Weekly Scrap #311 - Mike James, understanding the professional level

Corley: Corley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap, number 311. My guest tonight is Mike James. He is currently a battalion chief. For the Niceville Fire Department in Florida. He has served in the fire service for over 17 years and before that spent 17 years as a professional athlete playing baseball. Drafted in 1987 by the Los Angeles Dodgers, and it was not a straight line from the draft to the Biggs. And that journey is something I'm sure we're going to talk about this evening He is currently an instructor at the Northwest Florida State College Fire Academy, an adjunct instructor at the Orlando Fire Conference on the Hoarders and Rit Track, and also an instructor at the Fire Department Training Network FDTN in Indianapolis. To say that I'm excited is an understatement. It's going to be a lot of fun tonight. Welcome to the scrap for episode number 311, my brother, Mike James. Mike James: Awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you very much. Corley: I know there's a lot uh that I missed, but is there anything I missed in the in the bio or intro that you would like to add or elaborate on? Anything I missed Mike James: Uh not no not really. I mean we had the baseball track, 17 years, 17 years professional firefighter, uh current still battalion chief. So no, that was pretty good summary.

Corley: Excellent. Audience, get your questions primed and ready because this is going to be a fun discussion as we discuss all sorts of aspects of his life and his journey. It's going to be good. Mike James: How you doing, man? Corley: You have had a interesting life to date, I would say. Uh a journey that a lot of people would probably be envious of. I don't know, but you got to live it. Uh talk to me about well, let's just we go whatever direction we want, but mindset and mental preparation and how that plays Uh what you learned in the pros versus bringing it to the fire service. Mike James: Okay. Um I'll start out with Uh when I got drafted in 1987, um I didn't sign. The Dodgers drafted me for my rights. I signed in 1988 Just to kind of pick it up a little bit with the mindset and the perseverance and overcoming uh obstacles. Um, I was one of about 250 kids that were drafted that year and showed up at Vero Beach is where the Dodgers used to have their camp. And they have a mini camp in June after the June draft. So there's about 250 kids in that room. And uh we sat in a room, I was in a room with Players from all over the United States, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Canada. And the coaches proceed to tell us that Less than 1% of the kids that got drafted this year, not just our room, but the 30 other rooms that had 250 kids in it. Uh, we're not gonna make it.

Corley: That was just the the Dodgers draft was 250 kids Mike James: Yeah. Whoa. Okay. So every year, every year each team drafts roughly around 200, 250 guys. Corley: Okay. Mike James: Um less than one of those 1% of the kids across the whole board. um makes it. Right. And they proceed to tell us that. And I and I look, I remember looking around and I was in the room with all Americans from like Miami, Cal State Fullerson. um University of Michigan, Ohio State. And I was a I came out of a community college in Andaluzia, Alabama. Very unknown in a in a league that was uh not very well known. Um so the immediate like I'm not gonna make it kind of came over me other than them hammering it into us and telling us. But with that being said, something was going to differentiate us. And the second part of that meeting is when I we split with the pitchers and catchers. And the coaches proceed to tell us, say, hey, listen, all you right-hand pitchers are six foot, six foot three, 180, 100, 100, 225 pounds. You guys all throw 90 plus miles an hour. You all got drafted, but something's going to separate you from the guy next to you. It's not going to be your draft ability. Your ability got you in this room. Something's going to separate you from that group. And fortunately for me, the Dodgers at that time in the late 80s were at the forefront of sports psychology. Um and I really tapped into that. They forced it on us a little bit, but it really like resonated with me. Sure. And it leveled the playing field for me quite a bit because I knew how competitive I was. I knew how driven I was. I was overcome with the uh the situation, you know, I mean I I grew up in Florida and the panhandle, it's we call it LA, it's lower Alabama. Um not a big city, not big city life, not very cultured at all. So the Los Angeles Dodgers was like already overwhelming to me Sure.

Corley: Be in these rooms with these guys from other countries and you know how old how old were you at this point, Mike? Mike James: At that time I was 21. Corley: Okay. Mike James: That was my second year of college. 21 years old. So a kid. 100%. And some of these guys were four years, four-year school guys. You know, they were 23, which at that time they were a lot older, older than me. But I knew I remember thinking back when that was when that was said and they and the mental part of it kind of and I wasn't like mentally tough, I would say it in in like the personal development side of it, the mindset, but it like I said, it kind of leveled the playing field. for me because I'd look at the guy next to me and I never was one of those guys where I thought I was better than everybody ever. And I always thought The guys next to me were better, so I always had like this competitive competition drive in my head to be as good as the guy next to me Um and that carried over through I spent six years in the minor leagues trying to get to the big leagues. Um and I did pretty well. I had some really good years coming through and just never really got the call up and never made it. Um and that whole success and failure and overcoming that mindset was pretty tough because there was a lot of times in that six year period You know, from 20 to 27, I made that's when I got caught up, was that when I was 27. Um, that was a lot of years of like bus rides and pretty hard Pretty hard dose of like, you know, this is a lot harder than than I actually thought it was gonna be.

Corley: Right. Mike James: For sure. So I got traded in nine in uh 1994, 93 I got traded from Los Angeles to the California Angels. Just to speed that story up, I got a couple weeks into that season, month or so into that season, they I went from a starter to a reliever. I was a starting pitcher with the Dodgers. They made me they turned me into a reliever. One of the pitching coaches there really worked hand on hand with me and helped me out with a slider. I basically threw a fastball my whole career. Helped me out with a slider, learned a slider, had a few games and got called up to the big leagues. Um and I believe I that was in '94 and I sent you a video on that where those the the baseball union was going on strike that year. I got called up two weeks before that strike, and it was known to be it wasn't known if they were going to come to an agreement not or yet on the CBA. Well they didn't and I went back to triple A And that whole like holy cow, I took six years to make six years, got the call up years, straighted, get there. I sit in the locker room, go to the field, dress out, but they didn't activate me. And then they sent me back. So then it was the longest strike in baseball history. So then it went into the spring training next the following year, 95, which spring making a team as a rookie is already did really difficult. And then it was a shortened spring training. So like my chances to make the team with an open spot were even slimmer. But myself and uh Troy Percival, who's the closer, when I was a setup guy, we both made that team next. here.

Corley: So oh wow. Mike James: But it was a lot of um that mental fortitude of uh really like just the next step the next put my foot the next foot down and like not diving into the why I didn't succeed or what if what did I do wrong or what could have I done different more than And I remember I remember coming up through the ranks and a lot of guys on other teams that had been called up and down were asked me like, hey man, what are you uh why are the Dodgers not calling you up? Like, I don't know. Well, I had a catcher named Don Wakamatsu who ended up being the manager for I think for Toronto Blue Jays and the Chicago White Sox. He was my catcher in Triple A. And he he would told me one day, he's like, hey, Mike, he's like, man, when you figure it out, he said, man, you're gonna be, you're gonna be unreal. And I was like What do I what do I got to figure out? Right. Let me know. Let me know. But there and he was like, I don't really, he said, when you figure it out, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're really gonna take off. And I had no clue. I remember sitting there like trying to figure out like what it was I mean I worked on my the the scouting and the and the the the mechanics of my arm and my body and all the things. I did all those I checked all those boxes but there was something missing And it was what it came to, it was a uh it was a mental plateau that I had to come to with success and failure. Um because I was so competitive, I I did not enjoy losing. And it's a pitch by pitch in in professional sports. It's literally play by play. You succeed and fail and you have to overcome within that. Just say like a just a as a hitter. I got I pitched to a hitter. I got five, six pitches I can throw him If I'm up in the count, I have more strikes than balls. If he's up in the count, he has more balls than strikes. And it's this constant like, okay, I'm I'm down. I need to get back up. How do I, how do I mentally get my body and mind into that space.

Corley: So is it is it strictly just being able to have the short memory to let go or is it more than that or Mike James: It's not just because a lot of guys can, yeah, I I mean I come across a lot of guys in the fire service that like, yeah, you know, I don't think about stuff when I go home. Sure. You know, it's just gone. Like the short, it's not so much the short memory, um, but it's the development the development of making your mind and body function together, I guess in the face of adversity where you're set up to fail. And you if you look at it, like I was a I was a setup guy. So I came to a lot of games where the starting pitcher or the pitcher before me was not doing well. So I didn't really come into the game like the beginning of the inning, music's playing and I'm doing my warm-ups. I'm coming into as like a very high intensive environment. There's guys in scoring position, the games on the line. The guy behind me, Choi Purcell, the closure is depending on me to set that up for him. to get saves and do that sort of stuff. And I I thrived in those environments. Jumping forward when I first became a fireman, I had that mentality brought over. And I remember my chief and a couple other people telling me. Like, hey man, you gotta you gotta kinda gotta take it easy a little bit. It's a little different. It's a little different than what you used to do. Um but but that that mentality was it was it was very cutthroat and very hardline. Um this is the way you do it. And you gotta be second nature proficient at it. And I think that's why now like a lot of stuff that I do, I I I uh me and Jim McCormick have some really in-depth conversations and um is a very good friend of mine. And um it is it's a a lot to do with like the basic knowledge of skills in your body and performance under environmental pressure, mental pressure, and you can perform in a calm manner. And a lot of people can I know there's all kinds of stuff out there. I've seen it. A lot of people regurgitate it.

