it's an amazing time. We do I've got the fourth episode of the Fire Away. Fire Away coming up this month. And in a fire away I go live and just field questions. People post questions, field questions, and we answer and discuss those questions. From firefighters across the world. It's a good time. The fireways, the forums. It's an amazing time. Not to mention, the every time there's a conference and vigilantes get together, we we have a vigilante meetup. We're we're forming We're in the process of forming traditions that are gonna that are gonna make and how those how those happen and what it means when you hate when you get like your vigilante coin, which is also another thing that's pretty pretty freaking cool, is the vigilante coin, the blackout coin.

Corley: They're numbered, they're exclusive, and we're figuring out how that's gonna work out when we get together in person and we have and we we're supposed to recite the creed. We do this for others. Push, train, learn, master ourselves. Never easy. Never quit. Man, if you're not a member of the Vigilantees, I'm just asking you, why not? I wanted to talk to you for a few minutes while the scrap is about to start. You can go to firehousevigilance. com. Five bucks a month. You are a member of the vigilantes. You can also sign up for a year if you prefer that over the subscription. FirehouseVigilance. com. Become a member today, man. You will not regret it. The scrap will be starting soon. Thanks for listening to me I love it. I just gotta find the right window. There it is. Colymore. Firehouse Vigilance Weekly Scrap number 234. You could not take it down to the wire any closer. My guest this evening is Chief David Rhodes. He is a 30, I'm gonna guess, 39-year fire service veteran and retired from the Atlanta Fire Department. He is a chief elder for the Georgia Smoke Diver program, formerly known as Smoke Daddy. if you want to talk FDIC, fire engineering, where he is the editor in chief. He is passionate. He loves to teach. He loves to speak. He loves to spread his passion. He is unapologetic. In everything he puts his mind to. Man, I could there's there's so much you could say about this, but I'm just going to get to the show because that's what everybody is excited about. The man's pedigree is unbelievable, and most importantly So many people that I respect and look up to speak about this man with reverence and respect, which is the greatest resume I think anyone can have. Chief David Rhodes, it is my absolute pleasure to have you back on as the guest For weekly scrap number 234. Welcome, my brother.

Chief David Rhodes: What's happening? Good to be back. We're scrapping. Corley: We are scrapping. Everybody, we are dropping frames. So I need to know, I need you to tell me in the chat how it is looking If it's freezing, but if you can hear us or if it's just freezing and you can't hear us, I just we just need a quality control feedback. Let me know And I will read some comments that have already been coming in as as everybody gives me the feedback. Ed Berg already launched it and said, over under on this breaking quarterly's internet tonight with a laughy face. Let's go from Michael Zari. So stoked for tonight from Eddie Ivy checking in from Montana. Here we go from Linton Fire Department. Joe Gavita said max points already. Let's go. I love it. Steve Mauch said, unapologetically, checking in from Northeast Ohio, LFG. This will be epic from Josh Weiss. Checking, checking. Okay, everybody's saying loud and clear, loud and clear, can hear good, can hear you, but freezing here and there from Terra Cornet. Thank you, Flame. Sounds good, video a little choppy. Okay, good. That's what I needed to hear. I can handle choppy. You guys can put up with us freezing with some weird faces every once in a while. As long as you can hear us, that's the main thing choppy but good sound. Okay, hopefully it clears up. We'll see how it goes. Freezing, but audio is good. Thank you for the feedback. All right, Chief David Rhodes. Is there anything I missed in the intro? Anything you would like to add?

Chief David Rhodes: They could be the two faces made for radio the screwing up the stream. Corley: There is no doubt about it Anything, but is there anything you would like to add? Anything I left out in the in the intro? Chief David Rhodes: No, man, I think you covered it very very well, very eloquently. Thank you very much. Corley: Audience, please get your questions ready for Chief David Rhodes and myself throw them at us. Clyde Kyle is in the Chats, he is looking for your questions. He will be throwing them up on my laptop here so I can grab them and throw them at you. We're gonna have some fun tonight. So let's get to the beautiful sponsors And so we can get to the scrap. Of course, everybody knows I love Keyhose, the OG sponsor of the scrap, Keyhos. All right. I love it. Chief David Rhodes: We're gonna break the 34,000. Corley: I do, brother. I'm so excited. I am so excited. I mean, I'm telling you. Chief David Rhodes: In the words of Eric Church, I think it'll be a record year. Corley: It's gonna be. Chief David Rhodes: Having a record year. Corley: Having a record year. Dan, there's so many questions. I already love it. Okay, Kyle's already Okay, thank you, Kyle. Kyle is on top of it because I'm scrolling through the chat right now, looking at questions coming from people that I love and respect already. And so let's kick it off. We're done with the sponsors. We're done with the intros. We're here. People are going. And 100%, let's just let's go with a soft toss out the gate You've got one year and some change under your belt as the editor in chief. What's your first year been like?

Chief David Rhodes: very busy. busier than I ever thought it would be, for sure. There's there's way more to it than meets the eye. everybody thinks, okay, write the editorial and then obviously, you know Most people know about picking the classes for FDIC and all that, but we've got numerous brands that require a lot of attention and And I'm involved in some regard in pretty much all of them. So it's nonstop. It's several hundred emails a day, several dozen phone calls and and just balancing it out, you know, just trying to make sure that you can get the stuff done. and develop plans for tackling the things that you don't have time to get to but are important. And we've we've onboarded a few new people over the over the last last year and got some got some really good help and got a few more coming. So it's an exciting time. It's a real exciting time for us. Corley: Love it. I absolutely love it. is it, I mean, is it what you I know you had a little prep time, but then it came off that then you were thrust into the pilot seat. Yeah. So is it what you expected?

Chief David Rhodes: it's it's more than what I expected as far as just the sheer volume workload, like the the grind part of it. Corley: everybody sees, you know, the FDIC speech. Chief David Rhodes: They read the editorials and and that. But fortunate enough to be able to work from home. So coming, you know, coming from the official fire engineering bunker right outside of the two time national championship, Georgia Bulldog, outside of Athens, Georgia. It's top secret location, but we're here and so that helps in that I commute from upstairs to downstairs, but it also I guess it's easy to get sucked into a 10 hour day, you know, because you're here and the the phone's constantly going off, you know, with the email ding, you know, and you know it's there and you can't help but look at it. Right, right. So I do have to you know, I've it's the first time I've ever just had one job. but the job itself has about 10 different components to it. So we've got the books, you know, we've got the books division, we've got firefighter nation, we've got the websites, we've got the Fire engineering training, formerly known as the Fire Academy. and there's just something going on all the time. You know, we've got the EMS, the gyms. We've got fire apparatus and equipment. And so just the just the collaboration part of it and making sure that everybody's communicating. Takes up quite a bit of time. And then you've got your meetings and your planning and you know, paying the bills and all that kind of stuff. So we've we've launched some some some cool stuff with like webcasts. So we we've done a a content alignment across the websites and the in the print magazine. So you see like there's always been a monthly theme, but now they're the same across all brands and we feature a webcast, sort of an editorial pick. webcast every month and those are going great. We've probably doubled our webcast. and and those are really awesome because You know, it's like sitting there attending a class at FDIC. You know, the the person's pulling up their slides and they're giving you a talk, but then you get to ask questions just like in in this format, and it looks pretty much just like this. So Try to keep 'em to about forty five minutes, but we've got those scheduled out all all the way up through like May, May and June right now.

Chief David Rhodes: So A lot of good recognizable heavy hitters that you'll see coming up on those on those webcasts. Podcasts have grown. I think we're up to about 26 a month. with our regular host. So they're doing great. We've gotten, we're on video now with us. So we've gone from the old fire engineering radio to a complete video platform. And those are all archived, so those are doing well. We're getting ready to launch to launch a couple of podcasts on Firefighter Nation. and we're we're in the process. Of totally rebranding Firefighter Nation to a health, wellness, lifestyle platform. Right now it's pretty much all news with a few features, but we started this month. we've taken it up to like eight features and got some new some new young faces coming in on that end. You may have seen Blake Stannett did an article from next wrong and we've asked a lot of people to contribute to that and it's it's going well. So it's it's growing It's growing. We're really listening. We've sent out a lot of surveys to find out what people want, if there's anything we're missing, and we're trying to hit the hit the mark on all of them. No, no, the feedback is amazing.

