Weekly Scrap #202 - Mike Lombardo, Perspective through the ranks

Corley: His weekly scrap, number 202. My guest tonight is Mike Lombardo. He is a 45-year veteran of the fire service. Commissioner of the Chief of Department of the Buffalo Fire Department from January 2006 to January 2010. Mike was a member of the development team for the New York State Firefighter Survival and Rapid Intervention Programs. He's a two-time Firehouse Magazine Heroism Award recipient, 1988, 1994. The recipient of the FDIC 1999, Tom Brennan. Training Achievement Award. He has the degrees. He's got the qualifications. If you want a subject matter expert in firefighting, just look no further He's contributed to the National Firefighters, Fallen Firefighters documentary, Giving Courage, Line of Duty Death, Chiefs Speak. He's been involved in investigations, articles, you name it. he's a member of the board of directors. This is the the most impressive. I mean, member of the board of directors of the fire department training network Like there's nothing else needs to be said where he presents and developed the fire command program, currently operates with the Christiana Fire Department in Delaware and the East Amherst Fire Department in New York Chief Mike Lombardo, it is absolutely my honor to have you on as the guest of Weekly Scrap No. 202. Welcome, my brother.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, thank you very much. I'm humble. Happy to be here. Thank you very, very much for having me. Corley: This is a very big deal for us this evening because it's the first time ever that we've gone live and streamed to multiple platforms. all across and we're gonna have multiple people logging in to send questions comments and everything as we go through it so we're very very very excited about it So with all that being said, is there anything I missed in the intro or anything you would like to add that I left out? Chief Mike Lombardo: dad, two kids, both older now. 40 and 48. Corley: Love it. Chief Mike Lombardo: And happily married for 43 years. Corley: Brother, that is an accomplishment that is all on its own merits, man. okay, if you would audience, please get your questions ready for Chief Lombardo or myself. Get them primed, get them ready. It's gonna be a good scrap. Quick announcements. If you are not a member of the Vigilantes, go and become a member of the Vigilantes. FirehouseVigilance. com. It is the cool kids club. Man, there's so much going on there, and I won't even go into it right now because I want to say this right out the gate before I say anything. Birmingham, fire and rescue. it's it's pretty recent. It just recently. Jordan Melton, he has succumbed to his injuries. That's the firefighters that were They walked into the fire station and they shot those firefighters. And Jordan Melton has succumbed to his injuries. The other fighter, Jamal Jones, he is fighting, and we will keep him in our prayers. Magic City Truck Academy, OJ Cologne and Clay McGee, they are working hard. There's a giant raffle going on for the families. So go and visit them and be a part. There is no justification for this. There's nothing I can even say that even makes sense to make it make sense.

Chief Mike Lombardo: there something It just was a random crazy let's go to the firehouse and shoot somebody. Corley: So far that is what it appears to be. I don't know if anything else has come out of it. I don't want to speak that the anything I don't know, but for now it appears to be a random Oh horrible. But targeted at first responders but random. And so like the worst of every world. So But yeah, hit up Magic City Truck Academy, hit up Clay McGee, hit up OJ Kaloj, and be a part of that raffle for the families. So I wanted to get that out of the way at the beginning. So out The gate. Let's get the sponsors done. Keyhose. The hose experts. Check them online at Keyhose. com and follow them on Facebook. Affordable Drill Towers, home of the Affordable Drill Tower and the Affordable Standpipe Prop. It is firefighter owned and operated, pump and roll using the affordable standpipe prop. The affordable standpipe prop fits through most classroom doorways for standpipe theory, and then you can roll it into the parking lot and pump it. It comes with six standpipe valves that can be upgraded to PRVs or something custom to your jurisdiction. Call Steve 844-55 Tower or drop an email to info at affordable drilltowers. com. Port City Fire Training Anthony Rowett, man, one of my favorite people, one of my favorite brothers. Check him out and what he offers. Go to portcityfire training. com. And then finally, FirestationFurniture. com provides a complete line of quality furniture for your firehouse. Firefighter owned and operated. They understand the strain firefighters put on furniture and offer furniture that's built to last. Visit FirestationFurniture. com for more information. So there we go. Bills are paid. Announcements are made. We got Chief Mike Lombardo ready to field your questions. Chief, I'm going to read you a few comments coming at you. It says, let's go. Joe Govita says, new home, same scrap. It's hard to scrap 200. Chief Lombardo can do it. This is going to be awesome. Congrats. Hit the thumbs up. There we go. Looking good. Sounding good. Let's go. Three bugled firefighter checking in and taking notes from Indianapolis Lots of comments. Chief Scott Thompson said, looking forward to this. Thank you, Chief, for being here. And Jeff Stone said, Chief has the comfy chair ready to rock.

Corley: So there you go, Chief. Are you ready? I sure am. I'm looking forward to it. Okay. Everybody knows if you're on the scrap, I always send out an email that says, hey, what topics would you like to talk about? What do you want to discuss? And I love doing that. And then of course The audience drives everything, but one of the big things that Chief Lombardo sent back to me was he came up through the ranks and he has a lot of different perspectives to share. So I wanted to start there. and just kind of throw it to you. It's kind of a soft toss that you can take any direction you want, but all the coming up through the ranks and all the perspectives hit me Chief Mike Lombardo: So what I'm talking about a little bit is I do a class, I did it all over last year, all over New York State, but I do it other places too. Five points of command. Right away people think, oh, it's a chief scores And it's really not. And it's my little way when I became a acting battalion chief. I wanted something to keep my head straight to make sure I was hitting all the important points. And I came up with those five points. Tack in the fire, back up the attack, cover the exposures, vent, and search. Those five things are done. I feel pretty good about how the fire is going to go. And those aren't in order. If it was magic, it would be at once. Usually it can't be staffing-wise, but magically I'd rather it be at once. But those five things though we have to look at. There's other important stuff on the fire ground, right? Right? Forcible entry, laddering, but they aren't The objective. I don't ladder a building to ladder it. I ladder a building to get inside, to have a way to get outside. I force entry for much the same thing, right? It's not a the the end all the be all But attacking the fire is, right? And the perspective I'm talking about, at least in this context, is that it is for every rank. Like I'm the firefighter. How does attack affect me? How am I able to move that hose line in and get it to the seat of fire to put the fire out As a company officer, how am I finding that fire, getting my crew in, selecting the right line, and getting in there and getting that job done And then as a chief, do I have all these things being hit?

Chief Mike Lombardo: Is a good primary search taking place Are we getting the ventilation we need? Do we have lines in place not only to attack the fire, but to cover the exposures to back up the initial line? So all those people, right? All those members are looking at that the same objectives But they have a little bit different slant depending on the position they're in. On the nozzle, I know what I'm doing. On the backup, I used to always call them the roving linebacker It's the shittiest job on the fire ground that might be one of the most important. Right. And you really do believe at times, so as goes the backup, so goes the fire. Because the good the bad backup is the guy that's two feet away from the nozzle going, we're doing great. Well, I don't have any more line Yeah, yeah, you're doing great. Versus the backup, that roving linebacker. If you're luxury you have the luxury of having three people on the line, it's the third guy. who is, you know, dragging some line to the base of the stairs, going back outside, dragging some more, dragging some line up to the top of the stairs. shooting back down, dragging some more line to the base of the stairs, then dragging that up to the top of the stairs. You'll work your ass off. Right And yet it's critically important, but just not good. That's a perspective. And we have to train guys to understand, look, this isn't fun, maybe But it's really, really, really important because, you know, I always say if you're 12 feet short with the mile the line, you might as well be a mile and 12 feet short. I mean, it's Hard to come up with the 12 feet if it's just not there. Right. So that's that's really what the start of that is. That goes into training, that goes into operations, that goes into engine work, truck work, the work of the chief officer, everybody. Is that perspective of knowing I have my game plan, my incident action plan, tack the fire, back up the attack, company exposures, vent, and search? I have those things happening. I feel pretty good about the fire.

Corley: I love it. I'm gonna raise you some of the scrapping with a legend. I love that. Thank you. Scrapping with a legend. Chief has the comfy chair. I read that one Super excited for the new platform. More excited to hear the GOAT, Chief Lombardo. So there you go, Chief. Some compliments coming at you. Chief Mike Lombardo: I don't know what they're talking about, but it's very nice. Corley: Very nice. That's Scott Slocum out of Florida. No, I can't know what they're talking about this way. And Mark Alone said, backup does all the work, knob gets all the high fives. So that encapsulates it. Chief Mike Lombardo: Absolutely. Corley: And then Chief Scott Thompson said this. He said, where was it at? I'm trying to find it right here. He said that's a mega scrap. I'm trying to find, I just scrolled. But basically he said, ah, there it is. How about this with the next mega scrap? Lombardo, Pressler, and Salka So a lot of people chiming in on that one. All right. since you started. And you and I again I reached out to you and you sent me the the topics, but this is this is I mean 21 line of duty deaths Since you hired on and you were on scene for 10 of them, man, that's a that is a ton. I I don't know another way to say it. That that is a lot of heartache.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh, it's horrible. It's horrible I thought I had PTSD, but I'm too fucked up to realize it. Corley: No, it's not. I get it. I get it. I'm laughing, but I get it. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's very terrible. And you know, it shaped a lot of my career, a lot of things we tried to do. every time we think we are getting better, something happens We just just March 1st, we lost a young firefighter, Jason Arno. There wasn't one, there wasn't two, there was three events at the fire. smoke explosions slash backdrafts. And I've never seen two at a fire, no less three. and just mind-boggling operation. Crews had gone in pretty big, three-story, but probably 80 foot tall, 75 foot tall three-story building, very large commercial. When a the whole depth of a block And they had a a two events come out the front of the place. One was all fire, the other one was all smoke. And then there was one more on the number two or Bravo side of the building. And Jason was on the nozzle, got separated during one of the explosions, got separated Called a Mayday. Cruise got in. They had hands on them. There was a second and I have to check that. I don't know if it was the second or third event happened and the crew who had Jason didn't have Jason anymore and couldn't find him. Right. Sure. They got out, they came back in, they got him. Unfortunately, he succumbed to his injuries. Right. But just it it it's been in my career for a long time. I was pretty new when we had five guys killed in an explosion at a illegal radiator repair place in a four-story heavy timber building. And the place blew up and killed five firefighters, two civilians. And I was a pretty new firefighter and responded to that And it was you know, I was like, is this how this is always gonna be? But it was pretty difficult to deal with. But you know, we all push on, and I tried to make that, as it said, I was on the development team for both our FAST program, our RIP program, as well as our survival program. for the state, just trying to do things that, you know, could get us to be a little bit safer. Sure. Over the years.

Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, one of the things I realized like accountability has nothing to do with a tag. I mean it's great to have a tag, don't get me wrong But what I mean by that is truly being accountable, me as an officer, knowing where my crew is at all times, is a big deal that goes beyond attack. And I think that it's important for guys to understand that. And in 1983, we had that explosion, and it was difficult to tell where everybody was. rigs were blown across the street, you know, so on and so forth. And in 2009, we've lost two firefighters on Genesee Street in a fire in a deli in a bodega. And collapse of the first floor and guys went into the basement. And it was just as hard in 2009 to know exactly where everyone was. One of the things that happened at that fire, we lost Lieutenant Chip McCarthy and firefighter John Woman. But Lieutenant McCarthy was there. And at the same fire, Lieutenant Dan McCarthy's brother, Lieutenant Pat McCarthy, his cousin Firefighters Mike McCarthy and Tank McCarthy, or excuse me, John McCarthy and Tank McCarthy were all on scene. Wow. So there's a fire where there's five guys with the same last name, a couple of them related to the person who's the mating. So we just don't I don't know that we look at all those kind of little nuanced things beforehand. You know what I mean? Stuff's important. Where's Smith? Well which one You know, sort of important to know which one.

Corley: So No, you wouldn't even think of that. You wouldn't even I mean I mean honestly, I mean yeah Without a doubt, brother. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. So and a few in between. We had a couple of collapses. Lieutenant Jerry. we had a guy, Mike Seegan, who really burned to death up in an attic on the 4th of july. Donnie Herbert was a great friend of mine. We were firefighters together. When I got promoted out of the rescue and as lieutenant he took my spot And Donnie was in a building on Interpark Avenue. And there was a collapse. And when the collapse occurred, a couple of guys were hurt. They got them moved real quick. When the collapse occurred, they were on the third floor. The staircase and one of the firefighters on it went to the second floor. The stairs went on. Right. So they got Donnie out pretty quick, about nine and a half minutes. Got him going. guy who was a firefighter at the time, Joe Victor. He was retired as a battalion chief recently Joe gave Donnie mouth to mouth right up in the attic. And they got a couple of breaths into him. We got him uncovered. We got him down a ladder to the ground. And pretty quickly they had a spontaneous pulse, spontaneous respiration. But he wouldn't wake up. He was unconscious. And he was unconscious for quite a while. He was unconscious for nine and a half years. Whoa. And nine and a half years later in April of 2005, that was in December of 2000, or excuse me, 1996. In April of 2005, Donnie was at the facility that he was at for a number of years and raised his head up and said, where's my wife? I want her to come over here And they were pretty flabbergasted. Long story short, Donnie was awake for about 40 hours talking to people. There's three, four hundred people at the nursing home. no one would go home. And after about 40 hours he started, about 38 hours he wasn't making sense again. But before that, he was coherent, knew who everybody was It became a game. You said hello. And he said, hi Mike. Hi, Sandy, to me and my wife. And 38 hours he was still talking, not making as much sense. 40 hours he never said another word. That was in April of 2005 and in February 2006, Donnie passed away.