Mike James: You know, lead from the front. We can do this, do that. But actual doing it, there's people that talk about it and people that do it. There's a whole thing with that aspect of it. Corley: So when you talk about uh your intensity basically when you came into the fire service, was that is that a good word for it? Sure. Sure. Do you think the fire service needs more of that or did you have it Not to put you on the spot, but do you think it needs more of that? Or do you think it needs less of that? Or what what did you have to learn? What was the adjustment? Mike James: I'll say I'll say this. I think that We go to a semester of a fire academy and we come out and the state, whatever state we're in, strokes us a certificate and the bottom of it says, whatever your name is, professional firefighter. I think the the label of being a professional from what be took it what it took for me to be a professional in that arena and the athletes that obviously we all know and watch. That level of professionalism isn't just because, oh, you made it, you got paid a bunch of money and you're a professional. It's just like that. You went to the fire academy. You learn some basic skills and now you come out on the street and you're a professional firefighter. I think being a professional is knowing your job, knowing every single thing about it. You know, like a base a baseball is by rule by law it has to be five to five and a quarter ounces heavy. Has to be nine and nine nine to nine and a quarter inches in circumference has 108 stitches, you know what I mean? Like um the distance is six feet six inches from the mound to the rubber. You know, I know all those little things. And I know like some of the stuff like why like Tom Brady and things like that. Like they're They there's guys like Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan, that that know that profession that that even take it to another level. But for us, like in firefighting, I do think it's uh How do I say this politely? Like I think it's loosely used and there's people that can get I came in very intense.

Mike James: Like I wanted to be a fireman since I was a kid. Okay. My life took me a different direction. When I got done firefighting, I was actually working in a cabinet company at home here. And I got out of it because it just wasn't for me. I was sitting at my mom and dad's table and they were like, hey, what are you gonna do? Like, I don't know, I wanna do something, you know, that get a little more out of than doing punch work on a cabinet And uh my mom was like, well, you know, ever since you're a kid you want to be a firefighter. So my dad knew, he's like, well, I know the battalion chief at the city of Destin. He used to be an umpire when you were little, I'll give him a call. Long story short, I stopped playing baseball in 2005. I went to the Fire Academy in 2006, 2007, was a professional firefighter in 2008. So within a year turn. . from one profession to the other. So it wasn't a long gap where I kind of got like numb to the fact of the competition arena. And plus that's always been in me Um sometimes I've had to knock the corners off of it in certain aspects of my life.

Corley: Sure, sure. And you went from one one professional arena where they use the term professional baseball player to a term professional firefighter And and the and the and the usage of that term was wildly different. Mike James: Wildly different. Because what it took for us to be professional, we were uh me and Jim just talked about this. We did a company he does a company officer class up at FDTN in June. And we're just talking about this. And he he he actually said this to the group. There's about we had 49 students this time of officers and aspiring officers. You know, he's like, you know, being talking about being a professional, is like, you know, professional athletes are based on performance. He's like, God, I wish we got paid by performance. Because it would really you didn't have any choice if you didn't perform in baseball or in sport, you were graded every single day. And your performance mattered on where you're gonna be, how long you're gonna be there. And sustaining that with 250 guys every year coming up trying to take your job from you. Um, I think there's a comfortableness with the fact that we're professional firefighters. I know it's different And I know it can't be like that. And I do think like things like this, like the people here on the scrap and the people that we come in contact, we all kind of migrate the the true professionals, I believe. migrate to each other.

Corley: Find each other. Mike James: Oh yeah. And that it's kind of like the birds of a feather type of thing. You know, it's like then go searching these guys out. It just kind of happens and it's like, hey, I like the way that guy talks. Hey, I like what he said. Or that what's what the message is. Corley: No, I love it. I absolutely love it. Um preparing for the job, slowing the game down. Talk about slowing the game down because like a big thing for me in what you just said was your ability to mentally overcome though that adversity. And I again I have no uh experience in this arena of of the the level you uh competed at. Uh so to me slowing the game down, I love that term, but I'd like to hear your definition of how that works and what what affects that. Mike James: Okay, um I'm gonna use I'm gonna when I was a kid, um Sandy Lassa and Jim McCormick were gonna bust my balls and Mike Lombardo gonna bust my balls for this. But it was Wayne. I I remember everybody talking about Wayne Gretzky. I I tailored the name. I I use Bobby Orr now when I go up to Indy because of those guys.

Corley: Okay. Mike James: But the same concept. It doesn't, Tom Brady, they all did it. Um But I remember as a kid, like being in Florida and hockey was like, I don't think I saw a hockey puck until I was out of college. I never could see the puck because they didn't have that blue dot that folded around back then. And I remember it being so fast. And I remember the commentators talking about how the guy how the good ones, like the great one, like Gretzky and Bobby Orr and all these guys could slow the game down. And it would and it wasn't like what we saw. And I never could understand that as a kid. And I was like, how can you physically take time and slow it down? Especially something that looks so chaotic and fast to me. As I went through the got into professional sports, the mental aspect of preparation, I found that And I'm sure you can attest to this, especially the level of the fire service where you're at, and a lot of guys on here can. It's done through repetition and preparation. And the more You know, like I can go out. I just told a kid the other day we had a fire. I sent you a picture. Actually, we had the one our newest guy has been on a job for about a year and a month He was tasked to force the door to side of this house. And I was in command and I heard a lot of clacking going on. Anyway, on our hot wash afterwards, I asked him. I said, hey, what was going on with the door? He's like, man, to be quite honest, he said, uh, my lieutenant told me to force the door. I turned the tool torch and started hitting. I completely forgot what I was doing. And how to do it. And I was like, man, that's exactly the stuff I'm talking about right there. We got a door prop in our engine bay, like most firehouses do. Sure. And we break wood all day long. Right. And he's very good at it. And I was like, that is where The critical thinking process and the game speeds up on you and you have not done the mental preps, the physical preps you've done. And you probably looked in the mirror and thought, man, I'm pretty good at that.

Mike James: Right. I call them mirror deals. You know, you get in the mirror and you like kind of bow up. You're like, man, I'm pretty, I'm pretty awesome. But then there's somewhere along the line on the street or somewhere in a house where you get leveled and your actual the actual level of your ability meets. And sometimes where it meets isn't the best place where it should meet And I'll use the like I like the slowing it down like in the mental prep. I'll just I'll say this to this day, like ever after every single practice batting practice we did. We did every day. Early as back as I can remember is high school. I don't know in junior high if we did, but after every practice uh the coach would be like, hey, all the pitchers get on the mound, first baseman at first, catchers behind the plate, we're gonna work on comebackers. So they hit the ball at us or to the first baseman. If they hit it to the right side of the field, the pitcher is supposed to break and go cover the bag because the first baseman comes off. And the catcher yells, get over. Um, so if I went still on the field to this day and a ball was hit to the right side of the field, there is no question in my mind that my body would break to that direction. Because it's just second nature. It has just been mentally prepped and physically repeated over and over to perfection

Corley: This is not even a choice, not even a conscious, it's unconscious competence. Mike James: And I I use this reference when I do trainings. I I just call it the remote control or or the uh or your shoelaces. You know, my daughter, uh, when she was a kid, teaching her, and if anybody has kids, we try to teach her how to tie her tie her shoelaces. You know, it's a process. Hey, go make a dog, make a rabbit ear, go around You know, and after now, um, I don't I don't think about how to tie my shoelaces. I go down, I tie them up, it's not even a thought. Corley: Yeah, you don't even look, yeah. It's just nope. Mike James: Get a new TV and you like look at the remote for the first day, you're like, okay, where's the jump channel? Where's mute? Where's volume? Where's Netflix, second night, you're laid back in there with a drink and you just and you and you remember it like that because you prepped it and membered it and memorized it to the point where it's just second nature Corley: No, I love it. Mike James: I think that aspect goes in, ties hand in hand with the professional being a professional. That's Those tools should be, you know, doing a baton tour with a halligan bar at the door when it's zero condition visibility conditions. Like you should know those things. Because those are your batch or gloves, the playing field, the mound, the first base of a professional field

Corley: I got questions coming from the audience. So here are you ready for your are you ready for your first one? Sure. Sure. Let's have it. This one's coming from Jeremy Humphrey. Hump wants to know, Chief, I hear basic drills called fake training. From your baseball career, how did fundamental drills help and do they parallel professional firefighting? Did you do fake drills as a pro? Mike James: I don't think any drill we ever did was fake by any means. Um we to this day, I even at the fire station, I got a baseball in my locker. Um we walked as pitchers, we walked around with a baseball And probably the if you want to say a fake drill is just putting your hand in the right place on a baseball for certain pitches. We constantly did that. I did it every day, all day. Um I think the drill, the basic drills. Get overlooked because we become we want to be so much more that It's almost like a surgeon forgets how to do CPR. You know what I mean? Sure. And you get so elevated and so uh educated to the point that you forget what's going on down here when when things collapse. Like when I I'll just say I'll just I'll refer it to baseball. If I come into a game and I'm not doing well and I got bases loaded and I have to get a pitch over, I got to get a guy out, it has to boil down to I have to do the simple play catch with the catcher. I can't think about nothing else. My job is to throw this ball to that guy in a location And everything in me has to be in that basic, throw the ball to the that guy.