Corley: The outreach is amazing. And then the response has been a really, really cool collaborative to see it taking shape. Are you ready for your first question from the audience? Chief David Rhodes: Let's do it. Corley: I'm trying to think if I want to throw it to Dina's question or or I want to kick let's stay on topic for one second, then I'll throw it to the audience. So I want to say what has been the most difficult part? Because I want to stay on topic for just a second and ask that. What's been the most difficult part? Chief David Rhodes: The difficult part is just the sheer volume. And I know that people have probably emailed me or left me a message and I have forgotten or not gotten back to them and that that drives me crazy, you know, and sometimes I'll be scrolling through text and I'm like How did I miss these six texts like two months ago? And they're still they're still like bold. Yes. You know? And I'm like Oh man, then I'm like, hey, I'm sorry. Corley: Yeah, you're doing small thing. Chief David Rhodes: I'm sorry to be able to do that. Yeah, everybody's like, everybody says, Oh man, I've been so busy, but like literally, there's so much volume that I do miss stuff. So I always tell folks like if if you've sent me something and hadn't got a response, like send it again. So it goes to the top of the

Corley: Top of the box. Get back to the top of the box. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. Yeah. Because it's it's not intentional. If somebody's like, I don't know why you won't call me back. He must be mad at me or whatever. It's like, right. No. It's because I either didn't see it or I slept since then and forgot about it. Corley: And no, the the it's hard to comprehend the volume once until you experience. And I'm not even saying like I know. I'm just saying the little bit that I experience in the in the The sheer number of, hey Chief, let me ask you this question. What's your advice on this? You know, those those emails come in every day. And I want to try and give them the attention they deserve, but they're com, it gets to a point where It's not possible. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. Corley: And it's still it's just me. Chief David Rhodes: It's just me. And it's like it's I mean we've got a great staff that does the copy editing. Obviously, everybody knows Diane is is on top of all the magazine. but as far as like, you know, there's no personal assistant, there's no secretary, there's no admin assistant, there's nobody screening emails, it's it's me. So those couple hundred of email emails a day are being processed by me while I'm trying to figure out what we're gonna put in the magazine and

Corley: you know, what I'm doing next. Chief David Rhodes: No, I've dude, I can only imagine it's a balancing act for sure. Corley: The amount that's in the cauldron just boiling at at at any moment. Chief David Rhodes: I mean I love it. I it's It's exciting, but it's definitely made me like you know when Saturday rolls around and and I'm officially like supposed to be off, like I have to force myself not to answer an email or whatever. I'll be like, I can get that money. Sometimes I may flag it so it'll, you know, I'll forget, but But it's a it's a balancing act, but I'm enjoying it and I'm glad I'm extremely glad to have the opportunity to try to you know, make a difference with this platform. Corley: That's what I love the most to hear you say is that I you enjoy it because the morale I think is is probably the key aspect that guarantees that the quality of what you are doing, the effectiveness of what you're doing is going to stay at a high level. Yep. I love it. All right. I will get to Dina's question now. This was the first one coming out. Chief David Rhodes: She wants to know when her book's gonna be ready. I already know that question.

Corley: Well, if you have an answer for that, I'm sure she'd want to hear it. But she did not throw it at you live. But what I need to know as he prepared for his FDIC 2023 speech about poor leadership. How was he able to be so authentic with his ability to relate to minorities? That is such a rare quality for men like him. And I greatly appreciate the way he mentioned nobody has a monopoly on suffering. We all have obstacles. Chief David Rhodes: because I've seen it firsthand and lived it. obviously I didn't experience it. as a as a minority, but I was with various groups and and you know had relationships in all types of groups and I saw, you know, the same same treatments happening in in different groups. And and sometimes there's there's obviously different issues with with with different groups. But The the main point I wanted to make is that people getting treated like crap happens all across the board. And it's not always it's not always because you're a minority or an underrepresented group. It's sometimes just because it's shitty leadership. And I didn't say city leadership. Corley: I said shitty. Yes. Chief David Rhodes: Very clear. Let's be clear. Yeah. So So yeah, I mean I I I saw I had friends that experienced it and I just wanted to make that point because I think there's a lot of deflection in Obviously, there's a ton of emphasis being put on mental health and and that's been a a huge piece of the fire service conversation for. At least five years, maybe longer, but like really big the last five years, I think. And what I saw was like the institutions, the fire departments themselves put all their emphasis on Oh, our people run bad calls and it's so bad for 'em, and we've got to have this and we need to have our peer support group and and all But the majority of the people who actually talked to me about things that was were bothering them were organizational issues. It was betrayal of trust. It was crappy promotional processes. It was retaliation and you know you did something that somebody didn't like so they sent you to a station that they knew you didn't want to go to or they sent you to a 40 hour work week and and those games that that are played by a lot of leaders in our business, all they do is hurt the leader.

Chief David Rhodes: I mean, you know, yes, it causes problems, but I think I think the the majority of not being able to cope and not being able to handle a bad call goes back to not having the support system. in the organization to begin with because obviously I went through my share of of of stuff and and It sucked, but like it never stopped me. Or, you know, I had I had strong strong family support at home. I had strong friends. I had FDIC. I had smoke divers and all those different things. And when you have that support network, you just have more resiliency and you're able to deal with with a lot more and and you know what sucks is when somebody doesn't have that. Corley: Right. Chief David Rhodes: And there's a lot of people that The fire the fire department is their stability and because their home life is bad. They're their finances are bad or whatever. And so the fire department is the one piece that could hold it together for 'em. And if you don't and and if you're not performing well in that from the leadership side, then they got nothing. And and so It's tough. It's tough. But but yeah, that was the main thing to the question, is just I saw it firsthand, so it was easy to talk about

Corley: Right on. Well, and and and it's I love the way you say that. I really do when you say I saw it firsthand so it's easy to talk about, but but that's I'm trying to say this though respectfully. There's not there's a lot of people who see it firsthand and then don't talk about it. And they just sweep it under the rug. So I think that's one reason why a lot of people respect your opinion and what you what you brought to the table with that with that that keynote speech. man, absolutely loved it. Okay, coming at you. Dustin Martinez says, Chief, can you please speak on the greatest nugget ever delivered? The hardest thing you will ever do is survive your own department. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah, I mean that goes right back to right back to what we were talking about. Always, you know, you always hear the the saying that You know, you're never never accepted in the homeland, to borrow the the the religious phrase there, you know, they say you're never accepted, no, no prophets in the homeland. And there's there's some truth to that. But the biggest thing is there's so much insecurity in a lot of the leadership positions that when folks are really cranking up and bettering themselves and especially like the instructor types that kind of start getting out of their getting out of their box and their department and they start getting a little of a little attention and recognition maybe they get an article published or whatever it really does in a lot of instances become a target. And and it's it's it's just insecurity on the leader's part. and it's it's there's a little jealousy. you know, tucked in there, tucked in there too. It's like, well, he, you know, why is he why is he doing that? Like, I'm the chief or I'm the Whatever. Right. And it's like, why how does that person get out of there? And the and the crazy thing is, is that if you were to if you were to study this It's probably going to tell you that the majority of the people that are out doing it is because their own departments not fulfilling their own mission to contribute.

Corley: Yes. Chief David Rhodes: And most people just want to contribute. And like one of the one of the scars, badges of badges of honor, whatever it is. I was one of the few. I was the only person in our organization that ever volunteered as a lieutenant to go to training. Like I was already an instructor, and at the time at our training academy, none of the lieutenants assigned to training were actually like certified like state instructors. And so I was union president at the time and I got sent to inspections as a 40 hour employee. And I'm like, well I'm on 40 hours. They're going to keep me on 40 hours. Right. I'd rather be at training. So I talked to the training chief, showed him all my certifications, credentials. He's like, oh yes, we're getting you out here. Like I'm about to, you're going to do recruit training. And so went to the fire chief. He comes back with his head tucked and he goes, sorry, bud, ain't gonna happen. And the only reason was they didn't want me having any influence over the recruits as the union president. Which I would have not talked to union stuff as the recruiting structure.

Corley: But they would have to have the yeah, the humility to realize that. Right. Chief David Rhodes: So so I did my almost three years on 40 hours as a lieutenant in inspections. I love and you have to learn you have to learn how to like You have to learn how to turn it into a game. So when I was in that, I hated it. I hated driving in every day. I hated what I was doing. So I was looking, I was like, well, what how could I use this to benefit me? And we had a spot for high-rise inspections, not just regular, you know, right stuff. So I volunteered internally there. I said, hey, what do I have to do to be a high-rise inspector? And there was no training. There was nothing. You just got assigned the position. And what it was was going and meeting with the building engineers. And I love learning about the high-rise systems. And so I used that as an opportunity. I said, at some point, this this sucks and it's a sacrifice, but when I get back to the station, this will pay big dividends. Because I'm gonna I'm gonna know all these buildings and I'm gonna know these building engineers. And and it did. It led to teaching classes, you know, on my own. Right. To building building managers and groups from incident command to evacuation. It just led to, you know, a lot of opportunities. I still didn't really love it, but I did it, survived. So you have to kind of flip the switch, turn it into a game and say They want me to be miserable, but I'm not going to show. I'm on I'm going to go in and do the best job I can, and they're going to have to run me out of here.