Chief Mike Lombardo: I was very, very, very, very pleased. I was able to put two of his kids on the they were appointed to the Buffalo Fire department his other two sons are both Buffalo police officers so good kids really good kids yeah that's powerful as a matter of fact the firefighters are both captains now Corley: Wow. There's a legacy. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. Corley: Yeah. No w doubt about it, man. James Michelinski said driving force. I know you had others like Chief Salka. Rob Fisher chiming in and said, sorry that I'm late to the show. On duty. Love the new platform. Mike is one of the legends of the American Fire Service. Looking forward to the show Me too, brother. I'm with you. Everybody, this is the first time ever. We got people from YouTube. We got people from Facebook. I don't see anybody from LinkedIn or Twitter yet, but who, you know Do they count? I'm just saying if they if they do chime in and leave a comment. But it's it's going great so far. Chief, you said I would like to talk about training and discipline from multiple perspectives The firefighter, company officers, chief officers, the department. the firefighters and the fire service. Yes.

Chief Mike Lombardo: So when I look at those five points of command, because I, you know, wind a lot of things around that, sort of running my career. But when I look at that, what do I need? I need a few things. I need training. We do for everything we do on the fire ground. I need SOPs and writing assignments. I talk to people all the time, they go, oh, we don't do that, you know And it's everything from we're volunteers, I don't get the same guys all the time. That's okay. The seat can still have certain requirements to it. It's a great benchmark in training, right? You can ride here now. Now you've been training and got enough experience. You can ride here now, right? So on and so forth. And the other thing I need is a good size up. But stepping back to training, I look at a lot of stuff different than I think a lot of people, certainly different than a lot of fire chiefs. You know, I think we've gotten pretty crazy with certification stuff and everything else. Speaker 3: Sure. Chief Mike Lombardo: I have some pro board courses. Do you have some pro board certifications? We have IfSAC and program. Or if SAC. Yeah. So you have IFSAC? So the IFSAC department came out and taught the class? Sure. They did or did you take it at your

Corley: No, no, no. They come out. Well, we also have OSU okay or OSU fire service training in our backyard. So right, so you do that. Chief Mike Lombardo: So like Pro Board Up my way. I have Firefighter 1 and 2. I did it for when I was retired and so on and so forth. But the thing is, what I always say is, you know, here is Send us whatever it is, I don't know, $25, whatever, and we'll, you know, take a test and we'll send you back a certificate. So, you know, Elon Musk Branson and Bezos want to colonize the moon. What are they gonna need? They're gonna need intergalactically certified firefighters. So you and I forget the scrap. We can get into that business. Send us 60 bucks. We'll have you take a test. There'll be something on oxygen, liquid oxygen, whatever. A couple of questions And off you go. Yeah, you're certified. Corley: There you go. Chief Mike Lombardo: Rubber stampers. Well, but more than certified, we're certifying you. Because who else it is? Proboard is guys smarter than me. They're making a lot of money. But I never had a pro board class. It was the same class you took in the state always And when I'm talking about training, I get upset. And this is very global stuff, is I talk to guys and they say, well, you know, we tell guys You know, don't do this, this, this, this, this, this, this on the fire ground. But you have to do them to get your JPRs done and pass what you have to pass. And I say, you know, if you are in rookie school and I went to rookie school six weeks, today they're 28 weeks. It's amazing to me. And they want the guy to be everything, right? A high-angle underwater bomb squat technician, right? They can do anything. And I just look back, where are we going? Right. Because I have guys that were telling, you know, like I say, your rookie class, let's say it's 14 weeks, right? And you have three things you tell guys, I know we learned this, but this isn't how we do it. Here's how we do it. You know what? That's fine. But if you have 12 week class or 14 week class and you have 103 things that you have to change, we have to go back and look at a different fucking training code.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Absolutely. And your department, the Moore Oklahoma Fire Department's training manual, is as relevant as anything. So I'll piss everybody off because you are Oklahoma. But I'll piss everybody off. But can we put up the door force picture, the cartoon picture? Corley: Sammy, hit us with the door force cartoon picture. He's coming. Allegedly. We'll see. Allegedly. Oh. Chief Mike Lombardo: So this isn't my opinion. That is not the direction you push the Halligan It just isn't, right? That is not the direction you push the halligan. That's like page, I think, 167 in the Ifstaman. Right And and again, across the United States, well, we have to do that. Well, what if that's not how you do it? Well, we'll teach them that and then we'll teach it the other way. Right. That's insane. That's insane. Don't do something wrong, right? Don't do something wrong. Why does that also today? Why does that picture work? Training one. Any guess? So that's rhetorical. I don't need an answer. But my point is that it works in training. Because if I push the doors on springs and the springs push back, real doors don't have springs. And I'm not bashing the door. They do a great job, these different companies that make these, and it's a great training aid. But having said that, that's not how you push. You push the halligan in the exact opposite direction And that's a big deal, right? That's it may not seem like a big deal, but it's a big deal. You know, we have standards, right? We have standards that we have to go by. I get in a lot of fights with the NFPA. So can you do the highway shot?

Corley: It's coming. Say when, Sammy. Chief Mike Lombardo: So I talked to places all over the country and they're like, oh, you know, we have to have our guys invest when they go to an accident. You know, really if 325 square inches of reflective material on your fucking coat. I don't know how much more you need. But I thought like the picture, they were worried about the guy in the black pants and black shirt who has nothing reflective on right. Right. It's just like we get caught up in stuff that is like crazy let's worry about what we're supposed to worry about. We still need to train. Those, you know, I I do pla I've told you I do classes a lot still, but I'll ask people and I'll ask you, Corley, are you a company officer? Corley: I well, battalion chief now. Company officer. Oh, you're a battalion chief? Yes. Oh, allegedly. Allegedly. Chief Mike Lombardo: Allegedly. So when you were a company officer, I'm the battalion chief. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: I can't not be in fucking chance. Fair enough. So when you were a company officer, I come in and I make it tough finding you. I go, Corley, I need you to do me a favor. I need you to do a search drill today, but you can't leave the firehouse. Because there's other stuff going on. So take your company.

Corley: What could you do? Right. We have we have certain signs that say no bunker gear allowed past this point that are plastered all over certain areas. So I would be Confined currently to my bay or my back pad or my front pad if I was gonna if I was gonna do it in gear So you're gonna do it in gear and what would you do with guys to limit their visibility? I mean there there's some Chief Mike Lombardo: I would probably use some wax paper at least on at least and seal their hood on backwards, right? Yeah, there you go. You know what? That's a great you set some tables up to make some objectives, whatever works. That's a great basic search drill that we could do all the time, right? So what's an advanced search drill? So I asked this all over the country And people say to me right away, what do you think the answer is? Rope search, large areas. Large area, white area, I go, you know what? Those are. But you know, I'm a little simpler guy. You know what I think makes it a really advanced drill? I start out, I have 175 or 200 pound mannequin Right? And then you're gonna do a search in heavy heat smoke and fire. That's all I have to do And you know what? That's an advanced drill. Oh yeah. All of a sudden. And it's what we do every day. We think we know how to do it. And you can't practice enough. You know, you asked me what's a skill that kept you going a long way? Crawling. it stopped me from falling in holes a couple of times. And I'm, you know, if I can see okay, I'm obviously not crawling But the other thing is I never found anybody standing. And I found quite a few people. I got a bunch of medals on my uniform for different rescues. But you know what? I more than once went in a room found somebody who people had firefighters had been in already. That's frightening. No, absolutely. You know, if you don't get on that double bed or bigger, no, you get a king-sized bed. If you don't get on it, you're missing somebody. You're missing somebody You're missing the gap between the wall and the bed. And that kind of stuff really, really matters.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Going back to the advanced drill, can we throw up the burn room picture? And it's up. Look at that. He's good. He's good. So the reason I bring this up, I had a friend that went to a recruit school for 28 weeks. And he was in a burn building with fire in it four times. We are doing to me at least such an injustice to young firefighters. I have a friend went through a recruit program and the fire involved in the program over weeks and weeks and weeks was Oh, and I'll forget the name, but I don't have to bash the company on here anyway, so I won't. But it was lights. It was this box. That had flickering lights in it. And you can buy these for a lot of money. And I said, oh, does it melt? You know, it's like, can I start it on fire? But it's just lights. And the thing is, these guys, guys and girls, graduate from recruit school. Go to a fire and one, they don't know when they should get out, but almost as bad, they don't know when they can succeed Oh, we better get out of here. It's hot. Of course it's hot. You've been in nothing yet in your career.

Speaker 3: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: So it's so important to me to be able to train in heat, smoke, and fire. The fire department training network where I do work, you know, we pride ourselves on that. It's street level training. And there's really not advanced classes, there's just advanced performance. Right. It really, really is, you know, and you can't do this enough. So the other thing I always like to point out to people and I talk about when I talk about training is to me maybe it's semantics, but I think there's a difference between training and practice And practice is a big thing too. So you and I go to a class, and they show us something, X, Y, Z, and it seems like a pretty good idea, right? And we adopt that. Or they just show us how we're going to the Minuteman load, just for argument. That's what they're going to go to. If we do that and three and a half weeks later we do it again, we aren't going to be real good at it. Sure. You know what I mean? We I did it three times in the class. How many more times do I have to do it? Like every day. You know, and so much runs together in my little feeble brain is at my age runs together. But Like people say, you'll see articles in the Fire magazine saying exercises that replicate Tasks and duties on the fire ground.

Speaker 3: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Going, well, if this exercise is like stretching a hose line or raising a ladder, why don't we just stretch a hoseline or raise a ladder? And then we'll get exercise in, but we'll also do what we're going to do with a fire. You know, practice. Yes. We don't even need this at the company officer or battalion chief level. I have to the firefighter level and up, even to the point of getting dressed. You ever watch some of these guys You know, they're putting the gloves back on. It looks like OJ at trial. I'll be with you in a couple minutes. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's like Jesus today, you know we have to practice over and over and over and over. And they get mad You know, the IFF, whatever. I don't mean it in a bad way. I think we all should be professional, but I don't think we're a profession. I think we're a craft or a trade. much more than I think we're this profession like a doctor or an actuary or a lawyer or whatever. I like that. No. We you know, I never saw that lawyer come home from work the way I look coming home from work. You know what I mean? I got beaten, you know, and so have you, whatever. So we have to train company officers. We should train every single day. I don't know why you can't stretch a line every day Right. So we went to EMS calls in Buffalo. We don't have ambulances or anything. It's a private company. So we just would go So when we'd go to an ambulance EMS call, if that was the first run of the day, when we were done, we'd go back to the rig, get dressed, and stretch the line. So it was the third floor apartment. We went to the third floor with a dry line and then put it back. Took us five minutes. But we got pretty good at it. I had a friend we talked about at least from Ohio And they did it, you know, they were down to 44 seconds getting a line and two guys at the door masked up ready with water. That's what you want to be. Right? I don't want to time you with a fucking calendar. Excuse my language. Oh, it's the internet.

Chief Mike Lombardo: You're safe. Corley: You're safe. Chief Mike Lombardo: I don't want to time you with a calendar You know, I want to time you with a stopwatch. Corley: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: And that's a big, big part of this, you know. And I went, I sort of backtracked a little. The one thing I would talk about too is a little bit is Standards because it alludes to the IFSTA manual thing, it alludes to the NFPA, you know, 325 square inches in a certain dimension you must have on your coat. And I'm not saying that's not important. However, do you have a tower ladder and more? Yes, sir. Where in the bucket, where are the controls, Chief? Front, side? No, they're on the side, yes. In the bucket. Yes. They're on the side. So does right and left go right and left Corley: Man, you're really challenging me now because I haven't been in that thing since we got it. But So here's the reason I bring it up. Chief Mike Lombardo: No, go ahead. I'll step back one. I have pictures of two aerial ladders made by the same manufacturer. With the turntable controls, they're aerials, not buckets. The controls are both on the right side, the officer side of the aerial. And one goes raise, rotate, extend, and the other one goes extend rotate raise. Could you imagine getting in a Ford going, well, this the one the gas pedals on the right Oh the one is Chevy. This one the gas pedals on the left.

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right? And we hire, I'm one of them, slightly dyslexic people sometimes. I don't want you to have the lady in your arms with one foot in the bucket, one on the windowsill going, Mike, move me a foot closer, and I got a 50-50 shot But fuck, I went the wrong way and you go and bloody death. But my point is that's not an NFPA standard. That don't matter Right? That doesn't matter. Right. And that annoys me. why in the world wouldn't those controls go in the direction of travel? Right? Right would be right, not up and down for right and left. And it seems like little stuff until it's the one time you're getting out of the bucket you want to move closer. And that's the kind of stuff that I get pretty upset about. I get upset too. I came from Buffalo, New York in 2006 was the second poorest city in America. Just like the Bills, we can't be number one in anything. But I in 2006 I was the boss, I was the fire chief, and I had a guy who on his own was on an NFPA committee. Paid for everything? Everything. Ground ladder committee. Anybody have a ground ladder with the hooks on both ends? He's really the reason why. Nice. Nice. But the thing is, so I used to try and get him time off, but he would do everything themselves. And I was like, can't the NFPA pay for that? So they'll pay for one fire prevention guy as a they call it a scholarship in certain standards. But like the fire and the others. So you know what you end up with, Courtley? You end up with a guy who is a firefighter But, you know, I work for an ABC company on the side. Right. Sort of like who I'm here for, but not really. Right. And What a system. What do you think? So in 2014, we're talking about almost a decade ago, what do you think the head of the NFPA made?