Corley: No, yeah, that that actually uh plays out very, very well. Thank you for the question, Hump. There's more questions coming from the audience. Sam will get them in, so get them in here. Um Hump also followed up and said, Chief From your baseball career, what's one mindset or practice you'd instill in the fire service to drive big change? And how would it transform firefighting? So what's one say again? Mike James: Say that one more time. Corley: What would drive mindset or practice that you if like magic wand basically you could instill this in the fire service today? What what would it what would you do to drive big change? Whew, man. Never easy questions from the audience. Mike James: No, that's good. That's really good. I like a good cerebral question. I gotta think about it. One thing that would like help change the American Fire Service, man, um it's not an easy job. It shouldn't be made easy. It's just not for everybody. Um I think if there's anything I think the standard of doing tough shit should be accomplished by doing tough shit. I don't think the backyard, back parking lot. sit at the kitchen table and all those things are needed. We do those things on hot days, rainy days, whatever they are. But the The two to five year firefighter that's never been in a fire and then goes in his first fire five years down or the first time he experiences that environment. If I could change something, I would make those More accessible. And there they are becoming more. Um, but I would there's so many standards, and I know the safety stuff, I get it, but this isn't This isn't a safe job. And I I've I've run into a little bit of this where, and I referenced this, uh, special force guys, marine guys. Um If, hey, we're on budget freezes and this and that, we don't want to send guys out to get fire training because I mean we basically everybody we we have less fires than we used to have. Sure. We need to go get find these environments and train in these environments and our managements and things like that, you know, because of budget reasons and stuff, obviously. We're not accessible. So it's like going to our special forces and being like, hey, listen guys, you guys are gonna have to do uh, we're gonna take your bullets away And your guns, and we're gonna give you these wooden guns, and you guys are gonna have to go out in the back out there in the woods and pretend you're going to war.

Mike James: And then when you go to war, we're gonna give you the real stuff and real people are gonna be shooting at you. Now you're in, you know what I mean? You're not you're not ready for that environment if you're not practicing in that environment. Corley: No, absolutely. I love that analogy. Go out there and make pew-pew sounds. Mike James: Right. Corley: Yeah. Mike James: Right. I have a guy. We have a guy just real quick, quick story that reminds me of this. I'm talking about the two to five. We had a guy, he was my driver. He wasn't at the time. He was a proby under me and became a driver. Two years on the job, we went down to a company near here, Ocean City, Florida, and did some life fire training. So we were running some guys through. Like, all right, listen, and it's a can it's a can burn. We didn't have any props or anything like that. Hey, it's like a like a just seeing how the environment works. We're like, okay, listen, when it gets hot, you start feeling it hot, you guys get down. We had a team in a backup safety team. We get down, the thermal air comes down, it's banking down. We get down, we look over and we see legs up into it. And we grab him, pull him down. Well, his shield and everything's on fire. So we're putting it out. We come out and you know we're we're pretty much like, hey man, what the what are you thinking? Yeah. What are you doing? And his comment resonated with me. And this has been years ago now. He said, man, I've never been in a fire and I didn't know that's what it wasn't supposed to feel like. And that floored me. And I talk about it up at FDTN with Mike Lombardo and Jim McCormick. And Jimmy Clett and all those guys. I was like just that statement alone, kind of uh out across the American fire service. I think if I could change something I would make it to where, yes, be safe about it, but man, we have to get in. We have to get in those environments. We love it, obviously, all of us. That's why we got in this. service. We want to go to fires. We want to be, that's the test. That's the game.

Mike James: That's the high intensity bases loaded, no outs The media lineup's coming up. I want to go. Send me in there. Corley: Love it. Oh, yeah. No, and that's what I love your analogy about the special forces using wooden guns. Because when I think about it, I used to tell my battalion we'd go out and do a training, I'd be like, okay, guys, we're having to play pretend on this and this and this, okay? But pretend like it and we were playing pretend. Sure. Like because it's all we could do. And and I'm uh Mike James: Yeah. We've all done it. I mean I I mean I'm not trying to make anybody feel bad about it. Corley: But just me looking back on it going, we were playing with toy guns and and and And at the time, very proud of our training because we were getting some training done. But it's just, it's almost asinine when you think about it. Mike James: And and so uh so it becomes almost like a checkbox, right? Like, hey, we how much we did an hour of training today. Check Yeah. Corley: Uh John M. Sullivan. How to push on? I don't know. I don't get that question at all, so I don't I don't understand the reference. It might have been timely. I don't know what it was referencing Mike Piverall wants to know, chief, how can we help others? No easy question. How can we help others find the importance of being that true professional?

Mike James: Oh my gosh. Corley: Yeah. No we I'm telling you, they got some tough ones for you. Mike James: I think it's the I think it's the migrating to the people and the noise that you hear that rings in your ear a certain d certain way. Um or a guy told me that long time ago, Chief Shannon Stone told me that. He's in a he used to be down here in Fort Walton. He's now at Midway. Um and it was, hey, how do I change? I asked him the same thing, I was like, how do I how do I make change in my department? And he's like, you know what, it's not a big change. He's a it's like turning a cruise ship. He said, you find one guy Or you find somebody that you hear the way they talk and what they sound like and what they the message they're delivering and you like it, you migrate to that. And you see a kid that sees that, he said you pay attention to and you grab one at a time and they start migrating. That's the change is small, but that's how it starts and that's how it that's how you make a good change. I think that would uh I think for us is that, but there has to be some sort of, you know, hey, like, okay, we'd love everybody to be engaged and drink the Kool-Aid and be as like passionate as this group of people are uh I know for a fact on here. Um but how do you because there's some people that just aren't like well I mean I I sit in reclining right next to you and I don't I don't have to go do all those things and I do the same exact stuff you do.

Corley: Right. Mike James: Now how do you make that? I don't I don't know how you make that guy buy in. I think it's just I I believe everything's done by example, not by like, hey, I'm the guy, but I think a company and a group, not do I think, but I know, especially the people I've I know in other departments, big departments retired. That company sets the standard and the other companies see it and be like, man, either by I don't want to be looked bad or hey, we need to do what they're doing because That's different. Corley: Right. Rono. Mike James: For sure. Corley: I love it. I love it. Uh and that and again, it's a tough one. I and it is I say it almost every scrap in some way, shape, or form. I'm like, hey, when you figure out the answer to that, you write the book and that's a million-dollar book. I promise you. That's a that's a multiple. But if you figure out the answer, I promise you, they'll read it. We just gotta write it at that point. But no, it it is a tough one. It's a tough one. I think you're you're spot on. All you can control is what you can control, and that's yourself. Set the example, you and your crew, and raise that bar because of rising tide Hey, whether like you said, either they're embarrassed enough to have to go do something or they want to match you.