Corley: Hold on. I got to. I gotta timestamp it. I gotta timestamp it. I love it. real quick, everybody. It is choppy on Facebook, especially on Facebook YouTube seems to be a little smoother. It's smoothest on Instagram, but you don't so anyway, I'm just telling everybody Sam posted a link for YouTube where it is smoother, it's still choppy. the sound is good everywhere. So everybody seems to be on page. It's going well, except for that that issue. Okay, Facebook Sam just told us Facebook is having a lot of problems even with the sound. So jump on YouTube if you want to if you want to enjoy it live. and then Instagram also. So I don't know what's going on with Facebook tonight. I wanted to read this comment though. This is the other thing I want to say. Danny Dwyer said at one point We had David Rhodes, Todd Edwards, and Quirce Wessels all on the same shift as battalions and a shift commander. That was the best lineup possible for fire ground operations in Atlanta. Yeah, you talk about a dream team. Chief David Rhodes: And we were all three always under investigation. Corley: That tells you all you need to know. Absolutely love it.

Chief David Rhodes: Never convicted. One investigation lasted almost three years. Corley: And brother, I don't know how much you I'm right, I'm I'm time stamping because I don't know if you know how much I needed to hear that. Chief David Rhodes: So So I won't go into all the details, but We had a person trapped. they were kind of doing some overhaul, ceiling collapse, and they were trapped. And 16 minute operation to get them out. They're they were fine. They missed about six months of work. the guy was phenomenal. we even have a drill at Smoke Divers that re-re creates some of the environment that that that person, some of the situation he had to go through. And so we got called in and told it was all three of us that he mentioned. We got told that we were under investigation. And we were like, Man, because we had picked we had picked ourselves apart on this incident. Like we had already done a full after action report. We had had training with our crews about, you know, the things we learned and what we would do different And so the operations chief called us in and said, hey, I just wanted to let y'all know that I filed charges on all three of you and you're under investigation. And we were like Okay, and I actually was kind of like, okay, what did we miss? Like in when we self-critiqued, what was it that we missed? Right. And he looked at us and said, somebody got hurt. And I said, so you're filing charges on us because somebody got hurt? And he goes, yes. And I was just like. Okay. Okay. Like like does everybody get charges filed on them when somebody gets hurt? You know, and the answer was no, but we did. And and it would and then it lasted It it was almost three years before we actually heard the outcome of you know what it was. And and we were all cleared. Actually, there was a new operations chief in place by the time it was cleared and wrote a just a endorsement of everything we did. Right. Like and quote quoted quoted policy said that, you know, if it had been different folks, that the outcome may may not have been the same. And the in the whole nine. But you got that again back to the other two two questions.

Chief David Rhodes: You got that over your head for three years. For three years, you're like, okay, am I gonna get fired? Right. Corley: The toxicity, just the just the just the sort of Damocles just lurking, waiting, just wondering. It was brutal. Oh, I can only imagine the the stress, the e-stress, the fight or flight almost induced just reporting to duty. Chief David Rhodes: And then Danny knows, I mean You you get you guys to know his situation, so that same mentality. Same mentality. Corley: Same mentality. And that's where, and again, this to tie just to put a nice giant bow on everything, it ties right back into the beautiful question that was asked Where did that keynote come from? Especially when you talk about a lot of our issues comes from toxic leadership. A lot of the the mental health, it's not the calls, it's toxic leadership. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. Yep. Which is a chain, you know, it's part of the chain reaction that causes causes problems. And everybody's situation's unique. You know, but one of the things that got me through it, I never really had a pity party and I just moved on to whatever I could do, you know, moved to the next thing. Even Even when I went through the hole getting fired and demoted and all that for that short period of time, the guys that I worked with at the station, they'd never Like they were like, man, how can he come in here and be so happy and like do training and do everything else? Like, man, if that was me, I'd be pissed. You know, and it was just like it wasn't their fault. So

Corley: All right, I'm going back to Kyle here. Go back to Kyle. I'm gonna get the audience back in. I'd love it. I could talk about it for hours. Just just just on topic. Yeah, I think Logan asked what inspired the most recent that your recent but I think we covered that pretty good there was one that was coming at you because we are right in the middle of smoke diver season, man. It is smoke diver season. Murdoch1746 on Instagram wants to know if you could go back and tell yourself something Prior to becoming a smoke diver, what advice would you give yourself? Chief David Rhodes: Oh, prior, that would have been like my teenage years. So I don't know if I could think back that that far. Corley: That was only that was only a couple decades ago. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. So I went through smoke divers in nineteen eighty-six. So I don't know what I would have told myself back then. because I really didn't know what it was back then. It was kind of a secret thing. It was just, you know, people told you, hey, you you really enjoy this. You should go to this class. You didn't know you were going to get your butt handed to you to that extent. But I guess just going back to, you know, early mid mid eighties, I probably I don't know man. Maybe I would have maybe I would have slowed down just a little bit and enjoyed it a little more.

Corley: Oh wow. Okay. I like it. Absolutely. Chief David Rhodes: What's next? What's next? What's next? And And, you know, you're only at a station a certain amount of time. You're only with that crew a certain amount of time. And there's always something to bitch about, but just, you know, take a deep breath and enjoy it. The good parts. Corley: Beautiful. I want there was one I was looking for here. I'm looking for it. I like this. It's coming next next level training network, next level extrication, wants to know if you have to pick one thing that you like I love these gun-to-your head questions okay so I'm sorry but if you had to pick one thing that you like the most about FDIC what would it be Oh. So I I do love these questions though. I'm not gonna lie. Chief David Rhodes: They're not fair, but probably I mean Probably everybody expects me to say hands-on training and, you know, that part, but I I think just the fact that the networking that happens because the entire industry is there and you just don't get that you don't You know, you don't get that at a at a local show, you don't get it at some of the other shows, but the entire industry is there from great instructors to the engineers who design equipment and the conversations that you walk by in the hallway or that you overhear at dinner or that you, you know, hear at the bar, to me, that's sort of the magic. the training's great, the the traditions and the excitement we try to put on a really good educational program. Then you've got all the vendors there that you could spend days going through. But I think the the true magic is just the the connections that you make. that are outside of your department. And a lot of it, you know, a lot of people look forward to seeing those people that they don't see any other time.

Corley: You know the the networks that you build and can build and and and they outlast the conference, if that makes I think yeah. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah, and I will people get the recharge, you know. Yes. it's awesome. Corley: And I will say the big room. The big room with the pipes and drums, the stage, the flags, the the back end of that apparatus, so many, so many like Unbelievable speeches that I have nerded out to and watched on on YouTube throughout the years to sit there and get the goosebumps on your arms as as you get to see it live. Like last year with Brian Brush, one of my favorite people on this planet, man, absolutely crushing it. so unquenchable. But and and throughout the years, anyway, anyway. I yeah, so anyway. Chief David Rhodes: And and for me, I mean that's like a an overall answer, but like Personally, one of the things that I enjoy the most is seeing a new person teach there for the first time and providing that platform and opportunity. Say same feeling you get when somebody does their first article in the magazine You know, you're like, okay, I'm opening this door and this possibility. Let's see where this person is gonna take it. And sometimes they're one and done. Right. You know, that's that's it. But you never know Who's the next John Norman? Who's the next, you know, Alan Brunicini or whoever it is? Who's the next iconic person? They all got their start somewhere and started sharing information at some point. And you know, that's the best way you keep the keep the thing going.

Corley: I love it. Which is a perfect segue to if someone what advice do you have for someone interested in submitting an article to fire engineering? Chief David Rhodes: write in in the words of Mark Twain, write what you know. Don't don't write about A book you read that everybody else can read. Don't write about a class that you took that somebody else teaches that you're writing off your experience. I mean, you could do a review or something. but write about stuff that's unique to you and your department. you know. It's it's cool to read like the FDNY tactics on how things are, but there's nobody else in the country that can actually implement them because they don't have the staffing level. They can do they can learn from it, but the majority of the company, the majority of the countries one two person engine crews, a lot of volunteers. So like we need that. We need those lessons learned and and those tactics just as much as we do the urban tactics and and and things and and we want it all like but but we don't want you know if you live in you know, somewhere where the tallest building is the courthouse, two stories.