Corley: Oh brother, you'd be I'd be shooting I'd be ballparking and missing mildly. 300 grand? Too much That's a lot of money, right? That's a lot. I think that'd be too much, especially back then. I don't know. Chief Mike Lombardo: I don't know. Ten years ago almost, he made four point one million dollars. You can't let it pay for a firefighter to come to a standards committee meeting? What? God's honest truth, $4. 1 million. Holy shit. Everyone should know that. Oh yes, that might be the truth bomb of the night. Holy crap. Everyone should know that. 4. 1 million dollars ago Timmo ten years ago, right, right, right. He didn't get Okay, sorry, sorry. Sorry Okay. Crazy. Let me just I gotta look at one thing. I don't want to get it wrong. Okay, no, no, no. Yeah, 4. 1 million. They had a $207 million surplus, and of course they're tax exempt What the fuck? Of course they're tax exempt. And all I'm saying is that this drives the fire service. And a lot of manufacturers drive the fire service. I mean a lot when I got on a fighter well how many ground how many feet of ground ladder are you needing on a quint? Any guests? Ding ding ding 85 feet. What do you need on an aerial? Ding ding ding 115 feet What did you need on an aerial in 1977 when I started, would you guess?

Corley: More or less? Man, I'm trying I'm trying to guess which way I need to go here, but I'm saying less 264 feet. Woo! Okay, okay. I guess we're all. Chief Mike Lombardo: So the only thing that's gotten shorter is firefighters, not buildings. Wow. Who's running that? Us or manufacturers? Do you have a 50-foot ladder on that tower ladder? Corley: I've got to. I've got no, we don't have we don't have a banger. We don't. And I'm gonna read some of these comments that are coming the the standards are written and the ones who benefit the most are manufacturers. There's your lead-in for the scrap. Definitely have to get vendors off the NFPA. Sorry I'm not getting everybody's who said these. lombardo for NFPA president make firefighting great again. That's from Mark. Chief Mike Lombardo: I'll take half the salary. There you go. No doubt. Corley: Brother. Two million dollars. I'll endorse him and I'll just take a tip the bonus. No, amazing, amazing. Drop the Jeff Stone said drop the mic, pick up the pitchfork I have no idea, brother. You just blew my mind. Chief Mike Lombardo: So there is the one thing I would re- recommend to everybody, there is in the NFPA A open comment period when they change, make a new standard, whatever. And I would encourage everybody to try and get involved in that Because we can't fix it from within, but maybe we can have a little effect from without. And the reason I bring that up is because There's talk of a 1700 standard. So 1710 is the career fires fighters firefighting standard 1720 is the volunteer. They want to come up with a 1700 and it would be how you fight a fire from Hawaii to Maine. Everywhere in the United States, you do certain things. And that sounds good until you start to realize like there's places in the country that don't have a basement, for instance. Right.

Corley: Oklahoma. Oklahoma has this many basements. Exactly. And we're gonna get into basements. We're gonna get into baseball. I'd like to. It's a big deal. Chief Mike Lombardo: No, people bad. But no, but all I'm getting at is is that We need to be able to work on that. Corley: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: The thing I saw, you talked about deaths. The other thing I saw in my career that's been whatever. Challenging, I'll say. It's not all bad, but just challenging. It seems anytime a guy dies in fire combat, we carry three or four pounds more stuff Corley: I mean really it's it's No no and that and that that's a great state I mean that that's a powerful statement because no one wants to say that i in the in the wake of someone passing or or making the ultimate sacrifice, but it's the truth. Chief Mike Lombardo: So here's here I'll give you one. Here I'll give you one. somewhere over history, guys have run out of air and died in a fire. We all know that. Corley: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: However, having said that, do you know how much you can get a bottle? So we have 30-minute bottles. 45 minute bottles, 60-minute bottles, and now 75-minute bottles. So fatigue is killing us. We have 100 guys die a year, half of them die of heart attacks and strokes. And we're giving you gear that weighs five pounds more and SCBAs that weigh 20 pounds more in the interest of safety. And it you gotta step back and go, I think we're missing the forest for the trees a little bit. Yes. There was a guy, he was a pretty brave guy. I will defer to him anytime. There was a guy who was the b head of the Boston Fire Department, Frank Christian. And they had gone into bugger gear And he had proposed that ladder companies and the rescue companies could wear fire retardant pants, but regular pants, like the West Coast used to. Right. And then a coat and a helmet. And people were like, oh my God. And they found after they went to this program With bunker gear and everything, burn injuries went down like 35%. That's a good thing. What they missed though, well they didn't miss it, but what a lot of people miss The Boston Fire Department's incident of cardiac events went up 300%. Oh wow. I mean, I'm all I'm getting at is that like We have to make sure we see the forest for the trees.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Right. Is this really better for us? Or am I doing something that I feel better about it, but it really isn't doing much. Right. Buffalo, New York is Buffalo, New York is two and a half story frames. I mean we have 40 story buildings and stuff, but our fire problem is pretty big. 10,000 square foot wooden two and a half story frames, 100, 130 years old. Almost all of them balloon frame. Right, right. And in New York State In 2000, I think it's eight, they went to a bailout system. Now, not a rule, not a standard, it was a New York State legislative law Meant well came out of Black Sunday in New York City. Sure, sure. Meant well. Right. I vehemently was against it. We had always given guys 50 feet of rope with a hook we did the single slide, wrap it around you, no not, no nothing, just put your hands together. Do you know what I mean? Corley: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right? Worked fine for a million years. And now we were going to a bailout system that was multiple pounds. It was, I said, I'll have a guy hung up on something with the bailout system before anybody goes out the window. And I it's just a case of we gotta make sure what we're doing really is gonna make sense. Right. I mean we could get into fire development stuff for the rest of the evening, but you know the only thing I will leave you not leave you for the debate program but about that is this topic this topic is you know one of the things I see is guy was doing a class the other day And I was sitting in watching it. I still like to learn stuff too. Right. And he had paper and wooden paper, class A combustibles, 8,500 BTUs. polyurethane, 12,000 BTUs, polystyrene, and I might have those off a little. Sure, sure. 27,000 BTUs So I don't discount or deny that at all. But what I say in my classes is, because this guy was going on and on, fires have changed, fires have changed, fires have changed. change so i said in my classes i asked people when a fire's changed they go last 20 years i go so this is god's honest truth We're the bravest, right? Is it aren't they called the bravest almost everywhere in the country, the firefighters?

Chief Mike Lombardo: We're the bravest, right? We're not the brightest. I'm a doing a class, I go, when was 20 years ago? Guy raised his hand, he said, God is my judge, he said, you know, 1960s, 1970s Corley: Right. We are not the brightest. Chief Mike Lombardo: Okay. You didn't fail the fire thing. You failed like third grade. Right. We're in trouble But the reason I bring it up is because I hear that every day, 20 years ago, articles Podcasts, everything. Fires changed 20 years ago. Now I think there's things that have changed. I think things like windows, some of the construction things have changed But polyurethane was invented by a guy in the Dow Cup Corporation in 1931. Oh wow. They didn't invent those and then sit on them saying, let's sit on them for 70 years. They'll be a game changer. I'm old I've never sat on Cecil and Hemp in my life. You know, people talk about a legacy living room. Legacy was 1955. And here's the crazy one. I think there was more plastics then. Oh wow. I remember being a firefighter walking into houses And a real common thing in the 1970s and 80s was to have a guy have a 500 album record collection. Right And the other one was four huge shelves along the wall with VCR tapes The fire you'd see it from Oklahoma. Right. Right. You'd see the fire from Oklahoma. Today, everything, everything you ever, every song ever written you can put on here. Yeah Yeah. Right? Every song you've ever written can be on your phone. Yeah. So really, you know, what are where are we at? One of the things that upset me a lot about the Fire study stuff was it took us forever to do what we did forever. They finally did do our base operations, but it was well after it all started.

Speaker 3: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: So all I'm getting at is is that we've changed everything we do some places I have guys that tell me, oh, we would never open the roof. We're really, we're missing the point. I go, why? What would happen? They go fire'd come out. It had turned to fire. I go, and why is that bad That's a good thing. I open that roof. Now I'm not talking about the engine isn't even here yet. Corley: Right. Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: I get the windows on the top floor and the fires on the top floor. It's gonna be better It really is. Oh, no, no, you don't. And so I'll go one further. It's science, right? And I'm not a scientist. It's science, right? But how about this? Can you remember, and I'm thinking it's 25, 30 years ago, a different science that told us different stuff So again, rhetorical for everybody out there. Who remembers positive pressure attack? Right? That was science. Don't take the hose line off first. Take the fan off, put it in the front door. First thing. And I was like, gee, that sounds a little crazy. And fire's knocked down. I get it. But First thing, put the fan in the door. Absolutely. They'd show videos and they'd have all their telltales and their scientific equipment They'd show the guy who was able to walk in and get the victim. And I always used to be like raising my hand like, but what if the victim's on the other side of the fire? Right. You turn the fan on the, you know, it isn't a little square box house. It's a 4,000 square foot, right? Good size house. With the victim here in the fire there, right? You blow the fire that way. It can't be good for them Right? I'm VES and it can't be good for me as you roast me as I'm trying to get in the second floor window. So it's relative All of it is good. It's good to have science look at a lot of the stuff we're doing. But understand that There's a little bit of everything to it. I find it interesting. It has seemed to have slowed down like put the curtain up in front of the door and you know don't ventilate anything has seemed to calm down a little. bit. Right. Which I think is a good thing.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Coordinated fire attack, first of all, is a good thing. But secondly, is not new. We took a line in as they took the line in. Other guys were getting the windows. They weren't getting the windows when the engine wasn't in the block. They were getting the windows when the engine was coming in the door. But I'm happy then. People say, oh no, not till they I see water coming out Like I had guys tell me, I wouldn't vent a window till I see water coming out. I go, they're okay, they're done now, they don't need you anymore. We can close the ladder company You know, I don't know what you're doing. No, I'll take the windows. I'd much rather something happen in front of them than behind them. Rather than crawling all through this place Right? It's black, it's hot. We put the curtain up and it got hot enough to get everything going. We're in trouble, right? So I'd rather do that. And again, it's not It's not 100% by any stretch. But, you know, and people say, well, you don't ever transition. Well, we didn't call it that, but we certainly pulled up the places that were sailing That we were hitting in a window to keep it off the exposure. Now we have a lot of exposures that literally you can't walk between

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, they're 100 years old. I don't know how they built one of them, right? The one I figured out. The other one, there ain't room. I don't know how you put the siding on it, you know But so we pulled up, we absolutely used a hose line on the exterior to knock down that outside fire. Right? But we also then got in and put that fire up. You know, I've seen places that, oh no, no, we're gonna hit and it's smoke up there. Well, that's not quite the same Because you know people say, well, where's the fire? Well, it's in that room. I go, well, I've been doing this 45 years, and it might be in that room or out in the hallway or across the hall or in the basement coming up a void space or a lot of places, but right from this street, I can't tell you exactly where they And that's what I think gets missed a lot. I really do. So I'll get you, no one will be watching by the end Corley: So brother, you're killing people are watching, people are asking questions. I love it, man. You get into tactics, you start getting into this. This is this is the bread and butter. I have to throw this question at you. Vigilante question of the week. I always ask my vigilantees, that's my private group, questions they want to ask of the guests. So I posted you like a week ago and said, what questions do you want to ask him? And everybody put their questions in. But the one that came up that I really wanted to throw at you because you have a good man, such a perspective on it. But it comes from Bradley Valiant Court. He said, what advice would you give to a firefighter that is on a volunteer fire department and then gets on a full-time fire full-time job and is getting negative vibes from some of the vault the colleagues at the volunteer fire department

Chief Mike Lombardo: So getting the the problem is at the volley house? Corley: Yeah, at the volley house. Chief Mike Lombardo: After you were you were at the volley, then you made it yeah so I think that the answer to that is you can't worry about it I mean people just get jealous. What can you do? yay for you. Right? Yay for you. I've been a volunteer firefighter. I've been a career firefighter. There were people, we had less of the volunteers getting upset. As I'd have, you know, guys, oh, you shouldn't be doing that. You're taking somebody's job. I go, well, there's no paid guys yet, so I don't think I'm taking anybody's job. where I live, you know. and and you know you just gotta look at that. I'm sort of a purist I'm there to go to the fire and put the fire out. Right. So consequently I'm not, yeah, I just never cared about that stuff. And there's many things like that. You know, I Got promoted to lieutenant. I had seven years, which isn't a tremendous amount of time, but is I had been to a lot of fires. I had spent five years in the rescue. We went citywide to every fire in the city. So why went to see fires

Corley: Nice. Chief Mike Lombardo: But people said, well, you know, I I get asked the same sort of thing, like, what do you do if you have senior people? I go, well, I use them to death, right? I use them like crazy. Let's help with this drill, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. all that stuff. But always remember when everything else is said and done, I'm still in charge. You know, I mean if you're if you have, you know, I'm I'm I have seven years on Corley, you have 19. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: And I come to your firehouse as your new boss. And you have questions, oh well, do you know hey listen, you know, I wasn't on an engine that that long. We're on an engine. Kind of tips can you give me Hey, when we're training with the guys, I want to make sure we're squared away. They're as good as you are, right? But if it just becomes a push every single day and it's just unfortunate. You know, this is not a great millennial level tactic, but at some point it's every other Thursday they fucking pay you and I'm in charge here and if you don't like it you gotta find someplace Else to go. Nice. Because no, I get it. There is a point where no, they're paying you to be in charge. One of the things that always amazed me, and I saw it the most as the very top was everybody gets this idea that I think I think that there's the good side and the bad side right And we had truck committees. And I always just tell people, I said, you know, one of the things about being a boss We had truck committees that Corley come up with this idea on the tower ladder bucket, something to be bound. Sure. And Tom came up with a completely different idea. And wonders never cease. They're both good ideas. You know, the problem is guys always think, well, one's stupid. No, they're both great ideas. Right. What it comes down to? At some point, someone, one being the word, has to make a decision. Right. They come to you in in Moore, Oklahoma, as a battalion chief. The answer they're not looking for is you to say after you they give you their problem, well, what do you guys think? Well we fucking talked about all that.