Mike James: So or you know, like the professional level, it's a performance-based, and I don't know that the American Fire Service could do that. You know what I mean? I don't know that There could be a line where it's performance based. And if you can't meet that performance or that expectation, whatever it may be, that there's another 200 guys, is as we all know, where everybody's short staffed and operating at Mentor Grant. You know, it's not as It's just different than professional sports. Corley: It's not supply and demand. And I've always said, and one of my things I say is if if Fire Chiefs had a win-loss record the same way a college football coach did, they'd be fired every you know season. 100%. But there is no there like there and that's one of the things Chief Scott Thompson talks about. There is no standard of success in the American Fire Service. So since there is no standard of success, the guy can sit in the recliner next to you and say, hey. I do the same stuff you do. Mike James: The one percenters, right? The way they do one percent more than needed, but by by just looking at the they're they're right there, they're getting on the same vehicle, the same apparatus, the same engine, the same truck, going to the same calls. But I just I don't know, yeah, I don't know how you could make that line to where it's like, okay, those types of people will find their way out. We would we would all hope that. You know, and we hope that it doesn't come to like a bad hey something bad happened now they're out, but we would hope that that would happen. But I mean we all know people that have had 15, 20 year careers that have just kind of floated through

Corley: Love it. I absolutely love the discussion. Speaking of Chief Shannon Stone, he wants to know how challenging, how challenging has it. I promise I can talk. How challenging has it been to go from such a high performance standard in the big leagues to influencing firefighters and trying to get them to understand and buy off on the same concept? Mike James: That's been tough. So I've been like I said, I've been doing this for 17 years. I'm in a small department. So when I first started, it was only there was only a few guys, and my influence on them was pretty direct. Um but it's it's I'm finding it more now like when the newer generational people are coming through. I'm finding it tough to because that competitive aspect that got me the in that industry is still in me. Um and it's hard to watch some of the I I'm gonna tiptoe around this one and I'm just gonna say it, but the the certificate based promotional quality of what we get. Sure. Based on and I and I get it. I understand it. Um it's needed. Um but if it's just like the mindset doesn't meet that It's to me it's kind of blank and vacant. Um Jim used to give guys certificates up in Indy. He used to give them a balloon and he'd tell them to go throw down a fire next time when they got done with a class because everybody wanted something. Or take that piece of paper, throw it. He goes, take that whole book of papers and throw them in your next fire and see what those certificates will do for you. Because it's it has to be it has to be performance. It has to be mindset. It has to be your skill set. But it's been, it's been tough to, it's been tough to, it's been easy to to migrate to the ones that have the same conversation. Like Shannon's the one that um I migrated towards. He was like when I said he was one of the first ones that I had conversation with. And man, I bought into that like nobody else. And you know, where we live like everybody catches flack for something. But I was like, man, I don't like I you're what you're saying doesn't sound right. What he's saying sounds right to me.

Mike James: Right. So it's been hard to see the other side of it. I mean that's not that's not hard at all. That's a kindred yes, it's a kindred spirit, kindred mindset. Um so yeah, it it's been tough to Especially now, and especially in my position now to kind of be more of a manager. Um, you know, I was always a player, I never was a manager or a coach. Sure. So it's been tough to watch like now I depend on my lieutenants and the senior guys to get these guys motivated when that's something that's an aspect that I enjoy taking kids and making them men. And giving them that mind like, hey man, this is how important doing the simple little things is. Right. This is where you want to be perfect at. You don't want this to be what stumbles you down the road. Corley: No, no. And that's a perfect segue to the other brother, DJ Stone. DJ DJ chimed in. And listen, I love the Stone Brothers, man. Absolutely. I've taken so many notes from their classes. In fact, I need to get them back on. uh I was just talking to DJ today on the phone actually so yeah that's that I love he wrote that article on that inch and a half just recently that little that little blurb on the inch and a half and I I want to I want to have him on for a discussion about that but I also need to have Shannon back on Because it's been a minute. Okay. Hey, uh, DJ says, what are some parallels of leading in a team? And you just touched on this, so that's why I was saying it's kind of relevant. parallels of leading in a team of Pro Ball and then in the position of a company officer or battalion chief, which you just started kind of touching on.

Mike James: Sure. Obviously all that leading from the front stuff. But it's, you know, setting an expectation. You know, we'd have being a rookie in professional sports was I know being a proby is tough, but being a rookie in professional sports is like pretty brutal. So you learn like real quick, like And it's done through respect. It isn't quote unquote hazing and all that kind of crap. It's a respect level thing. And I think it's all, I mean, I think it's, I think it's based if you're leading um professional sports, like we had a group in the bullpen. And you know, we were we we had the leaders and then we became leaders as we got older in the career. Um but it's done through Through expectations and trust, I think trust is the biggest thing of all. Um that take these guys, like I'm not just telling you to do stuff to do it. One, I'm doing it with you. And if there is an there's a lot of uh different opinions now. Um I think now it makes it tough because a lot of guys Google fact you and do all that sort of stuff. But if you can listen to them You know, be open enough to listen to them and then give them, okay, let me tell you why this works. And now I can reference either experience. or something I came in contact or somebody and always be open to be like, I don't know. And I know both the Stone Brothers are this way as well as I. I don't, maybe I don't know all the answers, but I got some pretty heavy hitters at the end of my fingertips and we'll find the answer for you.

Corley: Right on. Mike James: I think that develops bonding that crew integrity. Um I've always said this in the firehouse just like in the baseball field. You got to know my voice in the house because when we get on the street, I don't, I don't, I, that's not a time for me to get you to recognize who I am So as a leader, like, hey man, we eat together. And just like all the stuff we've ever seen. Eat together, talk together, drive together, hang out together, do all those things, but that's a familiarity. Um, you know, the old saying that the I think special force has the the more extreme the act, the tighter the bond. So the more times we're compressed into this pressure cooker. um at the fire station and engine bay in the apparatus, the tighter we get. And then the trust is either Bonded or do you have somebody that breaks that trust? And then that decision is very easy. Corley: Beautiful Anth. In fact, I it you got my brain going. I think in a small unit leadership, Dandridge Malone and and it's such a great uh but no yes uh All right, here's a palate cleanser. This is a palette cleanser question coming at you from Greg White up in Minnesota. He wants to know who is the best hitter that you faced as an MLB player? Holy cow.

Mike James: I had to look at some stats. I was who got the most hits off me. But um I don't think there was a I don't think there was a guy. Like I can't think of one guy. I love pitching against the big hitters. Like uh I pitched against back then. I mean Just for just to say, I got pitched in a steroid air without doing steroids. So it was, it's already tough to be there. I didn't realize it. We didn't know, like had no clue, you know. We were in the middle of it. Sure. Um but looking at it, like man, that was uh, you know, I just kept I pitched against Bonds and Aguire and uh Joseco and Jim Tomey, all these guys. Um there was a style of hitter that gave me problems. It wasn't the leadoff guy, it was kind of like the Roberto Alamar, Brady Anderson type of guy. um put the bat on the ball kind of guy, but also had a little bit of power. Those guys, those, those guys, the scouting report, those guys was tough. It was tough. Those guys made it tough for for me. Because the big hitters had a hole. They always had a hole. Some of the guys had some of the guys are a couple of Wade Boggs and uh Thompson was the first baseman for the White Sox, the big hurt. They were scared of the baseball. So their scouting report was like, hey, throw the first ball right at them. They'll scream and then you own them, which was true. But the hitters, like I said, Roberto Alomar, second baseman type of guys, those guys gave me problems.

Corley: Gotcha. Great answer. I don't know. But that like I said, that's a nice little palate cleanser. Because we're getting heavy with all the all the performance and I know it. No, it's awesome. It's great. Mike James: I don't have all the answers, but I I can give my perspective for sure. Corley: That's that's what they're after. Mike James: Heck yeah. Corley: Uh okay, I got one from each stone brother. I'm seeing here we got that the true professional question. We have that McGinn, Andrew McGinn checking in and is Megan Mick Guinees, and he says, what team building training did you take from baseball to the fire service? Anything that carried over real well? Um Mike James: I think the I think the physical part for sure, like just and I mean there's a lot of parts, but the physical part for sure, like being in shape, um, being ready for the job, that was an easy one for me to portray onto my crews. We did workouts in Engine Bay together and like just the importance of the game's a lot easier when you're Strong enough to do it. You don't have physical when you can flow naturally and all you're doing is the mental thinking and and muscle memory aspects of it because at the end of the day, that's what training is. I say it all the time. Base the games themselves were not work. They were, that was the easy part. That's when you applied everything that you had been working on. um all the scouting reports, all the mental preparation. And yeah, during the game, there's those mental, but there's it's it's a different kind of mental game. And I I think that going to the fire service was something I brought in to the crews um that I had. And even now, it's my perspective to them. It's just a mental toughness accompanied with being physically capable.