Corley: Yes. Chief David Rhodes: You don't need to be the one writing on high rise incident command, even though you may teach it at the National Fire Academy somehow. or whatever, we want, we want the person who is writing the article to have done the things that they're writing about, not just have learned about them. And and sometimes, you know, it's it's it's fair that you're you're regurgitating a course or whatever to get the information out there, but I think the the beauty of fire engineering is we try to hold true to that, right what you know, and we publish, you know, people who have experience in that area. And not we're not all we're not 100%, you know. we'll we'll miss it every now and then, but we do try to find out, okay If we don't know the names, like why is this person writing this? Like, what is their expertise in this area? And And we take a look at it and we may call them and say, hey, why don't you take this in a different direction? We we like where you're going, but like if you don't If you don't really have a background in that, why don't you take this angle on it? So that's a tough one.

Corley: Write what you know. I don't think there's a better piece of advice you could be given. I like this. Kyle Romag is coming at you. I'm gonna read this whole question to you. Chief, I have heard Todd's lecture many times. He plays the audio from the Mayday with collapse that you guys commanded together and speaks to the challenges that he met as the IC. I have always been interested to hear your perspective on the fire and the challenges that you were met with extricating him from the collapse. Can you speak to this if you don't mind? Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. so one big lesson learned from that was this this was a pretty good sized house. it was a early 1920s. It was right up there to the to the mansion status, I guess you could say. So it was slate roof and it had metal casement windows. fire was pretty much knocked down, had a few hot spots, sent the guy in, sent the crew in to try to get this one little area that was being stubborn. And as they went in, I noticed the guy was having to really squeeze in the window because it they couldn't take the the metal casement out or they didn't have a saw and So I was like, ooh, I don't like that. Because what are we taught? Always take the take the window out, you know, totally. And it's more for getting out than it is for getting in. And so I thought about it for a second and I'm like, all right, well, he's in there, he's a good guy, he's gonna be fine. So I said, hey, go ahead and get a saw and take that window frame out. And let's get that, let's get that window frame out while they're while they're working. I went underneath down into the bottom just to size up what the floor looked like and and I'll make sure it was good. And it was, and when I came out, a piece of cornice fell, fell down. And I looked, and I'd probably been gone maybe three, four minutes And there's no saw, nobody was cutting on that window deal. And I said, I told the captain who was standing at the top of the ladder, I'm like, hey Go ahead and get them out of there. let's let's get them out until we get that window taken out.

Chief David Rhodes: And so they all started moving towards the window and the entire roof came down on top of cup it pinned one and injured two others with like some some tears and sprains and and things like that. So we've immediately switched to managing the Mayday mode and I called on the radio because I was like the division Charlie sector at that time. And I was like, hey, I'm I'm giving that up and I'm going to be managing this Mayday. So we started We got a couple hose lines fire kicked back up with all the air and trainment. So we we put a couple hose lines in place to cover where they were. And I got a crew in there to assess assess what was going on. Now they say coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous. the shift before we had done a lot of like VES training, like entering windows and and rescuing each other and that kind of thing. So all that was still fresh on those crews mind. Right. They went in. They started calling for equipment. We called for the heavy rescue to come back. They said that they they knew where he was, but they couldn't get to him. like they couldn't lift the stuff off. So Down and dirty, as someone here says, on the mic, I got like four of the biggest, strongest guys on the department, one ex-football player, a couple ex football players, one guy's on the peer fitness right right in there. They they made a couple of cuts and I got a captain up there that could that was really good and could stay calm and organized and you know, they used they used brute strength to pick up whatever it was holding him. And I thought he was gone. The rumble, you know, the rumble of that collapse and the ground shaking, it was just like, oh my God, we got guys in there. Right. This is not good. But, you know, you just went straight in, stayed calm, went into, went into the, you know, train the stuff you trained for took care of all the the objectives that that you could and and the crews did a phenomenal job. You know, the hardest part was staying out of there. You know, because you want to run up there. Sure.

Corley: I can only imagine. Chief David Rhodes: And if you've Kyle, if you've listened to that tape, you probably heard me call for Saul's 20 times and what was happening is again go back to Not having your your your crap together as an organization. we were still running like the composite blades. They were stored in the compartments with the gas. the saws weren't in the greatest of shape. So every time we would we would get a saw, the blade would disintegrate. Disintegrate. You know, and we didn't have diamond blades at the time. Sure. And so that was a that was a pain. And I'd be like, hey, this saw's not working. Send me another metal cutting saw. And then finally I was like, send me every metal cutting saw we have on the scene Knowing the heavy rescue was coming and they had other equipment that we could use and I felt confident they could get through it, but two or three saws either wouldn't run right at the at the time we needed them or the blades were disintegrating and wasn't having any, you know, any impact. Or in some cases, you know, the excitement, there was probably some some you know ram in the sure sure right elevated elevated heart rate yeah yeah and you're working off of a ladder and just just a lot of things but but it worked out I mean For as heavy of entrapment as that was sixteen minutes getting the guy out. And you know, he I was actually with him last night, as a matter of fact. he pops out and comes down the ladder under his own power and he's like, hey chief, what do you need me to do now? Right. And I'm like, I need you to get on stretcher and go to the hospital. He ended up he had second, third degree burns, you know, but he was he was ready to go back.

Corley: Ready to go. Chief David Rhodes: And he's that guy, you know. So thank thank goodness you know he was good. It was a six-month recovery. but we had a good command staff there. We had good crews and You know, I think the most important part of that was Clark, the guy that was trapped, him remaining calm. And dude, this was down to the wire. Like When they he could not get to his regulator, he could not get to his radio. He was completely pinned on his back like a sandwich. Corley: Right. Chief David Rhodes: And it was hot coals underneath him. So he was being pressed like an iron, and that's what was burning him. It wasn't direct flame, it was just hot embers. And he remained calm because he could not do anything. He and he was running out of air and couldn't disconnect his regulator. So he was going to suffocate. he wasn't going to breathe smoke and he wasn't going to get CO poison. He was going to suffocate. His low alarm had already stopped going off. And he was in that, you know, minute and a half of of if you're if you're breathing really, really, really disciplined. And As they lifted that last piece off of his arm inside of his head, he was able to get up and unhook. And he had already had already like Sucked the face piece.

Corley: Sucked it flat, yeah. Chief David Rhodes: Woo. So it was like perfect timing. Yeah. Corley: No, I love it, man. I love the the quote of Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous. And I love Seneca's luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity because you were doing writ drills the day before. I love the fact that You know. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. And and and there's, you know, there's intuition to it too. can't slight that because I didn't like the fact that we sent them in there with the with the with the steel. window frames. So I knew that was wrong. That was bugged. That was bugged. Corley: Was that a gut thing or no? Or RPDM like the Rolodex or was it a conscious? Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. Well it was it was pr a little of both. One is I knew we taught that and that wasn't what you were supposed to do and if something happened and we couldn't get out. But When I went and looked underneath, because I was worried about the floor collapsing and it was good, when I came out and that cornice fell, we had had a fire several years. prior to this, where nice big, you know, ornamental piece of cornest fell and hit a guy that was like walking by and it burned him and knocked him to the ground and, you know, it hurt him. And I think seeing that was sort of that that trigger like you're talking about that hair hair on the back of your neck. And I was like, okay. The last time I saw this happen, somebody got hurt pretty bad. So, you know what? This is not doing overhaul is not worth Something happened, happening like this thing can burn and burn and burn. We're just trying to get in there to get it out so we can get back in service and you know get back to other calls or whatever it is. And it was just like, you know, get it get them out. And and I'm glad, I mean, even though they they got hurt, they were closer to the window and and a couple of them missed getting pinned too. They got slammed up against the wall and hurt. but but they didn't get pinned. And so it was a it was a rough it was a rough 16 minutes. Yeah, it was it was 16 minutes that lasted three hours.

Chief David Rhodes: Right. It's slow motion. So Corley: No, thank you for sharing it, man. Thank you for sharing it. Todd Edwards said 100%, brother. Chief David Rhodes: Then the charges came. Corley: That's the one that got the charges. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. Corley: Okay. Okay. Everything snaps into focus. Chief David Rhodes: That's one of many. Corley: Three years later. I have four pages of questions coming at you. So I don't know how long you set aside for tonight, but let me go with Chief, is there a pivotal moment in your career that made you so dedicated to improving the craft? that comes from Anthony Gianfrito. So I wanted to. Chief David Rhodes: I don't I don't think there was, I think I I was very fortunate that when I went to work, my first apartment was in my hometown. in Conyers and it was a very unique place. There's only 20 folks on the department and all of them were like, you know, state instructors. half of them were already smoke divers and smoke diver instructors. So I think going there was like was the pivotal thing. I got started off right. You know, I didn't go somewhere and get with a bad officer or have a bad system. It was it was a very close-knit family, very supportive across the board. And just policies that you would be like, that's insane. How did they do that? You want to go to a training class? Okay. Approved. Well, we we've already got three people off approved. it's an eight-hour class at the fire academy, which is a couple hours away. you're good for 24. Yeah, come back. Come back when the class is over. You didn't report back at, you know, seven o'clock at night if your class ended at five. You were off. we accrued vacation and sick leave in 24 hour increments. One day for us was 24 hours. And so like we were working 2472 when I first went there. After two years, I had enough time I could almost take off six months because I never took off. You had 10 24 hour holidays. You had 12 24 hour vacation days and on a 2472 schedule, I mean, you save that up for two years and boom.