Chief Mike Lombardo: We came to you for an answer. And understand as a boss, you're gonna make some side not happy Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: That's going back full circle to the to the gentleman that asked the question. You know, some people aren't going to be happy, but just keep doing what you're doing. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: No one can fault you. You know, I was a in Buffalo, I was always into the job. I was a fire sexual, right? That's what we call them. Right? But You know, and I was always into the job, but I never said everyone else has to be. One little thing I will say, and I'll piss some more people off. And some of these people are my friends. So I got friends that talk about them Right, you've seen them. You seen that? For them. For them, yes. Them. Or it's worth the risk, Kurt, right? Corley: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: And all that stuff's good. And those are good motivational things. And if that works for you, great. I'd like to think, particularly, you know, as a career professional firefighter, I could just get you to do your job too. You know what I mean? So the thing I always say to people is to keep vigilant of is I've seen not many, but I've seen guys in my career who were into everything. Except doing their job. But they were into the stuff at the fire and they were into this and they knew about that and they knew about this. They couldn't weren't worth the fiddlers fucking a fire. Now there weren't many of them. Then I also had guys, I had a guy in my crew, Chuck Sardo. he was on my team at the FDIC. I did the live burn there for six, seven years Right. Chuck was on my team and people say, Do you go to the show? Meaning at the FDIC, we'd always stay a day and go see the floor. Sure. Because yeah, I saw that Mission Impossible movie, you know He'd go to the show. But Chuck wouldn't go across the street if the world was on fire. I mean if they were fighting the fire, not if someone needed help. Yet he was a phenomenal fire Right, people would say, what kind of rig do you have? Because a real big long one, red, you know, but knew how to operate it better than anybody in the crew You know, and we can't lose sight that sometimes the guy really good at the job may not be into it, and the guy really into it may not be that good at it Having said that, it would be wonderful if I could have a department full of guys that are raring to go rah-rah rah-rah.

Chief Mike Lombardo: We had 750 people in Buffalo. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. You know, and the other one that I always take a different tack on and some people think I'm crazy, people say, well, guys here just for a paycheck Well, if you provide enough to earn that paycheck, I'm perfectly okay with that. You know? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. You know what I mean? I'm perfectly okay with that Corley: 100%. 100%, man. I love it, brother. I love dude, everything you said. And and I will say, in in defense of for them, you know, and Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh no, no, I don't have anything against them. Corley: No, no, I know, I know. I will say that that's directed at the people that are really just into it. And and and you know it's worth the risk. That's directed at the people that are really into it But if you know firehouse vigilance and it's the never-ending fight against complacency, because complacency doesn't give a shit who you are It it just it will reach up and grab you and drag you down into it, you know. Chief Mike Lombardo: And so how about this? How about battalion chief quarry moor? Oh and who's the fire chief

Corley: yeah, I've got a fire chief. Chief Mike Lombardo: Who is it? Oh Fire Chief Smith. Yes. They talk to the guys, you talk to the guys. Hey, listen, be ready. You go out on that run, all your gear on, ready to go. You pull up, you never know, right? That's good stuff, right Do you agree? I mean I I think so. I was always the guy. I'm older. We'll leave it at that. But I'm still in the volleys and a run comes in, I'm dressed. Right on, everything's on. Right on. To this day, to the automatic alarm that we go to three times a day But the reason I bring that up, how about institutional complacency? So I see fire chiefs who say, I want my guys ready, right? Because complacency is hard You are right. I mean I always say I'll talk to a recruit class and I'll say, you know, you have no the word complacency should complacency shouldn't even fall into your vocabulary. Larry, you know, for the next few years, right? This is all nudie. But you have nine years on and You know, you're having trouble at home and you don't know how you're paying both the electric, the gas, and you know, whatever bills. Absolutely. You're going to the automatic alarm at two in the morning that you've been to twice already this shift And it is pretty hard to be vigilant as B. I mean it's we're human, right? What I get upset at though is the department doesn't want you to be that way And yours probably doesn't do this, but I've seen small departments. I go, get an automatic alarm. Who do you send? And they go, well, if it's an automatic alarm, I've seen places. Well, if it's an automatic alarm without a phone call, we send the police So inevitably, especially when I do bigger classes, a lot of bouncer firefighters. A lot of bouncer firefighters, sometimes there will be a couple of police officers. And I always ask I go, bank alarms? Usually bank robberies? They go, no, almost always a false alarm. I go, really? They go, yep. Yeah, the automatic silent alarm at the bank is almost always a false alarm. I go, so do you ever sit with the police chief and say, you know these bank alarms? We ought to have the fire department

Corley: Go. Right. Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Right? Where did the engine go? And they'd go, and the guy usually by then goes, what are you crazy? Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: We don't think a thing is sending the ambulance or the police car. to the automatic alarm. That's our fucking job. What are we doing? Right? I love it. I love it. What are we doing? we had I got out of a place We went to the big medical center. It's a big trauma center in Buffalo, huge hospital, 15 stories, big complex. And we would literally go there easily five times a day between alarms. Then we'd go for helicopter landings too. It landed on the roof. They had way to go up. Right. And I used to think we'd stretch a line and I'd go, what's the chance that the helicopter crashes where we are? Right? Right. Right. A hundred yards from here, we can't do anything. You know. But having said that, I got dressed. It was my first assignment out of rookie. I got dressed every shift and we'd go to ECMC and I'd get off the rig and I'm just, you know, I'm telling stories out of school. But almost everybody coming in on that run w on a 85 degree day was in boots. You know, we didn't have bunker pants in those days.

Corley: Right, right. Chief Mike Lombardo: We'd have boots and a helmet on And I remember in a year and a half, they were all false, except for three. One was a match, one was a room. A crazy guy started the room next door on fire. One was a mattress in a basement that was a tough fire. Okay. One was this connected building that was a monstrous compactor Compactor is probably the size of a you know a house. Right, right. Among us. And but every time I was dressed stretching a line while everyone was scrambling Wow. And it is complacency, right? So if I could talk one more, because I'm a rambling idiot who's old and I forget Yo brother, we're loving it. I'm telling you right now, everybody's loving it, me included. But one of the things I always talk about search So the them and and it's worth the risk, all good stuff, really, really is. But the one thing I do here sometimes. So I had a couple of guys talking one day and I said, and we do a a station at FDTN where this is exactly it. So you're my boss and we're crawling down a hallway.

Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: Doing a search. We're on the truck. Me and you are searching. And the they said the lady's at the end of the hallway. And we almost think we can see her. And as you go a couple more feet, you drop. You're unconscious. Well, I don't know how to tell you. I'm getting you out. And I've had people tell me, oh no, no, no. We signed on for this. I'm going for the lady. And I go, well, I'll never go in a fucking burning building with you again. Because I go places You go places that are scary and dangerous because we know somebody's going to come and get us. And the thought that you know that is happening is a little crazy. So the other thing I have too that I integrate inlet and I use it in classes is I like to think that there is like almost everything else we do, there's strategic search parameters and procedures, and there's Tactical search. So what do I mean? So I'm a battalion chief just like you. Standing in front of a three-story garden apartment. Do you have those? Corley: Oh yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, tons of them, right? Oh yeah, they're sprouting up like weeds So got a good fire on the second floor and a woman runs up to you. You got one engine on scene. Woman runs up to you and says, Like two kids are trapped on the third floor.

Corley: Right, right. Chief Mike Lombardo: So as she says that, here comes ladder one. Right? Or in more, what's the latter number? Oh yeah, ladder one, ladder four. Oh, oh wow, I'm so happy. Some place I go, it's like 263. Okay. And you get 262 of them, they go, no, no, no, just one of them. I'm just kidding. No, we got the one, two, three, four. We good. We're good. So ladder one's walking up to you and you're like, thank God. And about to tell them, where are you telling them to go Right? Yeah. Third before the lady says her kids are up there. That's because you were about to tell the officer that, right? And I was a hands-on guy. I'm Italian, so it comes naturally. But like if it was really dicey, you know, people say, did you do what radio channels? And I go, no, I put my hand on Corley's shoulder. Said she said her two fucking kids were trapped up there. It's shitty. Get going. Go. Right? But keep. But the thing is, so as Corley and Ladder One are walking up The next thing before I can say a word is Mayday, Mayday, Mayday. Engine one to command. We're on the second floor. We're trapped. Where's the truck going now? Because my thing is, sorry about your kids, Lady. I mean, I'm not going to say that, of course. Sure. Truck one, go get them. Sorry. And a lot of people, oh, I'm going to get the kids. Well, I'm not. I will as soon as I can. And as soon as we get more people, but engine one's trapped on the second floor, I gotta go get engine.

Corley: Hey, and here's the deal. I I I'm not gonna lie to you, Chief. The first time I ever got to see you speak was in Wichita, Kansas, a couple years ago. And I've never seen you before then. And I haven't seen you since then, and other than tonight. And you you kind of Laid out the same type of scenario, and I realized, holy shit, what would I do in that scenario? You know, it was a it was a it was a unbelievable gut check for me to say he's right. Chief Mike Lombardo: It's it's the difference between tactical and strategic. Strategic, where I don't like it, where I'm all for the them and no no no no without a doubt where i'm a hundred percent for them is when i see departments have statements written before a fire that talk about when you wouldn't search I'm gonna not talk about now there's rooms I can't get in. I'm not Superman. If it's fire out of every inch of it, we gotta put knock the fire down. But are we gonna search that room? The answer to me is not right yet But we are going to search that room because we have to be able to get in. They have to knock it down a little bit. We just aren't superhuman. But we are getting in there. We're not leaving that Grammar to be found by the bored up guy or the fire investigator or guy.

Corley: 100%. And to be and to be clear, and to be clear is that we're talking about an extreme situation where it is my guys versus. It's an extreme situation to say the ultimate, how are you going to think about it? Chief Mike Lombardo: And what I would say is most guys fortunately will never face it in their career. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know what I mean? But it should somewhere along the line you should think about it. Corley: Think about it. Run it through your run it run it through your decision-making algorithm, whatever that may look like Chief Mike Lombardo: So the other one I always get in trouble for is risk benefit. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: So I always say, you know, risk a lot, save a lot, risk a little, save a little. I don't know what a little is That's me. Fair enough. I don't know what a little is. Is that your finger? Is that your toe? I don't know what a little is, but I always ask people, do you do it every time? They go, absolutely. I go, I bet you don't. And they go, no, no, no, no, we do it every time. I go, really? And I go, I think we do something else. I think we do risk aversion. We wear an SCBA. We put a seatbelt on. 25% of us get killed coming and going. Put a seatbelt on. I got on. The first place I went to, or the second place I went to was Liner 14. We had a 1968 American La France tiller. It didn't have seat belts. Like people don't believe me. They weren't on it. Right. There's no such thing. Right? Right. But the thing is, today, I had a friend, it's a few years ago now They were on an aerial ladder. It rolled over onto the aerial, so it went twice, right? And then burned. And all the guys had seatbelts on. And we're fine. Banged up, but fine.

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: It works. We avert risk. Things like washing your clothes and your hood. I didn't have a hood when I got on, but we didn't wash it. You rinsed it off, you know. But we do those things today, and they're great. They do avert risk. Right? They really do cut down our chances. Then there's absolutely five, ten Maybe 15% of the time, particularly you as a battalion chief, but company officers and everybody else has to go, no, you know what, we're not going in there right right what i mean about doing it every time is what is the second leading cause of firefighter deaths i just said it coming and going right drive driving going So second most, 25% of line of duty deaths are coming and going. So a run comes in and moored, your next night to. Right? And you're sitting there and the call get I don't I would assume something like makes some something makes some noise. Everybody runs and gets dressed, the lights come on, the doors go up. And be when that's happening, you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on. It's dark out Are we gonna go? Do you do that? No, absolutely not. But it's 25% of our debts. Right, I'm with you. And the point I'm getting at is none of us do that. Right. Right. Right. Right. There's things we just take for granted. We don't do a risk-benefit analysis on every run we go to. We do them beforehand and we do things like wear of gloves and a mask when we have a sick person. Right. We didn't do that before. I remember when I got on, it had blood all over me.