Corley: Boom. I love the parallels of like you said, uh as you're as you're sitting there talking about scouting reports and the mental reps and all that stuff, and I'm thinking of pre-incident walkthroughs, you know, uh pre-incident plans. Uh and And just things like that and the parallels you can make to the fire service. Mike James: Or just driving around town or walking in a restaurant with your family. And we all do it. I'm well most of us, I you know, I you're pre-planning the whole building. Yeah Timmy Collette came down, him and his wife, we went to a restaurant over here in Pensacola called uh Maguire's, and it's I mean, it is a nightmare. It's heavy timber. Corley: Absolutely nightmare. Mike James: I think Frank Leave, uh Chief Leave, came by the table and Timmy was like, man, you imagine stretching a line into this place. Dollar bills hanging all over the walls. But it's like that kind of like That's what it is. Like I didn't, you see you said something about earlier when we first started about being a professional athlete. Um, my perspective of being a professional athlete isn't like this pedestal I made it. I'm better and than everybody else. My perspective was what it cost to get there, what it cost to stay there. Everything from my mental, physical, family, everything in my life it took to be at that and stay at that level. And that's That's where that's some of the edges I had to cut off when I got into this service, but it's some of the stuff that I believe in the American Fire Service is lacking. No, we need it. We need it. Bad. We need it. We need it. Because the professionals that I like, the guys I talk about constantly, you know, Sandy Lawson and uh Jim McCormick and Timmy Collette, those guys were professionals like that. You know what I mean? They were, they did what it took to stay there and they kept doing those things to continue to stay there. through the preparation, the physicality of it. Just being good at what you do. And like if you're good at it, just be better. I'm 1% better today than I was yesterday.

Corley: Love it, man. And that's it's just so much, yeah. And the thing is, it's not this high concept really complex. It's not complex. It's very, it really is simple. And I'm not I'm not dumbing it down or anything. I'm not I'm not belittling it, is what I'm saying. It's massively needed. Back to basics, mental toughness, physical preparedness, and a standard. I love it. Uh I do. Mike James: So I do, I don't know, I don't know, I'm sure there's more, but I do a thing and I've always done a thing and I made a reference to it and it drives me crazy. Like guys get and I know situations are different, but like for me, like what one of the things from baseball, like guys get dressed at home. They drive to the fire station. They got their bag over their shoulder. They're already ready for duty in their uniform. They go into the station, they put their stuff on the truck and they go about their day. To me, like the funneling process for a baseball game that started through the scattering port when I left the house and how like the drive to the field, how my mind and everything started like shutting certain doors off and concentrating on other things and pulling things up to the forefront. I did the same thing in the fire station in the firehouse and I do it every day. And I go my the fire station now the locker room. And when I go to the locker room or the fire station, you know, when I put my uniform on, as I'm doing that, my mental mindset and preparation is changing from dad, husband. taking kids to school, worrying about the yard, grocery shop and all that to man, we got that problematic house. Hey, we have a we have a water treatment center. Man, who's got to figure out who's who's on their game today, who's not. You know, it's all people management and all that funnel process to get to the kitchen table in the morning, um, I think starts without dragging that from the house to the clubhouse, so to speak. And I always reference like Ray Lewis and Tom Brady never put their shoulder pads and helmets on and drove to the field. I never put my baseball uniform on, drove to the field.

Mike James: You know, because I If you go if you break it down to the mental process of it, it does start there. And there is an aspect of that. If you're going to be like that, and that's how I operate, if you're going to be so hard line like that, yeah, there is an aspect where you're dragging that. to throw your house into the fire station. Corley: And and and I love the again, everybody, you know, we we can beat it into the ground, the mental preparation for it. You know, we've all heard the thing about free throws and visualizing beforehand and things like that. And And all that's fantastic, but I love your analogies. A the special forces using wooden guns and now uh Ray Lewis showing up to the game, getting out of his car with his shoulder pads and the uniform on. I love the the the the picture of that and it makes just so much sense that it you know there's a There's a clear distinction that needs to be made mentally so you can get yourself into the right mindset to do what needs. And that's a level that, again, is needed. 100%.

Mike James: And there's I mean I I the I guarantee me fired up, Mike. I guarantee the guy I am too. Starting to get like dry throat and everything. I'm getting a little woke up. Um, but I guarantee you I and everybody, I mean not everybody, but a lot of people know Ray Lewis and how he was on the field in the locker room And that way he acted because it was that important to him, I know for a fact that he didn't act like that at home. So there was a change and a switch. That when he came to the field, same thing with Tom Brady. Talk to Tom Brady now, like he's an announcer. And I mean he's very knowledgeable in what he does. But man, when he got on that field and in that locker room, he was as fierce of a competitor as there ever has been. Corley: Mm-hmm. Mike James: And that's kind of what it takes. And that's and you know, yeah, we run ten fall calls today, you know, and we get no fires That's easy to be like, well, you know what? I can kind of let up a little bit when you really can't.

Corley: No, complacency. Complacency comes for everybody. And they don't give a shit who you are. Mike James: I reference DJ Stone all the time in my things when guys get complacent and things get monotonous. And DJ's been on the I think the job for about 18 years at Fort Walden. I think 17 or 18 years. And 41 was very uh at the forefront of VES. They practice it. They were known to be, hey man, we're we're VES. That's what we do. Um that's our tactic coming out of the gate, which it should be all of us, obviously. But they were very well known with Shannon and DJ and a bunch of other guys that used to be there. Seven and I'm sure they they practiced it a lot. 17 years in, DJ's never made a grab. Now he does a class called the dynamics of a grab. He makes a grab 17 years in his career. I was like, how many of those Saturdays that were 100 degrees? How many of those Tuesday nights when they practice VES did DJ have the opportunity to say, oh man, we're going out here to do VES again? Corley: Yeah, not today.

Mike James: I haven't had a grab in 10 years, 15 years. But then it happened and he was so ready for it. That's the preparation and the readiness that everybody in the American Fire Service should have. Corley: No, I love it. I love it, man. Uh brother, uh, let me see. Some of these questions are repetitive, kind of just asking what do you do with the the complacent? What do you do? How do you get people on board? There's a lot of that coming at you. And I again we've touched on it. Uh I'm getting rid of John Sullivan's there. Okay. Jarvis Dowley wants to know: no matter how much we train, we can't hit everything every day. Any tips for staying jam up on constantly new additions to knowledge, i. e. paramedic, engineer, tech rescue, etc. , over a career? So we do wear a lot of hats. Mike James: Do you have a good We do. Um I think there's people for that for sure. Um I think I I just it's it's on the it's running through the reels right now, the whole paramedic thing. Um, I forget what the keynote speaker in 2013 at FDIC was. I mean, and the thing is like, hey, a paramedic can kill one person. He's like, I did the study. He's like paramedics can only kill one person at a time. Bad company officer could kill his whole crew and adjacent crews and probably lose more than that. So to be relevant in all the aspects, like you know uh TRT teams and paramedic, um I value our medics. Um I value our dive guys, um, all of them. And I think there's specialized groups within a group, just like on a sports field. Not everybody's the quarterback, not everybody's the center. You've got to be good at what you do to make the team work. So it would be hard for everybody to be that way. Everybody can't be a paramedic or wants to be a paramedic. Everybody can't be the high angle rescue guy, but we need those guys to make that team, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. And I mean we do I know a lot of guys um we talked about this up with Jim uh just in June at the company office thing like if you think you gotta do these two hour trainings in the back parking lot And like, man, we got to get all these points covered and we got to get these things out of when it's like, if you just do a training, you know, um one of the things that that um I talk about is the radio training, get in a circle with your with your crew And just for Mayday and writ purposes, key up the radio and call the guys literally standing next to you and see what that, and then that guy calls the guy next to him.

Mike James: It goes around the circle, and then you start finding this rhythm. with your crew on what it takes. I just I know a couple of guys, uh Timmy Clett Sons up in Baltimore City. Um and Chris Knight was a lieutenant up there. Things with a train division now, but we just had a guy, John McMaster, who was in that building collapse. And he's the only one that survived out of that. He came down to Orlando and talked and kind of became friends with him. And the stuff that he talked about that saved his life was a company officer when he first started talked to him about skip breathing. And he practiced it. And never for nine years, I think he was on the job before that building, or six years, nine or six, before the building collapsed on him. And the only thing that he says that he thinks saved his life, was remembering that company officer teaching him how to skip breathe. Corley: Wow. Mike James: Um so it doesn't have to be super advanced. But the solid the basic stuff has to be solid. You know, you want to be a tech rescue guy, man, you better be jam up on your gear, on writ, on your self-survival, mitigating any emergencies on you. Um before you become that.