Corley: Yeah, no. Do you do you feel like that sets you up for how you treated treating and and and the important yeah, okay. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah, all of those people. I mean, I still stay in touch with with most of those folks. We have matter of fact, we have a lunch next Tuesday that that I'll attend and and it's kind of funny because I'm like one of the young younger guys in the group that that's around because we ended up in ninety we got shut down and consolidated with the county. And and I then I was only with the county like about a year and a half. But but yeah they were they were a hundred percent role models in every, every regard and and what to do off duty. It's one of those places where, you know, everybody had their part-time job and you never, if no matter what you were doing, framing a house, pulling wire, cleaning chimneys, whatever it was. You went through a drive-through and got your lunch and came to the fire station and ate it. You know, there'd be like seven or eight off-duty guys sitting at the table eating lunch with the four or five on-duty guys. Yes.

Corley: That's awesome. That is that yeah, that doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. No. No, and and and I want to read this this comment from Carpe Twego, which is Amanda Miller. Even though she tries to stay behind Carpe Fuego and I'll I'll out her here on the scrap and say she's teaching at FDIC for the first time this year. Very excited. So everybody should show up and be there. I wish I would have looked up when it was. You can post it in there and I'll tell people to be there. But not the point. She said that dot dot dot dot dot dot dot is unheard of. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah. Corley: Why why why is that such a rare why why is that such a unicorn? Chief David Rhodes: I think, you know, just the leadership they established that they they sold it to City Hall. You know, they were like, hey, we work 24 hours, so it's like Why is a day not 24 hours for us? Why do we have to take three, eight-hour days to get one day? You know, we're not like everybody else. Right. They stood up and said we're not like everybody else. And then as far as the training thing, they knew the value of training. And I had a conversation with the chief that was there that that hired me, and this is probably only Took place maybe six or seven years ago. And I was 18 when I applied there. And I didn't get hired the first time. even though I They were like, hey, if you come volunteer, we'll send you to, we'll send you to every you had to be an EMT there too. That was you know, kind of unheard of in 80. Five.

Corley: Yeah. Chief David Rhodes: And and so he was like, hey, if you if you sign up to volunteer, we'll we'll go ahead and send you to EMT school and you can go ahead and knock that out and get out of the way. So I volunteered from like September to December. And dude, they couldn't run me off. Like I was there, I was working more than the paid guys, you know, volunteering. And so I asked him, I said, why did you, why did you hire me? And he said, Well He said, I was a little worried because you were so young. And he goes, that's why we hired the two older guys before we hired you. And he said, but once I saw you there, he goes, my philosophy was, he goes, I didn't look at certifications and And, you know, all that stuff in an application. He said, I was trying to hire people that I knew would fit in to our culture. And he said, I can teach you the rest. And he said we had instructors and rope rescue, trench rescue, you know, firefighting, LP gas, smoke diver, whatever it was, they had plenty of people that could teach you what you needed to know. He said, I needed to know that you could fit in. And he said, and you showed me that in the in the two, three months that you volunteered. So I don't regret it at all. Now I would have so I'm coming up on my third year retiring from Atlanta. Had I gone to Atlanta when I went there, I would have been retired like 10, 12 years ago. But I don't regret any of it because it set me on the right road.

Corley: Right on. I want to throw this at you. A lot of stuff I still want to cover, so I'm trying to go quick. Derek Iight says, and it's A Y D T, but Chief, how can one change the mentality of it will never happen to us? But instead prepare for it before it happens. How can you guide leadership who is calling those shots to start thinking that way? Chief David Rhodes: case studies, it's like it it it it's not If it's gonna happen, it's it's when it's gonna happen. And you know, you wanna you wanna hope for the best and prepare for the worst. And that should be the, you know, the training. the tr training mantras, you you should train to prepare for the worst thing that could happen on a rescue, the worst thing that could happen on on a fire and then work your way work your way back and it all starts with basic skills and then it goes into doing scenario based training so that you have to actually have to make decisions and And adapt when, you know, when a hydraulic hose breaks or adapt when a the engine loses pressure. And you have to think of your training that way. And I think the more you the more you set up, you don't ever want to set somebody up to fail overall, but as after you master the basics, then you need to throw kinks in that make people adapt. And overcome to the situation. And I think that's the best best training you could get.

Corley: Boom. Boom. That's all you can say. And my Mike Heney said, hell yeah, Chief David Rhodes. Love it. Man, I have so many questions there, but I want to get to some of the things that I don't have to be at work till eight in the morning. Fair enough. Fair enough. How is FD FTIC pay it forward campaign? Talk to me about it. Chief David Rhodes: So We wanted to do something to encourage people that may not have had the opportunity to come to FDIC before. Or sometimes I'd hear stories about, you know, somebody, and it would just be like, man, I'd really like to get that person to to FDIC. And so I was talking to somebody, I was down at it was it was in January of last year. And Kurt invited me down. So right after they named me editor, Kurt invited me down. He says, hey man, I'll give you the stage for five, ten minutes, however long you need to tell everybody who you are and you know what your plans are and all that. And so I did that. It was very appreciative, very welcoming. They had all the FDIC instructors that were there come up on stage and, you know, it was very, very welcoming. And then I was talking to a guy, Up in the hospitality suite one night and I asked this guy, I'm like, so you ever been to FDIC? Had about 18, 20 years on, it seemed like. And he's like, no, never will. Cost too much. And I said, oh, really? He said, yeah, he goes, I I can't afford, you know, to to to pay all that money. It costs so much to stay and everything. And I And so that like bugged me, you know, after I left. I'm like, you know, not everybody's department pays for them to go. And and it doesn't matter where you go. I mean, hotel, hotels everywhere. Go to Nashville for a non-event weekend and you you know you're paying four hundred dollars a night to stay down to stay downtown. So anyway, I was like, what can we do to like maybe help some of these folks out. So the idea was sort of started there and I would get calls from people Just telling me stories about other people. They're like, man, this person does training all the time.

Chief David Rhodes: I was talking to them. They'd never been to FDIC. you know, we need to find a way to get them there. So we just started the started the campaign and We made up a little ceremonial ticket. Nice. Phone board. And I sign it and send it to them in the mail or either you know, if I'm there, I'll present it to them firsthand. But we've we've given out, you know, a dozen or so of those this year. And we've got a couple training officers from Canada coming that have never been. Corley: Nice. Chief David Rhodes: This the guy I was talking about from County Fire Tactics, he's the head logistics guy down there. He's coming. And you know, several more around. And some of them we've given away some to I just gave one to Blake Stanett the other day. for him to use in his organization next rung. They can use it as a as a prize for somebody or they can raffle it off whatever, you know, whatever they want to do with it. We've done a few of those to help people raise some funds Right on. But that's the main thing is like again it's back to opening doors. I know what FDIC did for me by being a part of it and it's It's, you know, trying to provide that opportunity to somebody that may not have the resources to come.

Corley: Love it. Absolutely love it. what's new what's new at fdic this year 2024 you got you got your fingerprints all over it so let's hear yeah well obviously we're bringing back hot we've got 20 20 hot classes and Chief David Rhodes: Two of them are brand new. we've got Common Sense Technical Rescue that's being taught by one of the local guys there, Clinton Crafton. And they got four or five scenarios, car into a building, you know, person trapped in a machinery, whatever. And and you run through all five of those scenarios and it's what you can do as an engine company or a truck company. It's not what you can do as a technical rescue team. Corley: Nice. Chief David Rhodes: Nice. And one that I've wanted to get for a long time and finally had the ability to do it was Eric Wheaton's Canned Confidence, which has been around for years, but we added that as a live fire. And then we've got some new, we've got some returning classes that have new leads. The hoisting, operating, stretching, and estimating, which was Ray McCormick's class last year. We've bumped that to an eight-hour class with Steven Florian from Detroit. Truck Essentials, which was Mike. Champo's class for since its inception is now led by guy few people have heard of, Sam Hittle I don't know if anybody's heard of him. Some people.