Corley: The mark was if you did CPR and had blood on your face. Yeah. Yes, the mark of honor. Chief Mike Lombardo: So we do a lot of things today which are good to avert risk. And then there absolutely is time where we have to say, absolutely not, not right now. But I can't, but I can't put that in the system beforehand. Corley: Chief, you are 100% amazingly entertaining to talk to, but I want to include the audience, so I'm gonna interrupt you and say No, no. No, no. I love it. I love it. That's why it's so hard to do. McGinn said, ramble on. I love it. And this is what I want everybody to do because this is the first time ever to have multiple streams. just put in there I'm on Facebook put in there where you're where you're watching from geographically along with Facebook or YouTube. I don't care. And just do that. So it'll be fun to see how many pop up. But that being said They said ramble on I love it. Steve Frankenfield said I'd listen to this and he put it in quotation mark rambling old idiot for hours Scott Thompson said there are bosses losing their mind right now screaming, don't listen to the scrap. I love that. Scott Vedekin said in all caps, truth Woody from Woody COD said nuclear bomb drop. Woody COD said bomb. So he likes bombs. Andrew Peter said, I tell my probies that listening to the ramble of a tenured member is gold in the coffee pot at midnight. Pour the late-night coffee, and you'll be wealthy. Jeff Stone said, nobody wants to hear the truth, Chief. Big difference between a mayor's chief and a firefighter's chief. I'll take, I lost it. Oh, everybody responded with Facebook and YouTube There we go. I tried to catch it up, but amazing amount of responses. Chief had a guy tell me he was in a class where they told him, yeah, there's so much going. Chief, yes So many people posting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. There it is all over the world chiming in from Facebook and YouTube. We'll look at it. Chief Lombardo has a way of looking at the most popular Fire cliche and from another angle. There's levels to this stuff that comes from Scott Vatican. Thank you, brother. All right. I'm going to throw some more.

Corley: This is coming from the audience. And there's a lot of questions, Chief. I haven't even touched the first one yet. But Marco, I Marco Isome says, what was your largest incident and can you share a few lessons learned? Big question, I know, but I'm throwing it at you Chief Mike Lombardo: So probably the largest top, but the most complex thing was we responded to the explosion in 1983. Probably about 160 buildings damaged, 20 or 15 or 20 of them on fire. civilians trapped, firefighters trapped, firefighters killed. And the only reason I'm at all hesitant is I was a pretty new firefighter. So I operated, but I just sort of did what I was told. You know what I mean? We we jumped off I jumped off the top of the rig with our turret demountable at that time off the engine. Another guy in my crew was in rookie school with me, grabbed two two and a half. We ran forward. There was a big church on fire. But I didn't comprehend or understand the gravity of it. Like it was on Nightline. Remember Nightline? The TV show? Oh yeah. I never saw it But and there was no cell phone, so we couldn't contact our families or anything else, you know. The news reports were worse than the truth. But I've been to some other major operations, as you can imagine, some fun ones. We went to a One of the things we were very fortunate, I thought, in doing, is we went to Canada usually once or twice a year. So it's nice to go to another country. Sure. One time we went, they had a 700-foot ship coming through the canal, the Welling Canal, and they raised the bridge, and it was one of these bridges. Right? Straight up and down. Lift bridge instead of this. Right? Right, right, right. And the lift bridge goes up, 27-foot sailboat goes through, lift bridge comes down, 700-foot freighter hits it

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Nice. What I find the most amazing thing, guy passed the drug test. So the bridge keeper He goes, God is my judge. I didn't see the big one. But it ripped the top, you know how big freighters are the the wheelhouses at the back. Right. Right? It ripped the whole wheelhouse off. And then it burned into burst into flames. Oh wow. We operated at that with some companies. We had another one. We had a guy stuck in a ship. they were salvaging the ship, and he had a huge 50,000 pound anchor chain fall on. Oh wrap around them. So every time the links were probably that big, one link. So we went up from Buffalo. It took us about 40 minutes, 35 minutes to get there. And we had about in about two and a half hours. All he had was a broken ankle. So it was pretty good. Oh wow. Yeah, that's a good outcome. It was a great outcome. And a great example of, you know, we ended up cutting With a arc air torch, a window and what they call the chain locker to get through to him. We were basically able to untie his shoes, and that's what we got him out. How we basically got him out But we had plan B was we were putting five-foot steel rods through the chain pile and then putting come-alongs. on them pulling. Just to keep it. Otherwise you just pull one length. Right. Right. Oh, that makes sense. The ultimate was we had a couple of guys at the far end of the pile just cutting away manageable pieces and we're gonna go all the way if we had to. But I always used it as a great example of It was a great plan A, plan B, plan C. Wow. No, no, no doubt. And the only thing I always say is, and I'm a big procedures and writing assignment guy, like I told you earlier, some people say, oh, we don't have the people. to me it's it brings chaos to the fire. Or it removes chaos from the fire.

Corley: No. Chief Mike Lombardo: But you know, it's very, very, very difficult to have a good plan A or plan B if you don't have a plan. If you don't have plan A in the first place, that we always do, plan B will be a bitch to come up with on the fly. You know, I see places that, you know, they tell the guys going down the road, you grab this, you grab this. Come on, we can't get better where we're have tool assignments at least in certain positions. Right. Right. Just little stuff. You know, just little stuff. and it's amazing the places that don't do any of that. So no, I love it. Corley: Now one thing I want to get to, and two two reasons I'm going to it right now. One I live in Oklahoma. We're known for we're known for one thing, especially in more Oklahoma. It's where the planes. Tornadoes come in and we they level us. That's what they do. Second thing is we're the river bottom. We have no basements, period. We have no basements. And in my jurisdiction, we have no balloon frame construction. So I'm blessed in my tactics if that makes sense. I'm very blessed. Long story short, I want to talk about basement fires because so many people had a lot of questions about basement fires. And I have to honestly throw my hands up and say, I can't help you. But I have one of the most prolific persons who might have dealt with some basement fires in his life. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to throw basement fires to you. Okay and while you do that, I'm going to leave you here and I'm going to hit the head. I don't know if you need to, but I'm going to leave you alone and let you talk I'm good. Okay, it's all yours. Take it away.

Chief Mike Lombardo: So I would appreciate so talking about basement fires. So what's our basic basement fire tactical plan. Stretch a line to the egress point of the basement, usually in the kitchen of a private house. In a commercial building like with stores, usually at the rear of the building. None of them are absolute perfect, but usually. Right? get a line to there, protect that egress, and either get down the stairs, put the fire out, or protect it while someone can come from another way. So having said that You know, how are we doing that? Right? Going down the stairs, it's a concerted effort. It's not like, well, I'm taking the line downstairs. Yeah, you are, but you got to think about it. You know, you got to have enough line to make it to the bottom of the stairs. You have to make a concerted effort. We're going down the stairs. Here we go. And I'm going with the nozzle When I get to the bottom of the stairs, I have to get out of the way. Why? Because if I don't as my boss or whoever the backup is comes down They're going to be behind me and I'm going, ooh, it's better down here than it was a little bit up. Where are they? A little bit up. Their heads just about at the ceiling height of the basement. If I don't get out of the way Right? I gotta get out of the way so that they can get down and we can operate. In both those, it's a tough, tough, tough fire. Particularly for places don't have a ton of them, it's a horrendously tough fire. But even places that have them all the time, a lot of people operate on them and don't give a lot of thought to them, they really, really are a dangerous operation that we run into. we look at we look at basement operations, you know, what are you doing? So Corley just talked about no no No balloon frame. Corley also, oh, sorry about that. Corley also, you said not a lot of balloon frame also A lot of newer construction, like 70s and up.

Corley: Oh, I'm here. I just got back. I'm sorry. You hear me? I hear you. I hear you good. Chief Mike Lombardo: I heard 70s and up. Yeah, so Do you have a you said not a lot of balloon frames, so do you have a lot of construction 70s and up? Corley: We do, we do. Almost everything in my jurisdiction is 1960s forward, mainly 90s forward, but yes Even the 60s. Chief Mike Lombardo: So if you are in a place that has basements, you don't, I realize, right, but you have that same kind of construction. Understand that every basement You're going over is probably constructed of lightweight, right, engineered trusses for floor joists, right? Right. Corley: No, 100%. Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, I go into places in Buffalo, New York, and literally there are trees in the basement. You still see bark. Wow. They're 220-year-old buildings, you know. they will last a long time, but they'll be tough. So the bigger thing about basements before we get into specifics Can we put up the basement slide, the the data slide? It's up. So take a look at that. Everybody, if you can see it, there's a couple things about it. The first thing is that it's just done in my kitchen, right? This is not a scientific thing. I try and keep up with basement fires If the slide is mostly the last 20 years, mostly the last 20 years. with the exception of a couple outliers. One is nineteen, and I want to get the right year. One is nineteen ninety-five, I believe Yeah, the Seattle? Yeah, so there's not even that year that year there was quite an outlier year. There was eight. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, ninety five

Corley: Yeah, because you had Seattle, Pittsburgh, and FDNY all with the eight. Yeah, there was eight, ninety-nine. Chief Mike Lombardo: So I tried to keep it roughly two decades. Then of course Columbus, Ohio is in there in 87. Anybody if they've ever heard of the John Nance drill? John Nance was a lieutenant in Columbus, Ohio. Fell into a commercial basement of a department store Fell into the basement. This wasn't a nine foot eye ceiling. This was a twelve or fifteen foot eye ceiling. And multiple attempts to get him out Yes. And then the other one of course is twenty-third Street in nineteen sixty-six in New York, twelve guys. But all the way to there was one literally a couple of weeks ago in Leonardtown, Maryland There's tremendous, tremendous comparisons with these where they are The same thing happening over and over. Guys pull up, get off the rig, walk in the place, fall into their death. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Frederick County, Maryland, Howard County, Maryland. 20 miles apart. a couple years apart, both Chevron houses. You know what I mean? Like the Chevron stripes, Big McMansions. Both hit by lightning. Both first guy in the place fell in, died. Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: just tough And the list goes on and on. So the reason the date is important, you see that, right? And people may go, well, one guy, one guy, one guy, two guys Right, 14 is three guy four guys in 2014.

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: And people may not think that's a big deal. So There's a site data not drama. Are you familiar? Yes. Corley: Yeah, Bill Carey, absolutely. Chief Mike Lombardo: Bill Carey. So one of the things interesting is For the last roughly 25 years, the firefighter combat line of duty line of duty death percentage is about 4. 5 a year. In other words, out of roughly a hundred guys who die a year in fires Corley: Four and a half. Chief Mike Lombardo: About four to five guys die fighting a fire. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Many other ways we do it, but fighting a fire. Corley: Interior firefighting operations. Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: So that's pretty startling, right? That's if we didn't know that, if we didn't really look at stuff, that's pretty crazy, right? So now let's add one more thing. And Corley, it's great to be with you. How many parts of the United States don't know what a basement is? Corley: Absolutely. So you don't, right? Chief Mike Lombardo: I mean you know what it is. I don't mean that. Corley: No, I I I I don't have to worry about it tactically Strategically. Chief Mike Lombardo: And a lot of the Florida, a lot of coastal Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas, a lot of the country doesn't have basements. So now we start to realize 4. 5% are traumatic combat line of duty deaths. And then if we also put into the mix that a whole bunch of the country doesn't have them, it's a frightening, horrific cause of death for firefighters. I mean horrific. you know we have guys literally get off fire trucks, walk in and fall to their death and die.

Corley: Right Chief Mike Lombardo: Literally. Colorado in Ohio. Two firefighters go in, a firefighter captain actually go in. They start down the kitchen. The stairs from the kitchen. They get to the base of the stairs, the officer's smart and says, This is not good. Let's go Went up to the got all the way to the top of the stairs, okay. Took one step in the kitchen to go out the door and fell back into the basement and died. Right. And the story goes on and on and on So the reason I bring it up, it's not even new. It's not just new modern construction. It's happening in old construction too. It's always been a huge killer of firefighters. So the things I look at, again, I told you I'm a procedures guy, right? So I always tell firefighters, first and foremost, you call Mayday, right? This is Firefighter Smith to Chief Moore or excuse me I I'm I'm trapped right low on air, right? Made in made in Regardless what the fire is, not necessarily a case, right? The next thing I'm gonna tell you is, Chief, I converted my own harness Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: I undid my waist strap and I put it between my legs. I will save frighteningly maybe two minutes, maybe a minute. Really great cruise 45 seconds. But it'll be a while. I've seen guys take a long time conversion.

Corley: Oh yeah. That conversion is brutal in low in high heat, low, low visibility Chief Mike Lombardo: And if you're getting somebody out of a basement, you will curse yourself to the end of the time for not Converting that because a lot of guys are like, this is too hard, let's just go. Right. The guy will come out of the place naked. Right. CJ comes off, coat comes off. Not that you want it to, but it just does So I've been teaching for a while, guys. Go out, you call a Mayday, you're talking to guys about Maydays, tell them they're low on air, they're in trouble, but they can reach, convert your own harness. Another thing, we have a couple things. We have a Charlie or three-side report. We have an outside vent firefighter. You may have a chief officer. You may have half a crew. Whatever works to do that 360. Part of our 360 is a report of what the conditions are, the building dimensions. So it's two stories in the rear, it's three in the front, Chief, just so you know. Right? That's a big deal for you. Yeah. And then I'm very anal about it. Is there a basement? Is the basement on fire? And is there access to access? Yes, yes. Because you may be the first to see that. Now a 15 inch by 60 inch, five feet off the ground. We may use and stick a line in, but that's not access. Access, I'm talking about is a Bilko door, it's an actual walk down, it's a actual slider, right? It's on a grade, right? Right. That's what access is. But I want those every time. The other thing we do in Buffalo, New York, in our procedures, first do ladder company officer shell. So shell means you have to Not maybe if I don't want to. Not if it didn't look like I needed to. No, shall you have to. shell check below grade for fire. Now do you think that's because we're the brightest fire department in the world Or is was it, it's downstairs, it's downstairs, get the fuck back the light out, back the light out, back the light out. Because we did that enough times to go, you know what? Yeah, let's we miss these sometimes.