Corley: Ooh, I love it. I absolutely love it, man. So many. Taylor Shepherd has another one. This kind of a uh Okay Wants to know, Chief, what is the bigger adrenaline rush? To come out of the bullpen and have a have a clean inning with a strikeout or two versus catching a good solid structure fire. Mike James: Uh man, I gotta say a fire site structure fire any day. I think if I was playing right now and I could be a fireman at night at or in the day before the games, I would, man, I that would be that would be the best of the best. Best of the world. If I could catch a fire either after a game or before a game, and I didn't know back then, but looking back, like Man, there's nothing, there's nothing like catching a fire. Corley: Right. Mike James: There's absolutely nothing. And the and the potential to perform at a level where you can make it like If I get, I came into a game against the Oakland A's with Ricky Henderson, Jose Canseco, Mark McGuire. There was two guys on second and third. I got out of that inning and I can remember it like today. But then I can go back and remember a fire and the feeling of that outweighed is almost like the baseball and the competing and getting to that. That was just that was almost like a stamp of like, hey, you did your work. Like You prepped and made yourself ready for that. And the fire has an aspect that's so dynamic to it that I'm prepped and ready for it, but it's a constant like change. And I gotta think. I gotta be ready to think And have so many other options in my head, plan A, B, C, D, and E. And then the self-rescue aspect of it that's always present. You know, what if this floor gives way? What if I lose my partner or what if this or that? There's so many aspects to it. Right. And I think that that adrenaline, that that aspect of it is Is pretty crazy. And maybe 25 years ago, if you asked me that, I've been like, oh man, coming, you know, saving a game or it could be different. But right now, in this point in my life, yeah, I'd rather catch a pet a pretty good fire.

Corley: No, uh they a great question, Taylor. I do. And and and that everything you said, the dynamics of it, the change of it, the adrenaline rush, all of it. Uh And putting in the work, I put in the work, I'm ready for this. Am I ready for this? What's gonna happen? All of that. Mike James: Uh, but I have no frame of reference for coming out of the bullpen to Don't get me wrong, coming out of the bullpen is something Corley: Oh, I believe that's why that's why I wondered. Mike James: I'm not downplaying it at all because it is a and in that is almost like a self-survival. Because if you don't perform, you're on the clock immediately. One bad game Okay, hey, we got some stuff to work on. Two bad games. They're like, oh, hey, that kid in AAA is doing pretty good. Three bad games, like, man, I might I might have to make some changes here. Like something's got to change. So it's that aspect of it. A lot of pressure. Yeah. The pressure and adrenaline from that is uh is pretty intense. Corley: And again, not downplaying it at all. I just I love that because I only have one perspective. So it's it's enlightening.

Mike James: For sure. Awesome. Corley: Uh Rob Fisher says, brother, did you ever wish that you skipped baseball so you could have got on the job sooner? Mike James: I bring that question up all the time. I'd have that conversation all the time. And I and I kind of like I just said I've I said I have this conversation, I've had this conversation through the years, and I don't know the answer to it. But I was like, man. What if I would have gotten to the fire service right out of high school when I was 18? You know? Sure. But I always look back, but that's I'm not gonna say regret, um, but it's tough to look back like that. Because I wouldn't give anything up for what I did. Um, but I also like I'm 17 years in, it's not a lot of time, but Man, like the people I know, like man, moving to New York or going to Boston or Miami, you know that like what was available to to on the on the on the horizon I could have done. You know, what if what if is basically the what if the what ifs will get yeah. And it's a lot of people. But talking, you know, I talk with Jim and stuff about this a lot. You know, and it's like it's not the the mental the mental side of it and like what I got to how I got to do what I did and what it took that That applies across the that that applies in what we do here. Um that applies in what else I would have done. It applied in baseball, it played in firefighting, it would apply to anything else that I I would have done. Um, so I don't know. Like I that's a really good question. And I asked myself that one a lot. And I have conversations with the guys I work with a lot about that

Corley: No, it's a deep question because it's introspective and the what if game and and and all of it. Because you you de- there's definitely no doubt that you were passionate about both. And and I wanted to ask you this. Well, hey, a couple things I wanted to say. Anthony Cast and Doni and Doni. Anthony Castros was the uh keynote that was referenced. with the uh paramedic can kill one he's coming on october seventh so mark your calendars anthony castro is coming back on the scrap october seventh so i wanted to do that tie in there but the other thing i wanted to ask you earlier You said that you know they put you in the room and said 1% of you are gonna make it out of the, you know, the bigs, out of this 250. And that's not even all the other teams in their 250s. Mike James: No, that's one percent of all the two fifty all of them. Corley: And so it's just it's that's it that blows my mind. But uh do you do you have any data on like is you s you you toiled away, you stuck with it for six years through the farm systems. Yes, sir. And do you have like what's the what's the average I don't I I don't know if you even know these kind of numbers, but what's the typical person gets drafted doesn't do well and how long do they last? Is it One and done, do most people make it two or three years? Do is it?

Mike James: Yeah, it's it's not long. Um there's career minor leaguers. There's guys that never make it and just do it because it's better than what they would have options to do outside of it. Corley: Better than framing houses or for sure. Mike James: Um but I don't I don't know the number on it. I just know it's not a lot. I know I was the only one in my draft class to make it to the big leagues So I do I do have some numbers on I was gonna bring I was gonna see if there's a window to bring it up and I think it is This is it. Since 1876, when baseball started, there's only been 23,114 professional Major League Baseball players. Corley: Oh wow. Mike James: When I came up to the big leagues, I was my number was sixteen thousand six hundred and twelve. So out of twenty-three thousand one hundred and fourteen players since eighteen seventy-six, I was the sixteen thousand six hundred and twelfth player. So just that number, like, that's not a big number, man. That's uh especially for all the junior college, high schools colleges, players, like I said, 200 guys of every single year and 30 plus teams.

Corley: 150 year history of the game. We're almost there. But yeah, no, it's crazy. Mike James: Really crazy. And I only found that number out because a guy up in Indy was you know asked me if I like bourbon. I was like, is there a fireman that doesn't like bourbon? And he's like, well, there's a he's like, man, there's a company that's called Field of Dreams. And maybe I'm giving them a plug. I don't know. But there's a company called Field of Dreams. They make bourbon from the corn from the field that they bought a they bought part of that field. Corley: Part of that field, okay. Mike James: And Andy Pettit, the left-hand pitcher for the Yankees, is part of that group. Um anyway, he told me about it. I was like, oh, look it up. So I got home, looked it up, saw it. I sent him an email. I was like, hey, this This is kind of unique. I was like, I used to play blah blah blah. A couple months later, forgot all about it. One of my daughters comes in, has a package that was at the door, and it was a bottle of the bourbon. I flipped it over. And it had my number. That's how I out of it said 16,612 out of 23,114.

Corley: Oh wow. Mike James: And that's how I found that. I was like, oh my gosh, that's That number kind of floored and then the back of the bottle had like Mike made Mike James made his uh debut at Toronto on May, whatever, April, whatever day it was. Corley: And that's pretty freaking cool. Mike James: It was pretty neat. But yeah, that's that but that number alone, like I don't I know it's not a lot. And my cousin My cousin from up in Tennessee, he used to tell me, like when I played these guys, man, you don't realize how unique it, he was like a baseball guy. He's like, you don't realize how unique it is, like what you've accomplished and I was playing so it was like okay like I'm I'm trying to stay here man I'm not like thinking like that um but when this came out he goes man that's what I was telling you about that's the stuff that's the number stuff I was trying to tell you He said of all the people in the world, he said that's he's that's not even like a 0. 001% of the population. Corley: Like it's such a-there's so many zeros. Yeah, it's such a minute number.

Mike James: Um, and it kind of that that kind of that number kind of stuck with me. I was like, man. Corley: No, that's cool, man. And be proud of it. Be proud of it. I know you're a humble guy and you're you you've always said you're not sitting there thumping your chest, but that's one to be proud of, bro. Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty cool. I'll give you permission. But my big question is, what did you do with the bottle? Mike James: It's I haven't opened it yet. Corley: Okay, I wondered. I wondered. Mike James: uh the second bottle we got had a guy on there from like 1944 was it this guy john something he got called up his number was 9332 i think it was And he only played one game. So those numbers aren't like guys that had careers. It's a debut number. That's you get that number just when you debut. So if you debut in the big leagues And you played one game like this guy. Um, you got a number. So that number even is even more. I was I was with my cousin. He's he's down here from Tennessee, him and him, his wife, and kids. And I was like, I wonder, he's like, I wonder how many of those 23,000 played more than five years.

Corley: Yeah, I was gonna say I would say actually got more than one season. That would be a good number to know. And then then five years, and then Mike James: He said he looked it up and he said it was less than 7,000. So out of that 23,000, less than 7,000 players played for more than five. Corley: Okay Mike James: So is even more unique. So yeah, that's uh pretty pretty crazy. Corley: Add a couple more zeros in there to get Oh, it's been a fun conversation. Uh I love asking this question and you gave me a long list. I did not print out the list. I didn't save it. So you're gonna have to go from memory of whatever you want to talk about, which of your favorites, but book or books that you think firefighters should be reading Whew. Mike James: I got a whole bookshelf back here, um right there, full of them. Um Man, I got it doesn't have to be firefighting books. Corley: It can be any book, anywhere. Mike James: To be quite honest, the most of the books that I read aren't firefighting books. They're they're personal development books, leadership books One of my favorites is The Wisdom of a Bullfrog by Admiral, Admiral Willie McGraven, the one that did the make your bed speech. That book, man, it is uh it's one of my top ones. And if you guys don't know what the Bullfrog is, it's the highest listed, enlisted, longest enlisted SEAL member. Bullfrog. Um when the guy the net the the most years in retires, the next guy becomes a bullfrog. And Admiral McRaven became the Bullfrog and wrote a book about his perspectives. Um and it's man, it's a it's a good one.