Corley: Especially here in Oklahoma. Chief David Rhodes: Yep. Then we've got advanced vehicle extrication that was Lee Holland's. Still, I think that may be the last of the original hot classes that are still running. And so we've got a new lead instructor. Nick Hurley is taking that class over. And then what we created that was new is something that's kind of been in our mind, a couple of us for probably about six, seven years now and and we didn't have the ability to pull it off, but we have started what's called hot workshops. So everybody knows we have four-hour classroom workshops, but now we're adding in hot workshops, which are A couple of hours of classroom and a couple of hours of heavy demo with participation if you want to participate, but you don't have to get on the bus. You don't have to bring a ton of gear. Corley: It's like a hybrid almost. Chief David Rhodes: It's a hybrid class, yes. Corley: So beautiful. Chief David Rhodes: So we've got and we moved some heavy hitters into those roles. so we got Mike Champo doing tower ladders, tactics and tips. We've got Dennis Leghier doing engine design layout for function. We've got Ray McCormick doing nozzle and line boss leadership. Lee Hollins doing school bus extrication. And we've got Brandon Maurer from Wichita. And we've teamed, he's a young guy, and we've teamed him up with Bob and Rex Morris to do through the lock forcible entry.

Corley: There you go. Chief David Rhodes: then we have remote tactical training, which we got the FDNY training guys to come and put a class together on how they're using technology to to do live video training and stream it and then the big one is we partnered with underwriter laboratories fsri to do a 16 hour fire dynamics boot camp at the Indianapolis fire academy. And so that's a 16 hour class. Corley: And Monday-Tuesday deal? Chief David Rhodes: Yep. And so those are all brand new. that one, of course, you sign up for the whole class. All the rest of them are four-hour blocks. So they're offered four times a day or four times in two days. with the exception of Champo's Champo is only doing the Tower Lighter class on Monday. And then the remote tactical training is taking his place on Tuesday because because we have to move his trucks in for the For the conference. For the conference. Get them in this place. But it's just a it's just a a new format that we're trying. It looks like I love the evolution of it. And the other thing is, you know Hot er everybody everybody looks at it in different ways, but hot is an investment by our company in the education of firefighters.

Corley: Yes. Chief David Rhodes: we lose money right at Hot. The conference obviously makes money and it covers it, but it's a big commitment to pull that hot program off because it is not, it's not even close to breaking even. And so Corley: Oh, the logistics of the buses, the firefighters, the moving them out, the driving hour. Chief David Rhodes: Sometimes, you know, just to get yeah, no, it's yeah, sorry. So, so The buses hold 55 people. That's why there's 55 students in each hot class because we need the maximum amount of people to be able to pull it off. For these, obviously there's no bus. There's no site to get, this is all take place in the parking lot Corley: of of LucasOil are are right there around the convention center. Chief David Rhodes: And so we're limiting those sessions to 30 people per session. So that you have a little more intimate ratio. right. Ratio and you've got two to three instructors, you know, with the thirty students. But it's, you know, there's no IDLH. There's none of that to have to worry about. So so we're trying that. We hope that that goes off good. Then we've got oh, 58 workshops, 58 four-hour classroom workshops on everything under the sun. we still have our our EMS credit hours for any class that mentions victim removal, patient care, triage. It can be a search class. It could be a hot class that's live fire, but if there's a victim component in that class, then you get you get EMS hours for it. If you apply for them. I would much I would much rather get EMS hours doing that than sitting at the computer, you know, trying to read about bloodborne pathogens or something.

Corley: Yeah, no, absolutely. Chief David Rhodes: Trying to knock out my stuff. And then we've got 206 classrooms. Corley: Woo! This is this is the Wednesday through Friday, Saturday. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah, and well that that includes the women in the fire lineup, which is Monday. Okay. Also, but as far as classroom setups, there's there's like 206 classrooms. And then we have some micro events inside. We have a Metro Fire Chiefs group that meets. We had the Chiefs from LA County there last year. This about a hundred folks get together and they talk about their issues. we found, you know, the fire chiefs, the fire chiefs aren't coming to learn how to do VES. Like they got other other issues they're talking about. So we got them. We've got the gyms group that meets the EMS, the medical directors, the providers. We've got the tall buildings conference. This is the first time ever in the U. S. Corley: And so the Tall Buildings conference is being co-located with us. Chief David Rhodes: A lot of FDIC instructors are are doing both. So they may teach a session there and then teach another session out. And then for the first time in quite a few years we have the ARF Rescue Group.

Corley: really rapidly that is there that's going to be doing some stuff. Chief David Rhodes: And Indy's building a ARF training center at their airport. And so we're hoping that you know, in the next couple of years that's finished and we'll be able to offer the actual burns that every airport firefighter has to get to stay certified. And we'll be able to do that at FDIC, you know, in the next couple of years. Corley: Oh man, I love it. Chief David Rhodes: That plus all the other stuff. And then I guess another big thing is last year we had Fire Station of the Future. Right. In Lucas Oil. Lucas Oil, yeah. And a ton of people came to Lucas Hall to see it. This year we have the drill yard. So we actually have a burn building and some props. We have a rescue zone, and we will be offering some free training. in there. we've partnered with Women in Fire, we've partnered with ISFSI and some other folks. There'll be some vendor-led training there, and then there'll be some organizations that are doing classes that that you can sign up for. Obviously they won't let us burn in there, but BulX has partnered with us and designed and complete digital building. So if you're familiar with their fire panels, they got the fire panels in there, the smoke machine. So there's some things you can do rep rep-wise.

Corley: Right. Chief David Rhodes: And and you're gonna be getting it from some, you know, big organizations and and learning about some new products. So I love it. That'll be there. Corley: Love it. Man. Chief David Rhodes: There's other stuff, but Corley: No, no, no, no, brother. Chief David Rhodes: I to holy smokes. And some big stuff for opening ceremonies. Whatever you've aren't. Oh, really? We've cut opening ceremonies by 30 minutes. We got some feedback. Two hours was a little much. Okay. And and We we agreed with that. So we've we've shortened it. That gives you 30 extra minutes to get over your night before to get there and get a seat. The doors will the doors will still open at eight. but the the show won't start until 8 30 and and we've got some new stuff that'll that you'll see when you get in there I'm excited. Really exciting. Corley: I'm excited. I will man. I can sit here and talk and nerd out all night long. And I know you got to be at work at 8 in the morning. But well, I would I do want to touch on this because Scott Thompson is one of my favorite people on the planet And he is a keynoter this year.

Chief David Rhodes: Yep. Corley: talk to me about keynotes for FDIC 2024. What you want to talk about? Chief David Rhodes: Yeah, so we've got Scott on day one and Jason Helman on day two. Corley: My favorite people on the planet. Chief David Rhodes: very much big leaders. so Scott, his name has has been put out there by the board numerous times. And we thought it was a great time to have him because just because of the culture he's created at the colony, the things that he's doing that are I don't know. I guess some people would call him radical, but the things he's doing, just hiring, you know, paramedics to be on the ambulances and that's their job and he's right. He's assigning people to the truck company and that's their job. And kind of goes back to the Conyers thing. It's like You kind of get what you'll accept. So if the system tells you, hey, everybody's got to be able to ride every position and we can't do this, then then that's the way you'll do. But if if you can, if you can understand it and why it's important and you can sell it then you know and he's done it. Right. He's done it. Right. And he's and he's gotten He's gotten some grief about it from his peers in the in the industry. Like, you're ruining the fire service. It's like, no, look, this guy's not having recruiting problems. Right. There's no vacancies unless they create a position that's new. And so I just thought the fire service needed to hear from him. And then Jason with his leadership. stuff. I mean, he's just such a humble guy that has a great message. And I couldn't think of, you know, two better people. And I'm I'm glad this it was my my first First picks. I I loved the key noters last year, but they were already determined before I got into position. all of them were were great guys and and are still involved in the system, but this is the first one that I actually had to make the decision on.