Speaker 3: Let's stop missing these. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, I always tell guys, we cheated. Guys, I always say to older guys, you know, it was amazing. You guys went to fires and you guys did stuff that was so different and blah blah blah blah blah And I always go, well, you know, I always said, hey, that fire this morning when we were getting off went really well. What you didn't know is we were fortunate enough to have three fires that night. The first one sucked Second one was better and the third one we were polished as hell. But some of that comes from just having the ability to do it again, right? Not four weeks later because there's just not another one fire right right yeah that basement stuff is a big deal company chief or the truck company officer it takes no time pop the door everything by the way corley in western york everything has a basement Everything everything. Oh my god, yes. Corley: I tell people I tell people all the time, I'm blessed. I don't deal with balloon frame. I don't deal with basements. Like I I don't know what else. I have wind. That's what I have Flying cars. Well yeah, sometimes. Flying cows and flying cars. Flying cars, sometimes flying houses. But now here's the deal. I don't I I'll be honest with you. I've interviewed a lot of people, Chief, and I'm proud of it, and I'm humbled by it. But I do not often get a 45-year veteran of the fire service to come on here to interview. So I want to ask you this question and and It's not one that was really planned, but I wanted to throw it at you and it's what in your 45 years has been And you're still going strong. That's the thing. It's not like you're the you it's like not like this is all in the rear view. You're still going strong. What's been the biggest change you have been surprised by Throughout the decades.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, so negative me. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: I will so when I got on R I don't know if it was a year after I got on. We got Scott 4. 5s. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: They were 19 pounds. Okay. 19 pounds. They were amazing. Because we had the old steel tank with the elephant trunk. Right? Remember? Yeah. No. Yeah. Regulator on the chest. And they were like 19 pounds. I guess the surprise for me 45 years later, I thought 45 years ago That by now I'd have a little thing like from fucking Star Trek I'd put in my mouth and have all the air I ever wanted. Right. Who knew today the SCBAs at my firehouse weigh 37 pounds? Is anybody beyond me flabbergasted? Corley: Right? No, no, no. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Chief Mike Lombardo: But the other thing too is And again, I came from a poorer place, meaning fire department-wise. That's fair. But the other biggie was gotten a little out of control but still a great thing was radios when i got on company officer handling that's it nobody to fucking talk to they were like taking on the else you know I was on a truck we'd split in two and I guess I could write him a letter you know but we didn't have a radio I mean the guy I used to go and it wasn't like technology wasn't there I'd go to the mall and like there'd be three janitors all converging on where a kid threw up. You know, Tom, someone threw up in front of Jens. Okay, Bill, I'm on my way to the bucket. Okay, I got the map. And I'm going to fucking fires where people's lives are at stake. No, we don't have any. So radios have been good. We do have to watch because we have so many now people just want to talk And that's always an issue too. But radio is probably on a positive side, along with thermal imagers. Both are pretty advanced things. in reality of what they can do. What always bothered me, we used to have four channels, now we have 500 and I don't know if we got any better. You know what I mean? Last little thing on basements, I want to say. Go, go. Another SOP I wrote for Christiana. was our basement fires the pump operator first do so step back not basement fires we go to a fire Right?

Chief Mike Lombardo: Two and a half story frame. Looks like it's on the second floor, right? First two engine gets they stretch a line. Pump operator gets some water to the line and gets their feed set up And the next thing the pump operator does on that engine is take a folding attic ladder, put it at the front door. Not when it's a basement fire. Every fire. Every fire. Because you won't be in trouble at the fire that you knew was a basement. It'll be the one that survives you. There was one line of duty death guy made 17 calls on the radio. Hey, if you just slide a ladder down here, I think I can get out. Hey, just drop a ladder in here. Most people never heard them. That's the only thing about radios. So many people have them. You know, Fred, did you bring the dog in the canteen? You know, You know, Chief, where do you want us to park the ambulance? Out of the fucking way. I don't know, but not not that you should be calling me on the radio to ask. Corley: Thank you for that. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yes. But And all I'm saying is, but yeah, this guy, you know, we have our pump operator put that folding ladder for the, he felt the floor opens up, maybe we can get him.

Corley: Right. Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Time does that. Corley: No, absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. Chief Mike Lombardo: And making it a procedure takes away that, oh, it didn't look like a basement. Yeah, that's the one that'll come and bite us. Right. Corley: If it looked like a basement fire, you're prepped for it, right? Chief Mike Lombardo: Exactly. Exactly. Corley: Yes, I love it. I absolutely love it, Chief. and I don't anything you want to bring, please let me know because I'm just throwing stuff at you right now. I wanted to ask you about the 45 years, what surprised you? And I also asked you at After 45 years, still going strong, of course, what things have we lost along the way? Like what surprised you, but what have we lost along the way that we need to bring back? Chief Mike Lombardo: So I look back now and then and this is tough. It by no means is it everywhere. Sure. I don't know I'll really get in trouble. I see guys in pretty big, pretty good fire departments. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: And I'm going to be crucified, but and primarily because of EMS. You know, people always said to me Did you always want to become a fireman because of emergency? I go, no, when emergency came out, I was like, oh, maybe I don't want to be a fireman. I don't want to do all that medical stuff Right. Fortunately in Buffalo, we went to fires. We didn't, you know, like, here's a band-aid. oh, you lost your arm. I'm sorry. Sorry. Well here's a bigger band-aid. Right. Exactly Johnny and Roy, you know. But so so but I do see In defense of those guys, I'm not saying by any stretch EMS is wrong or anything like that, but what I am saying is way beyond the fire service too, it's broken Now there's a place that's doing eight, nine, ten thousand runs for an ambulance a year.

Corley: Yes. On bullshit. Chief Mike Lombardo: And it's, I mean, my son's a paramedic And like we always talk about this call and that call. One of his best was he gets called, they go, the guy goes, he go, you know, what's the matter? And he goes, I got sleep in my eyes You know, like the little Yes. Yes. Corley: And it's no, it's okay to say it's bullshit. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh my god. And another guy calls and and they're not outliers anymore. No, it is they're the reality. Corley: You get me fired up, Chief. Chief Mike Lombardo: Well, the point is is that and it's broken beyond that. So the City of Toronto is a separate third service, right? Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: Medics. And the city of Toronto is big. A lot of people don't realize. If it was in the US, it'd be the second biggest city in the United States. Right at all. Four million people in a relatively small area, pretty. And Their issue is wait times. And their record was like 22 hours. Like three crews, switch crews at the hospital standing next to a stretcher. Three entire crews. Worked your whole day, stand next to the stretcher, worked your whole day, stand next to the stretcher, worked almost your whole day. It's insane. And the thing is it's way beyond us because it's broken. Like the nursing home can't get a bed, so the hospital ICU can't get a bed, so the ER can't get a bed, so you can't get them off your stretcher. And it's it's a real real, I mean it's not little and it's not pretend. And then like you say, the BS. No It's yes. It's it's a big deal.

Corley: It is a complete loss of mission focus. I'm there for you. If you need me to make your heart beat By doing this, I'm there for you. I am, I am, but I am not there for your toothache. And that is not the reason I signed up for this job. And it's okay to say that. But we need people to beat the drone. So anyway, sorry, Chief. You got me fired up. You you got me going. Chief Mike Lombardo: What does come with 45 years is a wonderful pension. Fire department's been good to me. Yes. And the a certain amount of I really don't care. So this year we had a horrendous winter in a little bit. western New York's real funny. We have what's called Lake Infects now, you might have heard of it. But we had I live above Niagara Falls. All right. Now in the East Amherst, where I still am a volley, they had 80 inches of snow. 8-0 and 70 mile-an-hour winds for three days. We had 48 people killed in the blizzard. Frozen duck in their cars, horrendous So I'm there. I'm this old man. We're trying to push our rigs out. Our rigs are getting stuck. So we go on this one run. So we get there. And this guy has like Oh, I got strep throat. And I go, call fucking Tuesday. You know, I'm like, I really, he goes, are you gonna get a stretcher? I go, nope, you're gonna walk, maybe to the hospital. Because I don't know if we can get out. Right. It's like it's a disaster. Stay home. You know, it and you know, unfortunately, like I always say we need a concerted effort, hospitals, doctors, EMS. But the problem is what happens when you call a doctor, what's the first thing that they say the machine says?

Corley: Oh yeah. If you are having an emergency, call 911. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, that's it. Every time it almost becomes if anything doesn't go well with this phone call. Call 911. That's it. Dude, you just nailed it. And all I'm saying is I see people leaving the fire service because routinely, you know, I just can't do this the rest of my life. life and it's tough and and I just I don't know where it goes. I really mean that. I just know where it goes. Corley: No no you be no no you you are spot on and the and I think the only antidote I can throw out there and and the one I want to I will I will do this on the scrap each and every episode is get fire focused. That's why we exist. That's why it says fire department. Like I don't want to say, I don't want to say this the wrong way. I'm here when people have medical emergencies Fuck EMS. Chief Mike Lombardo: So the other thing is someone else can do something. Like in Buffalo, an EMS call comes out. There's a private ambulance. I mean we go too, but if there's a fire going, we have a step-down program. If we have a multiple high enough or more than one fire, we stop going to EMS calls other than cardiac arrests Yes. And you know what? The rest of them don't miss us. Right. I don't mean I know I sound like an asshole. People are like, No, you're not an asshole.

Corley: That's the problem, is you're not. It's the truth. It's the truth and people need to hear it. So anyway, yeah, F taxi rides. Thank you. all right, sorry, man. Chief, you got me fired up. I can't believe you got me fired this fired up. This I blame I blame Mike Lombardo 100%. It's like a drug. Yes. All right. I always love to ask my guests if there is a book that people you think firefighters should be reading or book or books. That would only limit you to one. Chief Mike Lombardo: So I still like some of those almost all those Leo Stapleton books. Remember Leo Stapleton from Both? Oh yeah. Yeah, Both. These books weren't tactical books, but really were Like they were quote unquote novels, but they really had tremendous messages and in a sort of entertaining way There's a lot of, I mean it's so hard to pick on stuff. Blood Champo just wrote a great book on tower ladders, did a great job. It's it's I don't know how you pick one. I haven't written a book. I don't plan to my only thing, I have a thing called the Fire Archive. I don't know if you've ever seen it I'll send you a link to it when we're done. Absolutely. I worked for a couple of guys, Jack and Harvey Supple. So to step back a little, my dad died when I was two years old. Okay. I come from a long line of very short-living people. My brother was 57, my mother was 60, my sister was 61. You know, no one lives long. I'm on borrowed time. I don't know if we'll make it through the interview. But before I die. But but I was the kid who hung around the firehouse Right. So Harvey Sumpel was a brand new battalion chief. He came up to the 7th Battalion. He was there for like a year. And he said, oh, come on down to the 3rd. Real busy battalion. Right. Buffalo. third battalion so i went down i used to take the bus down i was 11 years old i take the bus wow right i'd ride and i'd ride till like 11 30 the last bus was at midnight i take the bus home you know People thought I was crazy and maybe right, but but then I went in the military, I rode with Harvey for a long time.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Went in the military, he wrote me every week, here's what's going on, blah, blah, blah And I took the test. He ended up my first battalion chief. And his brother Jack was my first division chief, citywide tour commander. And they were, I knew they're both passed away. Harvey died. A number of years ago, not too too long after retiring. But Jack died two years ago, December 7th, 19 or excuse me, 2022. 2021, excuse me, Jack died. And They were, I mean, more than mentors, probably the closest thing I had to a father. But they were also big buffs. They went to New York all the time. Jack and Arby both took pictures also in Buffalo when they were off duty. So I've been I've been converting all these slides to electronics and I put them on this Facebook page the fire archive and like I have like 1926 water tower that they have in action in New York City. You know, there's so much stuff that's so tremendous that I don't think people realize it's tremendous. Right, right. New York's Tower Ladder One, the first tower ladder ever at a fire, right? I mean it's just Amazing stuff. And they had like probably 50,000 slides. So I'll be doing this for a while. But it's pretty neat.

Corley: No, that's awesome. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, I put up two today. One is two guys, black rubber coats, no stripes, tin helmets. Going in a top floor window and it's ugly. And they're gonna like hold their breath a little bit, you know, and try and get their nose on the floor. You know, I said about crawling, you know, what is the skill? Right. I I sit I see guys it was really hot we had to back out you know it's amazing but two feet lower it It really was survival. Corley: Right, right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Honestly. No, that's awesome. You know? Corley: And how do you how do you translate that to people who who don't experience it Chief Mike Lombardo: I so I go back all the way to the beginning when we were talking about training. We have to take that back. Speaker 3: Yes. Chief Mike Lombardo: We have to have people go into a fire or into a training burn and go, fuck, that was hot. You know where you can survive, right? FDTM, we pride ourselves on that. I mean I always say have you been in the National Fire Academy Corley: Have you? No, no, no, me personally, no. Chief Mike Lombardo: National Fire Academy, they have a subway station mock-up, they have a ship, they have a 747, they have a row of stores with apartments above the burns.

Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: Burn building. But the travels forever because it's in England. We don't have anything in our national fire camp. Corley: I wondered if you were going there, but I loved it. I loved it. Thank you. Chief Mike Lombardo: Now we don't even need to go anywhere Right on. England's National Fire Academy has pretty advanced shit. I'm just saying we almost like, that's a disdain, like we're above that. Corley: No, no, no, no. But I want to I want to bring something up with you, Mike, right now, which is you got a shirt on right now that says FDTN. I love, love, love Jim McCormick. I've never been to his his facility. I know, I know. But I want you to talk about just briefly what I I wish I could, yeah, I got a I got him within arm's reach, man, right here. Like. Hey, basically players, who wrote that? Oh yeah, maybe somebody. Chief Mike Lombardo: No doubt. So the network started, I think, in 1998. They started out with one container. Jimmy was on my team at FDIC. That's how I met him. And our burn program is still what we used to do. We're anal about stuff stuff when we let a fire it's we're lighting we're lighting we're light we check every company engine one engine two ladder one ladder two or whatever we're doing Okay, we're lighting, we're lighting, we're lighting. Let's go, let's go, let's go. And it may sound simple, but I one guy was doing We had a guy come to help and he's going fire in the hole. I go, don't say that. Oh, why? You know what that I go, I know exactly what it means, but I don't want that's not what we say here Right. And we have a lot of those things. People would probably hate us, but we have a lot of those things. But we have, I think we're up to 15 prop buildings, one six stories tall We have basement fires, we have hoarder fires, we have search operations, and we do a number of different classes, like just to illustrate, we do a fire camp in the spring and the fall. Right. Three days of six sections, right? Half day, half day, half day, half day. It's all skills. And it's forcible entry, search basements, quarters, writ, and survival.

Speaker 3: Love it. Chief Mike Lombardo: And you go through those. Then a different class, we usually run the same way once in the spring, once in the fall. This year I think we're running a couple in the fall. Is combat, it's called. So that one you come for four days and it's half day each, but you're either on an engine or a truck, and you'll go on 105 responses. They're just like responses at home and 35 to 37 good work and fires. We have car accidents, the whole thing. Wow. And the thing is We have people, it almost becomes humorous. We have one run, guys come, it's 10 East Lane, right? They come, there's street signs, the whole thing of the place, right? And these guys come and they're putting ladders up and guys get ready to be us. They go, what are you doing? Well, you know, this is what you want us to do, right? I go, this place on fire, and they go Well no, but we we thought you wanted to do that. I go, would you do that at home? And I go, no. And I go, then go investigate. It's a false alarm. Don't you have those And they're absolutely shocked the first one they go, oh, we thought everything would be a fire. No, you wouldn't make it if everything was a fire. Right. Because most don't make the 37. Right. A lot are like, we're done.

Corley: You know, love it. Chief Mike Lombardo: But it's it's just an interesting thing. We have a rescue company school. We have one class on designing building and operating container-based props We have one is just fire training, it's called, and it's how to operate within a fire environment with students, how to watch them, how to take care of them. You know, we work a lot on realistic stuff like in the combat class. So if I'm watching the fire with a line, right? Because we still have a safety line, watch the fire. But if you came searching, you know, I'll say, this is engine six, we got this corner, but I heard somebody call for help towards the front. Okay, and they don't know any better. You know, we do a lot of things like if you've ever seen the containers, we'll have containers like a T. But where they meet, we put marine grade plywood a couple feet each side bent over the seam One, you don't tear your gear up, but two, you don't know where you are. You don't know you went from one container to Wow. Corley: No, that makes sense. Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, one of my favorite things in in, and I know you're in Oklahoma, so I'll be my house will be bombed, but one of my favorite things in IFST is How do you show a room's been searched? Do you know the latest? The latest is the latest is the But the way you show room search is you close the door.

Corley: Okay, I was gonna say like there was a time when it was full of mattress in half and and oh so we'll get to that. Chief Mike Lombardo: So it's all right So I always said, you're my captain. I'm new. Been to some runs, but I'm going to a fire tonight. You and I are on our way, mutual aid. It's a three-story gar apartment house. It's a real weird place, center hall, stairs in the middle. Mike, I know this place. Chief needs to search second floor. There's four rooms on each side of the stairs when we get up There. Right. Okay. Mike, you're going to take the ones on the right. I'll take the ones on the left. I'm only that far away. Don't worry. Okay, Camp. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. so up we go. And 30 seconds later, you're searching room, and I'm back Mike, did you get the other rooms? No, someone must have already got them. The doors were shut. So my point I bring up is that like did we explain that? So then what it used to be, the last one Carry your chalk. Remember get your chalk out of your fucking pocket? Right? Corley, I searched this room. I'm gonna get a beer after work. If you can read a note I write on the fucking door, what do we not have to do? Surf perfectly clear. Get your pot chalk out of your pocket. Stop. I mean just stop. It's just nonsense. Used to be Turn the mattress in a you. I have a California kink, you're a big strong guy. But come on over, that'll launch you in the next week

Corley: If you do get the view, if I get give give me three give me three firefighters so I can show this room has been searched. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, it's just and there's so many things that I know I'm a negative guy. I apologize But there's so many things that we just are taught as a matter of fact. I was taught that. No, no, me too. Me too. When I came on, you know, I was always told, put your hand on the wall, swing the tool. I do just the opposite. I put the tool on the wall. Because I'm sick of finding something with the handle of the X, putting it down, putting my hand over, going, what is that? Right. So I search with my hand, I get just as much reach, but I'm searching with my hand instead of the tool. And you can feel it It's just little stuff. But yeah, so FDTN, pretty good place. I think we're we're doing thousands every year now of people through a thousand to between one and two thousand people each year. So it's a pretty good place. I think we're the I call it the real National Fire Academy. It is the National Fire Academy

Corley: It is the man, I think that is the proper term for it. People call it the Disneyland for firefighters who love it. Chief Mike Lombardo: It is. It is Corley: Yeah, that is it, man. I I'm gonna come someday and do at least the battalion chief thing because I don't want to take somebody's spot that needs to be crawling around in smoke and stuff, but I I want to do it And I know Jim, I could call Jim and say, hey, I really want to come. But anyway, not the point. It is Disneyland for firefighters. All that means that we need more like it. Yes, yes. What I mean is that needs to be our fire that Instead of being a sarcastic, that's our National Fire Academy, that needs to be our fire academy. Chief Mike Lombardo: So the thing is too is One of the things that people come back to me on is, yeah, but every county has one or every state has one, blah, blah, blah. I go, listen, there are guys in this country that would have to go 500 miles to get a live burn facility that's decent. Corley: Yes Chief Mike Lombardo: You know, really. And people, the East Coast is a little bit spoiled. Well that we built another one in the South Abbott County because we had to drive 15 minutes. So I mean they have But I go a lot of places are not like that. They have a lot of traveling to do to get anything And also it should be advanced enough. I mean, I would think certainly after 9-11 that we would see the need for that. TEAKES, great place, TEAX. But again That's the fire service, you know? That's the fire service. So all right.

Corley: I'm gonna send out a challenge to everybody still watching. You this has been one of the most amazing, like steady audience participation things. So I'm sending it out. Facebook versus YouTube. Just shout out where you're at and whether you love Mike Lombardo or No, I wouldn't even ever say that. But here's the thing, Chief. We have a thing we do on the weekly scrap, and it it's it's been since the very beginning. It's called the Five Questions for Firefighters. And then we we I asked him for about 100 episodes, and then pretty much everybody had answered everything about the five questions, so we changed it up. It became the next five questions. And then after another hundred episodes or so, we we have the five questions versions 3. 0 or the 5q3, so to speak. Basically, there's no wrong answers. It's just your opinion. And so what I want to know is I pass out the points, the audience helps me, there's no right answers, it's just your opinion. And so are you ready for the next, next. Five questions for firefighters. I'm ready. Let's do this. Okay. We kind of touched on the this one earlier because we we kind of just touched on it. what is the skill? That has carried you through your fire service career. Single skill.

Chief Mike Lombardo: And I think I mentioned it already. Corley: You did. We mentioned we kind of we kind of glossed over it, but I wanted to throw it at you. So go ahead. Chief Mike Lombardo: And everybody thinks I'm crazy. Oh, if I can see my feet, I can blah blah blah blah. I never found a victim standing up. And you know what? I've seen too many people missed Over my career, all over the place. Read about them, saw them, the bored-up people finding them, the fire marshals finding them, whatever. And There's a place where for your safety and for finding people more is or as importantly, obviously your safety is important But just as important is finding people. And like I said, the ultimate example is I see guys go in a bedroom and sort of gloss over a bed. You'll miss, you can miss a family in a pink-sized bed You know what I mean, if you're on the floor and just reaching. So yeah, simple as it is, crawl. Corley: Crawl. Chief Mike Lombardo: Turn your leg up through. Say turn your light on. Off. Off. Everybody talks about head lights. They're great. In real heavy smoke, turn them off. You'll see a lot better All you do when you turn it on is you get a ball of light in front of you.

Corley: This is what I love, man. Chief Mike Lombardi, like Chief, before today, in fact this morning, we never talked before, right? Right. That's fair. No, I never talked to you before. I love the conversation we had this morning. I love the conversation we're having today. I got to see you speak a couple years ago, and what I've noticed is you are the Guy who stands up and says, hey, what about this? I love it, man. I absolutely love it. It challenges my own thinking. And it's it's fantastic. And so Absolutely max points on crawl and the people are agreeing with it. Reflection, great answer, never thought of it that way. Mike, yes, absolutely Mad respect for Chief Lombardo. That's the comments coming in. I absolutely love it. And that's the max points on number one. Number two, by the way. Last week was the first time we did the five questions number three, version 3. 0. So this week you are the second person ever to do the five questions. Version 3. 0. Number two, what is the most important? And I put it in quotation marks, soft skill to possess in a leadership position

Chief Mike Lombardo: You gotta do everything your guys will do. Say it again. You gotta do everything your guys will do. I never ever ever asked anybody to do something I wouldn't do. I always led from the front. to include all the way to when I was the fire chief, I'd sneak out to a ri rookie class and all of a sudden I'd come up behind them quietly at the end of the day doing push-ups with them And they go, do you see who's behind you? The instructors. And I'm like, you're fine, you're fine, just keep going. Right. But it does matter. And I always said, you know, my job is to focus on the next emergency. People said, well, you're the fire chief now. You don't go to the next emergency. I go, you're absolutely right. I don't. I go to multiple alarms. That's it. I go, but the difference is I'm still focused on the next emergency because that's how I put the budget together. That's how we do staffing. That's how we do our capital purchase program. You know, there's many things we're doing. And to do them right, you focus on the next one. Wow. And stop with the nonsense. Because there's a lot of nonsense we can focus on. Focus on the next run. Right? So I could get in trouble with that one too, but we won't.

Corley: And here's the deal. I'm just I'm watching chat right now, and the sheer number of max points going by just completely reinforces my own heart and soul when I say this is the easiest In 200 yeah, George, max dot frickin' dot points. this is the easiest max points I have given out in 202 episodes. Brother, thank you for that answer. Max points for number two. Question three. What is your favorite fire service tradition? Chief Mike Lombardo: So I I I I don't know if it's fire service meaning the official side of it. But I still, and I lived that way when I was in a company, I still love to come to Moore, Oklahoma, and stop the fire. Corley: Ooh, I love it. Chief Mike Lombardo: And hi guys, how are ya? And could you show me around and shoot the shit, whatever, have a cup of coffee And I've done that in Venice, Italy, and I've done it in, you know, Reykjavik, Iceland, and I've done it all over the United States. You know, I always tell people, teaching, I learn more than any of them they do. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: I do a class, but I'm talking to somebody about this, that, and the other thing, and it's spectacular. You know, I've learned so much in my career quote unquote teaching because I just was exposed to so many people in so many different places, you know, and There is more than one right way to do what we do.

Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah, that tradition of brother or sisterhood that we can, you know, pretty much I always used to kid, I was talking to a guy from New Zealand who was riding with us once in Buffalo. And I that's about as far on the planet as you can get And all kinds of things. They worked the exact same schedule we did. Two days, two nights off four. In the furthest point in the earth, right? Right, right. I said, you know, someday a thousand years from now. There'll be some firef firefighter from Alpha Centuri who are land and go beep beep, you know, and then they'll be like doing the exact same shit we did, you know. Corley: What do you want to eat for lunch? Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. I I just that that I don't know that that's an official part of the fire service, but just that that we are open and and everyone's not that. Cops don't do that, you know, doctors and nurses don't do that. Yeah. You know, my wife's a nurse. She never said, let's go visit that hospital on vacation. But I go to the top of the firehouse. Right, right. I love that. I love that

Corley: Brother, I I I absolutely I love the fact that you tied in aliens coming in from another planet and compared them to New Zealand. I'm not sure that's what you actually did, but that's what I'm saying you did. Max points for number three. Easy max points. Great conversations tonight. never heard of this man before. That's part of what the scrap is giving to the fire service. A sense of history, tradition, and meaningful comp continuity through listening to these men. 100%, man. Man, I love Chief Mike Lombardo. If you haven't heard from him or of him, man, 100%. Just welcome to just a whole lot of wisdom. Number four. I'm ready. Who are the four people you would put on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service? So mine might be a little bit different. I honestly I would be surprised if it wasn't. I'm happy about it. Let's see, let's hear it. Chief Mike Lombardo: so Two would be people just to me, and that would be the two people I talked about earlier. Jack Seppel and Harvey Semple. Doesn't mean a thing to you, but I will tell you a real fast story. I apologize for running on like

Corley: Go. Hey, I'm telling you right now, people are wanting to hear you run on, so go. Chief Mike Lombardo: But I'm Captain of the Rescue. I was a firefighter there, got promoted, moved around, went to Truck 11 for a bunch of years, came back to the rescue as captain. And I'm working one night. We have a new guy as lieutenant on the truck. There's an engine truck and rescue now. Big house, 14 guys on the ship. shift. So about 5. 30 in this lieutenant on the truck, it's his very first night tour as the lieutenant. So earlier in the evening he came in and sat the crew down and these are my expectations. You know, they're pretty typical stuff everybody promoted does, right? So About 5 o'clock in the morning, very, very cold, maybe 5. 30. Sun's just not even up, but a little rays of light We get a box not far from the firehouse. So the truck with the officer, they're out the door in like a split second. Right. Let's go. You know. Right, right. I'm not gonna be late. So They go out the door, we're behind them, but we're a little bit, the engine's behind us, and the truck pulls up on location, Winslow, two and a half story frame, heavy fire conditions throughout, transmit us So there's no exposures. There's a field next to it, field next to it, field behind it, street. Okay. So we pull up, and as we pull up, the lieutenant runs up and goes, Cap, Cap, Cap We didn't need a second alarm, did we? They go, well. And as I say, well, this whole place goes. That's an eight-foot pile of rubbish. Right? And he goes, fuck, now we definitely don't need a second water. But he engines late, a couple of big lines going in a hydrant. So the division chief who's Jack Supple gets there And he goes to the lieutenant, he goes, Lou, he goes, second alarms are cheap in Buffalo. What he meant by that was we can send that extra alarm, and it's not like the city is threatened, you know. Right He goes, it's okay. And he gives every company on the second alarm a little job and then says go home. But it's like You know, engine 37, give 33 a hand pack in that five-inch, then you can take up.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Okay, Chief. And he does that with everybody. Now he could have gone, we didn't need a second alarm here and destroyed this guy But instead he gave everybody a little order. Nobody's the wiser. And this guy, he built him up instead of ever doing that. That's leadership. Anybody could go, we didn't need this. What the what are you doing? You know, and not at all. And he fortified this. guy instead of making him like a nervous rack, you know, and I just thought that was amazing. The other two names you may not know is one is Bill Clark. got Willie Clark or just Bill Clark was from New York City and he went to Prince George's County, went to Florida, he went to Wisconsin And he went all over the country. He retired in from New York in like 48 or something. Okay. I mean we're going way back. Yeah. He wrote a couple of books, tremendous stuff. Corley: I I love William Clark's blue book. I mean that's Chief Mike Lombardo: that's one of my go-tos, but one of the things he did so one of the things he did I always thought was pretty amazing was Up in Wisconsin, he ran the fire programs for the state. They did three municipalities, about the same size, same population, same demographic, same geography. One, they did heavy fire inspections. One they did heavy fire prevention, one they did nothing What do you think the outcome was? And they did a year. The fire prevention or the fire inspections was the best. Doing nothing was second and trailing a ways down was fire prevention. Oh wow. I thought it was fascinating. No, that is. They talked about like I always relate it to, you know DARE, the police, the Dare don't do drugs, whatever it is, but you know the DARE programs. Right. My son, I remember when he was a little kid in like fourth or fifth grade. He goes, you know, these cops came in and said, you guys know about this and you guys know about this. He goes, none of us knew anything about that, you know, but They just said we did, you know. Right. It's a little bit fire prevention. You know, we used to kid that it was fire extension week Oh, we didn't think about fires until this week, you know, and then we'd have all kinds of fires after that.

Chief Mike Lombardo: But Bill Clock did that. The other thing that was brilliant, I was in a fire, I was at a Christmas party at Fire Engineer many minutes ago. And Bill Clark was there. And I'm talking to him, and I am like in awe. Like this guy is like, you know, something else. So we're talking and the discussion turns to Gettysburg. And I go, yeah, I was at Gettysburg with my son a couple of months ago. He goes, oh yeah, my dad was at the battle at Gettysburg. Corley: Oh wow. Chief Mike Lombardo: I thought he said his dad was at the bad look. Like I said to a friend, I go, I couldn't have heard that right Right. 1999, you know, night whatever. And that was in 1863. Right. Turns out his father was a drummer boy He was 10 years old. Wow. He had Bill Clark wait. This is fucking the Battle of Gettysburg. Right. Once removed. That's amazing. So he's on he's on the wall. And then the other one you probably never heard of. Okay. A guy named Emmanuel Freed. And he wrote a couple books too, and he was a guy from New York, and he was on the speaking circuit. No, these guys Elmer Chapman, Bill Clark, Emmanuel Freed, they didn't tell jokes. They weren't like bozos like me. They really knew what the hell they were talking about. Elmer Chapman knew more about systems in high-rise building than anybody alive, right? Wow. And they were amazing guys. but you never heard of them because they weren't really entertaining You know, it was information.

Corley: Information. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yes. Yes. But Emmanuel Freed, what was really was coming to Buffalo to do a class and he had a heart attack. I ended up picking his daughter up at the airport, dropping her off. She was a cardiologist. Corley: Okay. Chief Mike Lombardo: I visited him, brought him stuff, took care of him, took him to the airport. So we became, you know, a friendship until he passed away. But those are my four, they mean nothing to anybody Corley: I'd say I'd say I don't I don't know about the the the the two brothers early. The supple was it supples? Supple yeah yeah I don't know them early but I know Clark and I know Freed. And so I absolutely Absolutely, man. This Timothy Wood said, this guy is fantastic. Thank you for approving. And I agree. Max points for your Mount Rushmore of the fire service. Without a doubt, brother. That was A, I love stories. A B, the the everybody in the chat loves stories, so it's just phenomenal. And this is my favorite question. I've got to ask this 201 times, and this is number 202. There is heavy fire. There is searchable space. Would you rather be assigned To the nozzle or first in on VES.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh, the VES, no doubt. Corley: Instantly. Chief Mike Lombardo: Any pussy can squirt water I'm just kidding. Those guys on the engine, I think they're important. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I think There. No, I'm only kidding. No, but I would I would take that any day. And you know, I always said that You know, it wasn't every day. You'd do searches and it'd be like walking around in smoke, right? A lot of times. But every now and then Right? And I was in a pretty busy place. We went to a lot of fun. Sure. But every now and then you went in a place and you came out, your fucking helmet was actually drooping and you were like, fuck Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: And that was worthwhile. And I always, you know, we had a run one day on Townsend Street. I was in a ladder company, ladder 11. I was there 13 years. It was the greatest place I ever spent in my career And it was very weird night. We had six guys. We never had six guys. We had six guys. Right. We go on Townsend Streets, two streets behind the firehouse. Our firehouse doesn't have an engine. It's just us and the chief Right? So we pull out, we get there right away, and we have no water. We have water cans. Right? So mom and dad are hysterical It's a big two and a half frame and every window on the first floor except for the back window on the C D corner on the D side. has fire roaring out of it. Roaring. And that window has what looks like a loud locomotive trapped in its smoke belching out.

Corley: Just chugging Chief Mike Lombardo: So three of us, my Irons guy, can guy, and myself, go in the window, and these people are hysterical, they're kids in there. And we go in the window and my driver, Tom Spelsinger, is smart. He throws another cannon. Chuck had a can and then we had another can because it was like no engine, right? Right. So it turns out we're in a bathroom, little bathroom. The tub surround is in the tub Is that right? We're moving inching forward. When you go out the bathroom door, there's like a two-foot tiny little hallway You make a left, you make a right, and there's the kitchen. And the front of the kitchen's all fire, and everything past it all the way to the front of the building is all fire. Corley: Right. Chief Mike Lombardo: So off the kitchen, this is a hundred-year-old place. Off the kitchen is a bedroom. And we start into the bedroom. Chuck's got the can, he's trying to keep it back TJ, another guy in my crew, he checks and he finds a bed with the bed real low to the floor. What are we looking at? Bunk beds. Right? You find a bed low to the floor, always throw your hands up. Right? So sure enough it's bunk beds. Sure enough it's never that easy. There's no kid Right. So he talks both of them. Right. He gets to a closet and in a pile of clothes, underneath the pile of clothes, is a two-year-old. She goes, I'm at the door. He goes, Cap, I'm going out the window. I go, okay. He goes, nope, I'm not going out the window. So there are bars on the window on the outside. One of my guys was working on him, but he hadn't done them yet Right. So he passes the kid to me. I take him out. We go back. Chuck and him are both using the cant, the two cans to try and hold the fire back I hand them to my driver. My driver runs with a cop, jumps in a police car, and they take this kid in cardiac arrest to the hospital. So, good sized city, that's the last we hear. I mean, it's not like you'd find out much. know right so we figured well that's sad you know but so about a month later we're sitting in the firehouse here comes mom dad with the two year old walking between them holding their hands He's got a big bubble on his head where he was burned.

Chief Mike Lombardo: And he's fine. And I said, fuck that hose. I mean, anybody can do that. This is unbelievable. And you can't, there's nothing, I don't think, on earth that replaces that, at least to me. So, but that was one of those real hot searches, you know You know what the toughest search of all is, right? I really mean it. Let me hear it. No one's there. Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Oh, it's a bitch. Corley: No. Chief Mike Lombardo: You're certain I must have missed somebody. Let me go again. I must have missed somebody. Let me go again Nobody there is tough. Corley: No. It's like the none of the above on the multiple choice. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yes, it is. Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: They're fucking with me. Yeah. Corley: Yeah. Chief Mike Lombardo: Yeah. Yeah. Corley: Dude, brother, hey, this holy shit. This might be the easiest max points I've ever given. 5 for 5. If anybody disagrees, let me know and I'll fight you in the chat. five for five max points. from Mike Lombardo, my brother. That officially makes it 202 scraps in the books. Yeah, the the chat's just rolling by. I can't even read everything. Chief Mike Lombardo: a wonderful time. I tremendously appreciate the offer. Thank you. Oh, brother. If people want to get a hold of you, how do they do it I'm on Facebook. just Michael Lombardo. No Mike Lombardo. And the other way would be the Fire Archive. And it's on Facebook, it's the Fire Archive. Nice. And either of those would get to me, and my, I'll give you my email too. it's BFDBoss Obnoxious, right? BFDBoss at Gmail dot com. The firewall. Like Buffalo Fire Department. BFD. Okay.

Corley: BFD Boss. At at gmail. com There you go. There you go. Another excellent scrap. Max points the whole way through. 12 of 10 would scrap again. Highly recommend. Great scrap. Can't wait to watch the whole thing. I'm loving this man. That comes from Carpe Fuego. The guests keep getting better and better. Can't wait for next scrap. Was it Fire Archives? It was the Fire Archives on Facebook. Outstanding scrap. Max points. Fact. Yes, yes, yes. Chief, man. Hey, Clearly. Thank you for sharing your evening with me. Now, one thing I want to share to you, and this is always I put somebody on the spot right here at the end, but when this ends, I'm getting ready to end it. is I'm gonna m I'm gonna do my my outtake, but for like the next 10, 15, 20 minutes we hang out and the vigilante is going to come here and tell you how you did and talk to you about your Yeah, you're invited to it. It's optional, but I always like to put people on the spot and ask them. I meant to ask you earlier, but of course I forgot. Everybody else Tonight was amazing. Thank you. This is the first time we ever streamed live to Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and LinkedIn. And there's so many freaking comments. It's been awesome. So please, please, please let us know what was cool and what was not so we can make it better. The vigilante after party starts in a few minutes. Guests that are coming up, let me shout them out. I don't even have the I don't even have the guest list up. Give me two seconds. Do not judge me. There we go.

Chief Mike Lombardo: I'm not leaving, but I have to run. I have a prostate the size of your head. Corley: Do what you gotta do. I'll be back in a few minutes. Do it, brother. Next week, DJ Stone, Charlie Dahl, Jeremy Sanders, Eric Saylors. We'll be here, brother. Come on back. Jason Hobelman, Klay McGee, Jeff Rothmeyer, Brian Richards, the scraps are looking phenomenal moving forward. And the coolest part is, thanks to Sam. Everybody gives if you if you haven't, please throw up rocker horns or whatever you can do. I'm not even sure what you can do with the new chat options, but we're going to find out. Because tonight was the first night, but throw up rocker horns or whatever you can do for Sam because he is the one that absolutely is the background making this stuff happen at throwing up the pictures Taking care of the guest, taking care of me, making the scrap happen. So do that. And back to my notes so I can finish strong. If you're not a vigilante, A, I'm sorry. You're missing out. there is so much cool stuff going on, including the after party that's about to happen. Everybody in the vigilantes, I'll be posting the scrap link in just a few short minutes so you can join in and we can talk to Chief Mike Lombardo for a few minutes I already told you everybody's coming up. Visual anything are awesome. There is a Killin' with competence hoodie slash t-shirt thing coming out soon. Tonight, supposedly, but I doubt it's actually gonna happen because I had too much fun talking to to to Mike. Honestly, I'll be honest with you. So it's probably not gonna happen. So here we go. Everybody out there, audience, you are the ones that make the scrap magical because your questions make it awesome. Chief, thank you for being a phenomenal guest.

Chief Mike Lombardo: Thanks for having me. Corley: And finally, phenomenal host. Brother, I I I am the luckiest person of the fire service because I get to talk to the coolest people while the coolest people listen. Speaker 3: All that being said, I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. Everybody, stay safe out there. And honestly, this is the first time ever. I can't just click the button there.