Corley: No, it's a great and and for all the firefighters out there, it is an easy read because it's small and it's bite-sized chunks. Each chapter is individual it's it's and each one is a it's a fascinating little story in in and of itself only a dozen stories in it i i would guess i i'm going from memory but Mike James: I think there's like twelve or thirteen chapters, which is a story about something different. Ones like the big green the long green table. Um yeah, he's got a bunch of different things and it's very easy to read and You'll come out of that book and be like, man, I gotta get I should have had a highlighter. I'm gonna go back in it. Corley: Yeah. Mike James: Get my highlighter out, go through it, which I did because once I got done reading, I'm like, man, that was full of meat. I need I need some of that stuff Um and went back and highlighted a bunch of that stuff. Anything anything by Deepak, I read a lot, I've read, I've been reading Deepak Chopra for a long time. His stuff on How you can mentally and physically be in tune down to like the molecular level of your body is pretty uh Pretty good stuff.

Corley: Okay. Did you have a favorite of his at all that you would plug or just anything? Mike James: I just about anything. I'd be honest with you. Just about anything from Deep is There's one it's called Soulmate. Um I made it halfway through that one. It was more of a book book kind of thing. Um but the other ones all the other ones are I actually want to go there and grab them now. I was gonna stack them over here, but I'm like, no, we got a list But um I'm currently reading one called The Emergency Mind, which is turning out to be really good by Dan Dwarkas. He's a MD PhD. And his last name is D-W-O-R-K-I-S, like D work is. So the work is the emergency mind. It's like It's about it. He was a physician, went through medical school, became a emergency room doctor, physician in like New York Um and he was taught his a lot of the book is talking about slowing down the process and the mental how you You know, when he first went in there and he's like watching these guys in high trauma situations operate at a level to where he was like so chaotic and how he's through his education and getting into it, how he slowed it down. I'm halfway through it and it's been, it's one of those books.

Corley: um the emergency mine it's really good good good no i like it i might might even order that one here as soon as the the scrap is over i mean like the Mike James: Think like a monk like Jay Shetty. Um trying to think of some of the others. I've kind of for some reason gone blank some of the books I got over there. But yeah, they're they're basically uh Personal development mindset type of books. Corley: Mental preparation and and making yourself a better human being? Mike James: Yes. Corley: Absolutely, man. And that that's my wheelhouse. That's what I love to read. So I love everything you said. You give people a lot to to take away from that. So we do a thing on the weekly scrap. It is the five questions for firefighters. We're getting ready to come out with the new five questions, but they're not ready yet. They haven't been released yet. But This is version 4. 0. The points are arbitrary, assigned by me, with the help of the audience, and there are no right or wrong answers. They're just your answers. And so just your opinions. So are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Bring it on. All right, here we go. You are the pro be once more at the firehouse. Be clear. You're the proby once more and you have to cook the meal for the firehouse. What's your go-to meal?

Mike James: Uh it's gotta be I yeah, it's gotta be it's gotta be steaks, vegetables, uh Caesar salad. Corley: Steaks, veggies, Caesar. Mike James: Fresh vegetables, uh good ribeyes, and a lot of Caesar salad. Corley: Nice, nice uh When you say fresh veggies, do you have a do you have a do you grill veggies? Do you saute? Mike James: What's your what's your I grill them uh and I saute them, but uh my go-to is uh squash, zucchini, and some onion With like sea salt, pepper, paprika, lemon pepper. Oh yeah. Corley: I think I might be hungry because now I'm getting Yeah, we do those uh we do those pretty often. Mike James: It's uh it's a good combo Corley: Can't go wrong with ribeyes, lots of Caesar, and of course when you say zucchini onion, uh squash. Yeah. Okay, perfect. Uh Max points coming out the gate May just be the description and the fact that I'm hungry, but you could get max points. Number two, it's job town. It's time. You're in route and responding. Just like the scene from Backdraft where he slaps the tape in there. What song are you playing while in route? Mike James: Oh man. Um first one that comes to my head would be uh Thunderstruck. A C D C.

Corley: Sam can let me know if that's been on the list. I'm not I I yeah, he says yes. Mike James: Awesome. Corley: But that's okay. That's okay. Cause it's just I I I like to let people know if it's a new song or if it's one that's that's been I mean I it's one of the best opening Yeah, riffs of all time. There's no doubt. As far as amped up. Mike James: It is uh the way it builds up and oh yes. It's it's pretty awesome. And quick story about that, when I first got called up, Bo Jackson was on the Angels when I I played with him. And when he came up the bat, that was his song and the stadium would go absolutely. Corley: Oh, I can only imagine, yeah. Mike James: So referencing that and if I could put that into a cassette in a fire truck, yeah, that would be awesome. Corley: Yeah. That's a unique perspective on it, man. I can only imagine. Whose boots? And max points, by the way, for Thunderstruck. Thank you. Whose boots, past, present, or future, would you like to spend 24 hours in? Oh gosh. Mike James: Past president. Well, I mean, first and foremost, probably the number one would be my very first hero, which was my dad.

Corley: Oh. Mike James: He passed away in 2012. Um I'd like to spend 24 hours in his boots back in the day. Just a hard, tough dude, like did stuff the right way, is like man's man kind of guy. Pass-wise, I'll be quite honest with you. Um I'll give you one for firefighting, one for base baseball. If you had Bob Gibson, he was a pitcher with the Cardinals. Come unbelievably dominant. Um I I would like to know what that level of perfection and professionalism and competition where he was at, what that was like. Because I know what it takes. That would it had to be because he was so dominant. Um And he was so he did it in like the old school kind of way. Um I would like to, I would, I wouldn't mind spending 24 hours maybe pitching a game as him. Spending that 24 hours. Corley: Seeing seeing his mind, his thought process. Mike James: Oh yeah, like going prepping for the game, going through the game and after the game. Um and the last one referencing firefighting would I could I called uh I called him today actually is uh Timmy Collette back in the day. I would love to be in his booths when he was running the Bronx down there, the first dude at the zoo on 88 engine. Um we we talk a lot. Um about what I did and what he did back then. And I would I would have loved to do 24 hours in his boots back then.

Corley: In his prime. Mike James: When he was the wizard of water running running it. That had to be. And he revered, he's like, Man, I'd love to spend 24 hours in your cleats, man. You know, when you were back in the day, I was like, so I think it that would be that would be that I would I don't know. I'll never know what that feels like as far as that like being in New York City down there like that and being at the level he was at. But yeah, that would be that would be kind of cool. Cool. Corley: I love all three answers. I really do. Normally I I'm like I take away points if you answer more than one, but I wasn't clear because they said past, present, future, and you answered it in that way. So uh absolute crushed it on that, crushed it on that. Uh I love all three and for the reasons you get. So it wasn't it wasn't like a wishy-washy answer that was very very concise very uh direct. Awesome. Um number four, okay, you are retired. You're sitting on the beach enjoying my ties. What do you want to hear through the grapevine that the people you used to work with, how do they describe you to the new hires?

Mike James: Holy cow. Um, well, probably along the lines of what we've been talking, the way of what I've been kind of portraying, just trustworthy, um, hardworking. Man, that dude gave a crap. Like he was a hardworking dude. Sometimes it's tough to be around him, but man, he supported us. Um, he always stood for what was right and he always strived to get better. Corley: Beautiful. No, and four for four max points. Easy, easy answers. I mean, not not easy answers. Easy to give out max points. Number five is The question that never changes. Heavy fire. Searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Mike James: Oh, PES for sure. I want to go through the window. Corley: Right on. Mike James: I want to get in the room, look down the hallway, find something, come out the window and have them in my arms and make a difference. Corley: I love it. I absolutely love it, man. No doubt. And it ties right back into like you talked about DJ earlier and the years and years and years. Yes. For the for the one chance And uh and multiple. But but uh no dude absolutely five for five uh crushed it crushed it. Well thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. And that officially, that officially puts 311 311 scraps in the books. Mike James, first of all, thank you for sharing your evening with us. It's been phenomenal. But if someone wants to reach out to you, ask you questions, get a hold of you, what's the best way to do so?