Corley: You got to give the thumbs up, thumbs down. Chief David Rhodes: Yeah, and they were already in the they were already in the system in the queue considered. But Corley: And everybody understands that there's a lot that you got thrust on your plate and a whole lot of people saying, Hey, I was told, I was told, I was told, and you have to sort through all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Chief David Rhodes: I mean, that's not an easy thing to absolutely. I I I found out real quick that every single person in the fire service used to get free passes. Corley: Oh really? A couple things I'll say shamelessly on my own part. Chief Scott Thompson, one of my favorite people on the planet. He was on scrap 178. If you want to hear something, he was also one of the original OGs of the scrap number 27 and 64. He's been on here three times and he's coming back this year. So man, I could not say enough about I'm so excited about what he's gonna do and what he's done. And then Chief Jason Hovelman he was also a very early number 34, I believe, but also just recently. Yes, the Functional Fire Company. absolutely one of my favorite books in the fire service. I mean, between Pride and Ownership and the Functional Fire Company, step up and lead. I don't know if I can. I mean, I don't want to sit here and say favorites, but that's the problem when you start doing it. You think of all the ones you leave out. But Jason Holman, if you want to hear what you're gonna. Just a taste of what you'll get is go to 208 on the scrap and listen to it. It's one of my favorite scraps of all time. I'm telling you, the leadership nuggets he drops in it is unreal. So that's the shameless plug there for the scrap. But all that being said, I want to get to First of all, you're the editor-in-chief of fire engineering, so I want to know what book or books do you think firefighters should read? I don't know if I need to put a timer on this, but Yeah, I actually pulled, I knew you were going to ask me that.

Chief David Rhodes: So I actually pulled a few. Some fire service and some non-fire service. Excellent. And I know at least one of them will be a repeat from the last time I was on here. But Obviously from from from fire engineering, the one I just held up. Right on. I mean it's just a guide and Phenomenal. A new one that just came out. Ooh. Mastering. Rawcraft. Raw. It's It's if you're listening to this, like this is probably for you. Like it's it's written to us. It's like what do they say by us, for us, or or whatever. I mean, it is It's telling you it's giving you the justifications for why you're doing what you're doing. And if you can't, if you can't sell VES to your chief, if you can't sell searching, you know, without a hose line in certain situations, then then this explains it in great detail all the way. Corley: Why it matters. Yes. Chief David Rhodes: From a philosophical level level all the way to a tactical level. This one just came out. Phenomenal, phenomenal. Operational intelligence for health and wellness and leadership. Corley: just come over in front of your face a little bit. Yeah, there we go. There you go. There you go. Yeah, that's better.

Chief David Rhodes: So perfect. Perfect. This one has been in the works for a while and Bobby actually got the guys to write this one and he had made a comment, he goes, okay, this will change the fire service. This is gonna change some of the mentality. on that one. So that's a great one. we've got about 10 titles coming out at the conference. and remind remind me to talk about some of those. But I'll go to my number one of all time, servant leadership. By Robert Greenleaf. This is the big one. As you can see, I had a few spots that I flagged in the you might you might have found some nuggets inside. This one was sort of gotten me on the this was probably read this one in 2004, 2005. It was right as we were bringing smoke divers back. and it got me on the whole path of decision making and all another one. Boyd, I actually actually became friends with Chet Richards, who's mentioned in the in the book. And And that's Boyd by Boyd of the ODA loop, just so everybody can see it. Just know. And that's by Robert Corum. But one of the people that helped him with a lot of the stuff was Chet Richards and Chet made all of Boyd's charts. So if you ever see the Oodaloop chart, like you know, with the parts, he was the He was the brains behind all the graphics and the charts and they were at the Pentagon together and designing obviously, you know, the the I think it was the 14 and 15, 14, 15, if I I can't even remember those right, but it was it was that model, the first one, you know, the old top gun planes. Right. And also and also the Warthog. They were involved in that. Nice. And this one, this one I pulled kind of goes back to kind of like surviving the fire service and what can happen, like if bad things happen to you and you feel like you're not getting a fair shake. This one goes into some history. Bobby would be proud of me for this one. George Washington and Benedict Arnold, a tale of two patriots. So what do we know about Benedict Arnold, right? Traitor and all the stuff. But when you actually read About his accomplishments and the things that he did and all, it's phenomenal.

Chief David Rhodes: And then you see what happened. Right. Because he Came to a fork in the road and his principles and his character failed him And and and for all the million good things that he did to help us win, he had that fatal, fatal flaw. So that's a great one. And it and it it makes you think about yourself and it's like, okay, am I going to be bitter about I didn't get this promotion? Am I going to be bitter that I'm not at the station I want to be at? And how am I going to handle myself? Am I going to am I going to start sabotaging the organization? Or what, and it's probably the biggest, you know, American story there is. So those are my ones for tonight. I'll mention some of the new titles that are coming out for FDIC, John O'Connell's updated his emergency rescue shoring book. It's been quite a while since that one. And, you know, John is the shoring guru. He was Oklahoma City with Ray Downey. He was in charge of all shoring and all for the World Trade Center for a year or more. we've got mastering fire ground command by Brush and Castros. We've got a book that's very personal to me that Diane and I worked on to get out. It's a complete collection of Alan Brunicini's work. And it's called Bruno Unplugged. Which was his famous FDIC stuff.

Corley: Nice. Chief David Rhodes: Nice. That's coming out this Yep and then the other big one, and we and we've got we've got a lot more. I'm not going to go into each one of them, but the other big one is we were able to partner with Fire Nuggets and we are finally releasing the Andy Fredericks works. Oh wow. So it's official. It's Contracted, all the copyrights are good. It's a partnership between fire engineering and fire nuggets. And so that book will be available finally. Finally, officially. Finally, officially. And and it's phenomenal to be at the show. So that's a big one. That was that's that's probably getting that done. with Chris Slayers probably right up there as my top accomplishment is finally being able to pull that off after a lot of road bumps. So We're very happy about that one. Corley: You'll have to come back and see the reaction you just got in the chat from that here at the tail end. But 100% I have to say I love it. Mark Alone said I can listen to Chief Rhodes talk all day. Great scrap brother. A freaking men. Wow. I don't know how many fire emojis I could even mention. replying to Steve Shaw, what damn? One, two, three, four, five exclamation points, maximum max points. glad it is happening. Oh yeah, absolutely. Hey, one thing I saw Steve Shaw posted it here. Steve Shaw, I want to get you on a scrap. I'm putting it out here live with Dave Rhodes. I want you on the scrap.

Chief David Rhodes: So that's required. Corley: Yeah, it's required. He said it was required. The editor-in-chief said it was required. Chief David Rhodes: Let me give a shout-out to there's two other books that are coming that aren't going to be ready for FDIC, but they'll probably be ready. Mid-late summer is gonna be Dina Eile's book that she's been working on That's gonna, you know, kind of tackle some of the things that we talked about in the beginning of the show. And then Goldfetter and Frank Leib have the long-awaited 30 fires. book that should be out sometime around August. So those are some it's we're we're cranking them. Brother and we are we are cranking them. Corley: That is awesome. And yeah, Dina, actually Dina actually posted said I kill, okay, comma. I now know why mine is on the back burner. Chief David Rhodes: Nah. No, we're we're gonna get it out. We're gonna get it out. And it's it's all gonna be it's all gonna be good. But I know I know she's dying to get it out and we're dying, we're dying to get it out too. So That's why I made the comment earlier in the show. I know what she's gonna ask, but we talk about it all the time.

Corley: And she it's not like she hasn't poured her heart and soul into it. Here we go. The five questions for firefighters. It's been around for a long time. Crazy. Crazy that it's actually acting. Yeah. It's weird. All right, but not the point. It has had a lot of iterations. We're currently in iteration version 3. 2. Oh. Chief David Rhodes: So these are different than the first one that I got. Corley: Yeah. Absolutely. I don't know how long these will last. These have been doing pretty good, but we're also evolving them hence the 3. 2. Because anyway, There is no right answer. They are strictly your opinion, and the points are arbitrary assigned by me with the help of the studio audience. So my question for you first before I start the five questions is Chief David Rhodes, are you ready for the next five questions for firefighters versions 3. 2? I'm ready. I love it. Number one, what is the skill that has carried you through your fire service career? Chief David Rhodes: The mentality to never stop learning. Corley: Never stop learning. Chief David Rhodes: And that doesn't happen by chance. I mean you gotta Seek it out. Sometimes you end up you're an instructor, so you're teaching and you know, but your training's not over. It's never over. You're learning something every freaking day because things change. If you don't stay up, then you know, you'll be you'll be teaching some rookie something that was the way you got taught it twenty years ago and they don't even do that anymore. You know, whether it's setting up a anchor line on a rope rescue or or whatever. So you gotta you gotta keep learning and you gotta be curious and and look outside the fire service for stuff too.