Mike James: I can shoot my email out there. I can even shoot you a phone number if you guys, I don't know how you guys operate like that, but um I don't mind. Um anybody has anything? Um I if you want to send me through email, I can give it to you. That's completely up to you. Corley: I mean if you want to, yeah. Mike James: I'll just spell it out. It's Ocean, O-C-E-A-N. D-W-L-E-R-M-J at AOL. I'm still hanging on to that AOL when it first launched back in the late 80s, late 90s. Corley: There you go. Huge. Yeah. Mike James: So yeah, again, it's it's Ocean Dweller M J, but it's O-C-A-N-D-W-L-E-R-M-J at AOL. Corley: Ocean Dweller M J At AOL. Which for those that don't know, AOL was a uh internet service America Online. Yeah. Okay, sorry. We'll show our age. Mike James: Right? But yeah, if you shoot me an email and and it get the context uh deserves or requires a phone, I'll I have no I have no issue texting, tall calling. Um, I would love to help anybody out. It probably helped me more than I'll help whoever's asking for any advice or perspective um that's usually how I I I took probably more out of this than a lot of people um just by having this conversation with you guys

Corley: Well, I've enjoyed the conversation. I know people enjoyed it, and I know more will as they listen to it. So thank you so much for uh sharing everything that you've shared this evening. Um, so there is a thing we do. It's called the scrap challenge. And basically I ask you to give a challenge to the listeners, especially the live listeners who have the full week to get it done, but everybody else that listens to the podcast A challenge from you to them that they need to accomplish before next week's scrap. Mike James: To accomplish before next week's scrap, um, go get a personal development book. Go purchase a book. Um search it out. There's so much personal development stuff out there. So much good stuff. So much. And it won't only affect your firefighting. It'll affect your person, your at home. um how you treat and understand um not just the personnel in the firehouse, but the people in your own house, the people you come in contact in your life. If you could Develop yourself personally through reading or or listening. Um man, start the journey. Start the journey this week, today, tomorrow, tonight. Get on Amazon. Um, I could You could probably get on uh Safari or something and type in personal development. And I'm pretty positive nine million, nine million matches will come up with material that you can get into. it it'll only benefit it'll only benefit you and if anybody if the challenge is man if you don't do that already even if you do it go get a new book um I got stuck in a in a in a in a lull there for a while where I was stuck on a couple books. Um and actually my wife was like, you're gonna are you gonna read I just carried around with me. She's like, you're gonna read that thing? I'm like Um yeah, I'm gonna get to it. Eventually. Don't worry about it. Eventually. It's become more of a thing now. But uh, but yeah, go get a book. uh get a get a get something to listen to but yeah do it and yeah start that journey because it uh it makes a difference and it may not seem like it but man There's a lot people a lot smarter and a lot done a lot of stuff, you know, a lot of stuff and have a perspective that can speak to you.

Mike James: And that goes back to the whole, you know, listening to the people that have that same language. And you start reading about these guys and what they're writing about, it's like Oh man, like that's kind of like what I think about, you know, and he's kind of explaining it. It's good stuff, as you well know. Corley: No, it's no, no, brother. I love it. I'm a huge fan of reading. Such, I mean, no, without a doubt. So I love that challenge. Mike James: Go get a book. Corley: Don't have to finish the book this week. You have to get one and then commit. Mike James: Just start the journey. You know, even if you just read the just read the introduction of it. You know, you got it and you read it and be like, okay, I'm gonna get into that this week or something Corley: Make the commitment. Mike James: I do got a quote I'd love to read before I know we're getting ready to get done. Corley: No, no, no, no. Go for it. Yeah. I don't want to cut. Mike James: So I got this one. Uh there's a there's some people in our company. My wife uh she does herbalife and uh there's some people, friends of ours that are really high up in the industry. This the lady named Amber Wick and Jason Wick. But she had she posted up a she posted up a quote and um I tagged onto it and I use it in my company officer teachings and stuff like that, especially up in Indy. But the quote goes like this, the buffalo fed on the buffalo grass that was fertilized by its own droppings. This grass was dry root, had deep roots. Bound to the earth and was resistant to drought. This guy's name was David Pete. Um, and this is what comes out of that. This is your reminder that messiness, failure, and clunkiness is part of the process The seasons of shit serve their purpose. Let them become the fertilizer for your success. So, you know, like, hey, getting a book is dumb or whatever it may be. Um, man. It may be crappy or it may be tough, and you may be in a situation with a company or a department where things are rough. Man, those just like the minor leagues were, those were needed just as much as the successes. And Tom Brady talks about this.

Mike James: Man, I learned more. I learned so much more from the failures. and the shortcomings than I did the successes that I those are just the rewards for the work that was put in. Corley: No, it's awesome, man. No, thank you for sharing the quote. And so I really do appreciate. In fact, you made my brain go, hey, should I ask, should I ask every guest to share a quote? You know, so that's where my brain's at, because I loved it, man. Mike James: I think a lot of I think a lot of firemen are quote-based. I do, because I We have a chalkboard for you know like the tuning and man up just about and I've seen it through other firehouses across the nation. There's always somebody that writes a little Corley: quote up there i'm a quote guy i love quotes i love good quotes i think i think a lot of firemen are okay now i may i'm i may have to work that into the five questions awesome uh i love it uh i'm trying to think i'm trying to my brain's going now my brain's off and running. Uh the last question I have for you that that is from me is is there somebody that you think should be on the scrap? I'm always looking to expand my network. And so

Mike James: Huh. I think all the guys that I know that I would suggest, I think, have been. Corley: And I know you can't know all 300 guests or all 250-ish guests, but Uh so yeah Timmy Clint has Jim McCormick has, and don't get me wrong, they need to come back too. So how about Aaron? Mike James: Has Aaron Rhodes been on Aaron? I don't know. No, no, I I Man, he'd be a good one. Corley: Okay. Mike James: Out of Orlando, assistant chief Aaron Rhodes. Corley: No, he has not been on. I know that. Mike James: So he uh He's man, he's one of those guys. I man, he's a super good friend. And man, he we have those deep conversations that elevate each other for sure Corley: I like the circles you run in and I like the people that you respect. And so I have I like if he gets the Mike James stamp of approval, then I'm gonna be reaching out. So Mike James: Yeah, give me a little bit. When he does, when you hear him, you're gonna be like, man, Mike, thanks for that. Because he's he's he's that good. Corley: Can I use you as the as the uh Okay, yeah, get me get me his info and I'll and I'll tell him that I got it from you so that you're my in-road and that way it's not just a cold call and we'll go from there.

Mike James: Yeah, he'll be uh yeah, he's a good one, man. The guys, the people on the people on the show will uh really appreciate him. Corley: Okay. I like it. I like it. All right. That brings us to housekeeping. Go to patreon. com the slash the vigilantes. Uh the Discord of course is amazing. It there's been so much chatter in the Discord today. People have joined up and there's been lots of uh is it I don't know the proper way to say gif or gif. I always forget which is the right way to say it. But it's pretty uh hilarious. Uh if you're looking for a place to connect with people like Mike was talking about today, the the birds of a feather that flock together, the vigilantes is a place to do it. And of course, if you're in the vigilantes, you get the after party, which is coming up. As we speak, Sam will be sending out the link. And that's where we're going to go in there and we're going to roast Mike for how he did on the scrap tonight So anyway, go become if you're not a vigilante, go become a vigilante. If you're not, why not? I always say that. Coming up on the scrap next week, it is Chief David Hageman. And there are a lot of people excited about that. I'm excited about that conversation. It's going to be fun. Following up, that on the same week is a special back to school special for the scrap. Thursday, August 7th, write it down because this one is not a Tuesday for scrapping. This is a back to school special, so it's not even a regular scrap. It is the one and only Chief Ike, Kurt Isaacson, making his return to the scrap. And he's doing the back to school special. And that's going to be uh, as always, something you do not want to miss. Enough jabbering from me. Mike, thank you once again for spending your evening with us and sharing so much. Your story, your journey, your mindset, all of it, man. It was a great evening, and I really do appreciate you.

Mike James: Well, I appreciate that, Corley. I really do. Thank you for having me, man. And I appreciate everybody out there. I hope that I had a little bit of something that might have stuck to the wall. Um I'm sure I'm going to think of just like all of us As soon as we get off, we'll probably think of 2,000 things we could have said or how we said it. I should have said, yeah. I think that's a that's we did the service justice because we've act if we could activate each other's thinking, we've done something Corley: That's me saying max points. He also got max points. I meant to do that while you were getting max points. It's supposed to flash, but right now. Mike James: I like bright lights. Corley: Absolutely. Uh audience, I I tell you every week, audience, thank you so much for showing up live. You were what makes the scrap special. Your your questions to the guests are always on point. And without you, the scrap would not exist. So thank you for showing up each and every week and making it the scrap. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tones stay silent unless it is burning This job is not safe. So everybody, stay smart out there.