Corley: Boom. Carpe Fuego said boom. So I think that encapsulates it. Michael Hapke said 100%. I will say this. If you don't learn, you will find yourself teaching your rookie to hold on to your boot while you tap a wall. And And and and and quack, quack, quack. Yes, rightfully so. And you will think that you are you have to learn. You have to learn. Never stop learning. I'll buy that t-shirt max points from Dan Bender. I love it. Boom. Max points off the top, Jake Jacobs. Easy, easy max points with the support of the audience, of course. Number two I love this question. It's one of my favorite questions I ask. It's job town. It's time. You're in route and responding. You have to think of the scene from Backdraft where he slaps that tape into that cassette deck that's mounted on that dash. what song are you playing in route? Oh, that's easy. Chief David Rhodes: Back in Black, AC DC. Corley: AC DC, baby. Chief David Rhodes: G. G. Corley: Ah yes. Thank you for letting me do mouth guitar with you. Absolutely love it. Back and black, max points, easy max points. Especially with the air guitar slash mouth guitar. Number three, what is your favorite fire service tradition?

Chief David Rhodes: Probably bagpipes. Mm. Anything to do with like the whole bagpipe thing, whether it's a opening ceremony, a parade, a funeral, whatever. It's just, man, it's it's they're so freaking emotional. You know, it can be happy, it can be sad, but it's just, man, I don't know. It's if you don't like the bagpipes, then it's like, you know, why are you even in the fire service? Corley: I can't you gotta you gotta go back and read it. Max effing points, max points, yeah, 14 exclamation points. Chief David Rhodes: I don't know that we can Mouth bagpipe. Corley: I don't know the hell that would sound. We cannot try. Chief David Rhodes: That would be bad for everyone in the channel. Corley: Absolutely. Max points for bagpipes All the points. Mark Alone said all the points. Pipes for the win. Drop the mic and play the pipes. Max points. Bag pipes for the win. Game over. Five questions retired. Maybe. That comes from Josh Everett. Maybe we have to get it. Chief David Rhodes: Maybe we'll maybe I'll create a new scale. Corley: You are the first per and I will say this because I've been asking this question now for since roughly 200. and so you're the first person to say bagpipes on the on the tradition And that's that's that's surprising to me because it seems like such a obvious one now that you said it. Now that you've pulled it out into the light.

Chief David Rhodes: And wait till you see the FDIC masked bagpipe challenge going this year. Corley: Okay, I love it. Chief David Rhodes: All right. Corley: Easy, easy max points one through three. Number four. This one's on the clock. We had to put this on the clock. This one really intrigues me. asking you but you have one minute to answer sam will put the clock up there if he can and I will ask you who are your four people you would put no honorable mentions No, but you got one one minute to get this out there. Who are the four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service? Chief David Rhodes: So for me. For you. Corley: For you. Chief David Rhodes: Your your Mount Rushmore. All right So some of these folks people probably won't know. first one would definitely be Scott Milsap, who was my mentor at Smoke Divers. He was the smoke daddy before me, got me involved in FDIC And he he's up there for sure. back to Conyers, probably one of the guys that took me under his wing, Joel T. Bigfoot Yoder. Wasn't that much older than me, but really just, you know, included me in everything from helping teach classes to to you know develop and training at the at the department so he's definitely up there iconic guy everybody will know was a personal friend and taught me a ton about getting involved at a bigger level than just you know your your own department was Alan Bernissini and and then my wife for putting up with all this shit for 37 years and allowing me to do it. So that's my four. Boom.

Corley: Boom. I'm looking to see what everybody says. But no, I that like you said, two people people wouldn't know. I love when people bring the personal I love when people tell the people that shaped who they were that no one else knows. Bruno, how do you how do you knock Bruno? Ever, ever. Chief David Rhodes: And then just He he he could take the most complex issue and break it down to simplicity, you know. And so for the people who are wondering where Bobby Halton would be he would not be on Ret route Mount Rushmore because there's four spots. So he would be the crazy horse. He would be on the crazy horse one. 'Cause he would want to be bigger and and and alone and bold. I love it. Corley: I absolutely love it. Aren't enough points. Fireman718 said absolutely solid max points. Max points, five exclamation points from Greg Van Ham. Joshua Everett said Max Mount Rushmore. Preston Lyon said max panel max points for the wife, max points, and and Mark I think it was Mark Lone. They're scrolling too fast. Mark Alone said, bro, wife on the Mount Rushmore, new point scale unlocked. Dan Bender said his wife is off camera. I love this. Steve Mount said at the buzzer with the wife, infinite points. And brother, I want to say this. I love it. I absolutely love it. People know me. They know I love my wife, Amanda. She's the one who pretty much makes sure that. I look effective. That's probably the best way I can say it. I couldn't say any of this stuff. Right on.

Chief David Rhodes: Three kids and It's phenomenal. Right on. Yeah, it goes back to that support network we talked about. Corley: Speaking of which, the the article, which I'm going to try to put a few polishing touches on it, but it's done. 1300 words coming at you Sweet. So it's coming. And she worked very hard on it. So final question. It is the question. You've had it before, so but I still want to see if anything's changed since. Heavy fire, searchable space, would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Chief David Rhodes: Do I actually have to think about that one? Corley: Probably not. Chief David Rhodes: Should the audience answer? We can wait if you want them to. Corley: We should see it. Wait, wait and see. Chief David Rhodes: See what comes up for the next one. That's my answer. Corley: There is a delay. Let's see. Okay. Okay. I wait. There is a delay, so we will see what the audience says. I'll wait and see if They might have been holding their breath and seeing. I've got a ha ha ha ha so far from Carpe Fuego. Carpe Fago said VES all caps. We'll see if that's holds true. Chief David Rhodes: All right. I was never never one to be attached to the boat acre. So I'm the I I am V E S all day.

Corley: Cody Brooks said VES. Dina Ali said if not nozzle, I'm not coming to FDIC. Michael Lazari said 100 100 P V It's all coming now because the delay was We almost waited long enough. VES VES U I I can't even count how many VES is just scrolled by. Preston Lyons VES. NT said VS. I got a taste and I love it. Dino Ali said so disappointed. So there you go. Chief David Rhodes: Hey. Hey, but I I I want I want the nozzle coming. I want it coming. I gotta I gotta have it in there because you never know what's gonna happen. But it's just I guess you know it's kind of a microcosm of life. It's like you're attached to that line and you're slow and you gotta move and and yeah, it's fun to kill the beast, you know, I but it's so much more fun to be free and have a hook in your hand and and be popping from room to room. You know, I probably said this before, but it's like I love getting first on a fire with the truck, going in, sizing up everything, shutting a few doors. Doing that and then meeting the engine company at the front door and going, hey fellas, follow me. It's back here. Right on. Right on. It's like recon. It's like recon

Corley: You know. I know you have no time to do this Okay. But if you ever get a chance, go back and read the comments because they really are quite clever and funny at times. But even smoothboard cartel, Kyle said we can't all be winners. And Absolutely the easiest. I will say this on record: the easiest max points I have ever given for five point the five questions for firefighters. Absolutely crushed it. I loved bagpipes, man. I didn't realize how much I would love bagpipes until you said it. So with that, that officially makes it 234. I can't believe I'm saying that. Scraps in the book. Chief David Rhodes, if people want to, I almost hesitate to say that. If people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so? What's the best way to reach out to you and make contact? Chief David Rhodes: Well, they can call me or text either one 678-776-5273. Text is probably the best or email david. roads at clarion events. com. Corley: There you go. I cannot believe. Absolutely. Everybody, housekeeping, go to firehousevigilance. com. You can find everything you want, all the episodes of the podcast. swag. You can join the vigilantes. I love the vigilantes. I gotta show the hat. Flash the hat. Join the vigilantes. Awesome. The vigilantes will be having an after party after the scrap. Chief David Rhodes has agreed To come in there and be roasted by the vigilantes, they're gonna show up and they're gonna bust your chops. I assure you about we'll see. They never do it. one thing to tell people All that being said, coming up on the scrap, Preston Lyons. He's been commenting in here all evening. Preston Lyons has been commenting. He's on the scrap next week So we'll put him on the hot seat. We'll get to judge his answers. We'll also get to bust his chops in the after party. So it's going to be a good time. Daniel, the week after that. Paul Capo, the week after that Do not want to miss these episodes. It's going to be powerful. Keeping 2024 rolling. The scrap after party. Sam will post the link. I'll invite Chief. Everything. It's great. Audience. I want to tell you this right now. I cannot ever say this enough. You make the scrap magical without your questions, it would just be me and Chief.

Corley: roads having a great conversation. Don't get me wrong. I would be I would be all about that. But you guys really do throw them my guests the best questions ever and allow them to crush those questions. And I cannot say enough how much I appreciate you showing up week in and week out and making this such a phenomenal experience for me. Chief David Rhodes I can't say enough. Thank you for spending your evening with us. And yes, thank you. Absolutely. It's late for an old man like me. The artist, formerly known as Smoke Daddy. That's what I'm gonna always say. That's awesome. I do love it. All right, thank you all. I hope the tones stay silent. Unless it is burning, everybody, stay safe out there. Dude